Dr Causality

Very interested in the considerations that changed your mind about EA. Ping or PM whenever you find time to post about them.

Which clearly explains why Demons/Cold MM's are frequently used by the speed runners.

I have a 50 Ninja/Storm that I rolled because I had an idea and the test server was down (...the idea I wanted to test did not work...) Its still fun to play because I love the idea of Ninjas and Storm (thematically.) But in terms of performance: *Storm cannot softcap Ninjas. *Ninjas have very little resistance. *Storm has just a single target heal. *Ninjas are melee so can't shoot enemies while hiding inside the safety of your Hurricane. In sum: Prepare to re-summon a lot of Ninjas (unless you keep the difficulty settings low.). If you don't mind that, there's definitely fun to be had. But Ninjas are disappointingly fragile and no secondary fixes that. Storm's mitigation just isn't enough without an aoe heal. And once you're 50 any 2ndary can get KD mitigation from /Bonfire. Meaning sets with an aoe heal well be much sturdier then /Storm. /Time does the best to shore up Ninjas, with big Def buffs and aoe heals. Honorable mention to /Dark....

Yes it still Repels, but the KB->KD IO stops Hurricane from throwing enemies, so it does tame Hurticane's chaos a bit.

Demons/Time works very well not only bc /Time is so powerful. But also bc of the synchronicity of Def and Res sets:. /Time provides enough Def to softcap Demons. Demon are a resistance set, with Ember Demon providing even more +Res from Ember Shield. Demons/Storm is a strong pairing with insane damage potential, but will not be softcapped and will not be the same survivability wise. It's most noticeable for Solo play. on the other hand /Storm can softcap Thugs. Demons will have higher Resistance (including your MM) and Ember gives you an aoe heal. But personally if you want Demons, then I say go /Cold like Frosticus mentioned. ( /Cold can softcap Demons...) On top of that decide what playstyle you want for your MM like ranged vs melee, Tankermind etc. Demons are melee. Thugs being all ranged besides the Bruiser, with the new MM controls allowing ranged pets to stay on place, pairs VERY well with Hurricane. It's cheesy, but at least for leveling up you can park them in the back edge of your Hurricane, then use Provoke to get the enemies targeting you. Enemies will mostly keep hopelessly running at you and bouncing off the Hurricane without getting any attacks off. Meanwhile your Thugs will be shooting them like a day at range. Once you have aggro from Provoke you should be able to let the melee Bruiser rampage, since it's just him outside Hurricane your single target heal can top him off.

Because of the KB->KD proc Fire Mastery is definitely one of the top MM pools. It's not only great for soloing, but also adds the most team utility where you rarely need the additional Tankiness of the Epic shields. Side note: Personally I feel like the KD proc in Bonfire is a bit game breaking. Sonic is a good example. A tier one Epic power like Bonfire that's available to all MM's should not be better than Sonic's T9, but with the KD proc Bonsfire clearly is better. Bonfire with KD proc has close to the same mitigation as Liquefy, but it's 120s base recharge means you easily have it up every spawn, and high recharge builds can even stack it. Whereas liquefy with 300s base recharge is only good for special occasions...

It really depends on what playstyle you want. It's doesn't work nearly as well after the Fade nerf, but /Darkness Affinity can be played as an effective pet class. You can still get your team and pets: +26% Def and between +11% to +33% Resistance So if you fit the 4 Pet uniques in you can bump that up to: +36% Def and between +31% to 53% Resistance With Powerboost that used to mean full Soft Cap Def, so post nerf you probably need to go Hybrid Support now to make the pets as sturdy. This might not seem worth it at first glance, but it's not just Fluffy and Fly Trap, it also means sturdier Carrion Creepers and Lore pets, both of which can put out significant Dmg compared to most of your other Controller options. Between the burst debuff of -500% Regen from Howling Twighlight, and the periods of stacked 2 * -30% Resistances from Tar Patch, Banished Pantheon's Ravager has the DPS to solo most AV's, you just need to keep him alive... I'd rather play other sets like /Time after the nerf. But if was going to try to salvage and play my /Darkness Affinity character again I'd definitely consider going Soul Mastery for 'Dark Oblit' to stack more -Tohit and Summon Seer for another pet, offering more slots for all the pet IO's. It's a weird build but when you have Spirit Tree, Soul Absorption, Twighlight Grasp heal, buffed Dark Servant Heals, and the pets IO's stacked with all your +Def, +Res -Dmg, and -Tohit, all together your pets and Carrion Creepers become almost unkillable.

Mud Pots definitely feels worth having to me. It's a Mag2 Immob and slow. Slows seem to mitigate a surprising amount damage, because critters flip back and forth between wanting to run out of the slow and then wanting to attack whoever was slowing them....meaning they often just indecisively run back and forth rather than attacking. Since proc chances are low, and toggles only trigger every 10s, I slotted Mud Pots just for set bonuses and put procs into other powers that either have better chances to proc and/or better than 10s cooldown. Even unenhanced Mud Pots slow stacks with any other slows you have. Carrion Creepers have a good slow, and if you've taken Sleet you'll be stacking enough slow that critters can barely move near you...

It's surprisingly good mitigation. Slowed critters seem to I don't think either power is very good spot for the Fury -Res (or really any other procs that you aren't slotting just for the set bonuses...): Mud Pots should only have a 21.7% chance every 10s Word of Confusion despite a much smaller radius is not that much better at 30.7% every 10s.

I've been meaning to ask in Bugs if this is working as intended or a bug. But one interesting thing I found was /EA's +Absorb is not impacted by the caster's HP, whereas /Nature's is. The means HP buffs like accolades, set bonuses and even the massive HoarFrost Epic all boost /Nature's already bigger Absorb to even greater amounts. I dislike game mechanics that work inconsistently like that and it broke my heart for a Chill Mastery /EA build I'd worked out to leverage HoarFrost's HP boost on the assumption that Absorb functioned the same across sets. So I'm hoping it's a bug. But on the other-hand, if it's not a bug then it's at least some compensation for /Nature's much longer Absorb power cooldown... Whether bug or not, as the game currently works /Nature can reach a much much higher single Absorb shield amount than /EA, they just can't do it very often...(and from testing @SmalltalkJavadid previously there does appear to be an Absorb cap...)

It's not so simply or clearcut. The synergy of pairings changes everything and OP is looking to create a Duo with another character. It's not really possible to say what's best without knowing or considering the Duo character's powers. For instance: There's an incredible amount of Synergy between the Duo of /Cold and /Bio Armor. The +Def from /Cold means the /Bio will be able to reach softcap Def during leveling. Whereas on the /Thermal Duo the /Bio character will have to reach softcap Def on their own, so it will not be possible until much much later when they have enough power slots for a bunch of set bonuses and optimally can slot lvl 50 IO's. Similarly the /Thermal's Demon pets will have no chance of reaching softcap Def, whereas at lvl 50 the /Cold MM's Demon pets will be able to reach both softcap def AND very high Resistances with lvl 50 Pet IO's and 5% from Barrier... /Thermal's two heals are very nice to have especially at lower levels, and /Cold gets none. /Thermal has no way to fill in the +Def /Cold gets, but /Cold can fill in a single target heal with 'Aid Other'. This isn't so helpful for your 6 pets, but works well for your single Duo teammate. Further by the time they get DNA Siphon, a well built /Bio doesn't need much in the way of external healing. A much more synergistic Duo with /Thermal would be a /Shield Def Armor character. With no team +Def coming from /Thermal the Duo character will need reach soft cap defensive on their own, which will be much easier for /Shield Def, and possible to do far before /Bio could on it's own. Shield Def also doesn't have /Bio's Heal and level of Regen, so will benefit much more from /Thermal's two heals. And finally /Shield Def has 'Grant Cover' for a 15' radius team +Def buff, helping to fill in for /Thermal's lack of team Def buffs. But it's generally accepted that TW/Bio scrappers outperforms /Shield Def characters (/Shield being ahead in burst damage, but /Bio being ahead in overall survivability and sustained DPS...). Meaning that even if we accept that /Thermal is the best MM 2ndary (this is not my opinion), choosing /Thermal still leads to a compromise on the optimal Duo character pairing... It's all about the context: Demons are great and I think best overall, but Thugs are sometimes easier to build for or even outperform Demons in certain cases depending on 2ndary pairing and desired power choices. Thermal is a solid set, but there are reasons all the speed runners use /Cold instead. In this specific case: Getting no +Def team buff from /Thermal limits your optimal build and Duo choices. Sets that mix both +Def and +Res, like /Cold, /Dark, /Storm will be more versatile to build or Duo with and will outperform /Thermal in cases where the additional +Def makes it possible to reach softcap Def for either pets or your Duo teammate... That said a Duo with /Thermal MM + /Shield Armor melee character will do exceptionally well. And it might be a lot of fun to try pairing with the Savage/SD Stalker that Frosticus talks about.

Some good MM suggestions so far. But the pairing with your duo partner will matter about as much as the pairing between your MM primary/2ndary. Demons/Cold would be extremely powerful duo-ed with a TW/Bio Armor melee character. Both also solo well and are good enough individually to be borderline broken already on 50+ fully IO'd builds, but together would be an almost unfair force multiplier. Starting at low through mid levels /Cold fills in most of /Bio Armor's weaknesses. The duo would first come online at lvl 16 where Bio (scrapper/brute) gets Ablative carapace and /Cold could fill in Def from the Ice Shields, and Resistance to Elements, plus the Massive HP buff from Frostwork enhancing Bio's already decent Regen. Then at higher levels the Cold debuffs combined with TW's extreme aoe & single target dmg will make short work of AVs. Demons have their own team aoe heal, an aoe +Res shield, and are another source of -Res debuff, so are themselves another force multiplier further increasing the potency of the duo. TW/Bio scappers are best dmg wise. In general TW/Bio scrapper is accepted to be better, but Brute or Tanker might make a better duo with Demon/Cold. A brute or Tanker would be signficantly sturdier with more HP (higher HP Regen/s) and a higher 90% Res cap. But perhaps most importantly would have a bigger aoe taunt with a -Range component to help keep aggro off your MM and pets, making for an overall sturdier duo. For leveling the Tanker would defensively come online the earliest because they get earlier access to the Bio Armor powers (most notably being DNA Siphon at 18 instead of 28...and Ablative Carapace at lvl 8 instead of 16). /Cold already has a ton of -Dmg debuff, but another survivability advantage to Brutes/Tanks is access to Darkest Night from the Patron Pools for stacking another -21% Dmg, and some -Tohit. All told the Duo should neuter most AV's. The biggest challenge the duo will have while leveling will be endurance on the TW/Bio character since TW is very End hungry. This will get better once they get DNA Siphon (Scrapper/Brute lvl 28, Tanker lvl 18) but for leveling builds, the MM may want to try picking up Experimental Injection and/or Victory Rush from the Pools. Since Cold doesn't have a heal you may also want to pickup Aid Other for the lower levels to help the Bio Armor character until they get DNA Siphon and later Parasitic Aura. You'll also both want to take Maneuvers to stack for each other and the Demon pets. Both characters will benefit a great deal from +Rech, so will need Hasten and one of you will likely want to pickup up Ageless when you unlock Incarnates. Ageless Radial would give resistance to Defense Debuffs that Bio and Cold lack, so would be ideal if you can do without the +Recovery of Core... The only drawback would be if you two don't want to play a more traditional team style, with a lead aggro holding melee character and a support (buff, debuff, add damage character...) Beyond that it they would be an absolutely OP duo. *Edit* If you decide to go with this duo reply back for some tricky build ideas to help out while leveling...

While there's great thematic synergy between bots/EA, there's sadly no where near as much actual strategic synergy. But depending your expectations there are ways to work around some of that lacking strategic synergy. What were you hoping this character would be able to do, that it's not doing? And what's the general build and play strategy you're using?

That was part of point of me doing this. Everyone seems to immediately accept how powerful IO's w/ set bonuses are. But when discussing re-balancing, it seems common to head straight to nerfing "overperforming" sets with no mentions of the Incarnate elephant in the room. Incarnate powers, particularly with the level shift are nearly as massive a powerboost as IO's, and nerfing over performing sets is not going to magically rebalance pre-incarnate PVE content. As for doing this without Incarnates. It's probably possible at +0/+4 or lower, but would be very tough at even +0/+8.

Does anyone know if global accuracy (from set bonuses) is passed on to psuedo pet summons like Carrion Creepers? My experience from MM pets, was they do not get your global bonuses for accuracy or damage, so my hunch was psuedo pets wouldn't either...

Close enough to not matter, but it's weird we're getting different numbers. I thought maybe it was ArcanaTime, but testing that gave me a 3rd number 40.63%. Now you got me worried the formula in the spreadsheet I made is ever so slightly wrong. Here's what I was plugging in: Range: 50 Arc: 35 Cooldown: 32s Activation: 2s (not the 2.244 ArcanaTime...) PPM: 2 Recharge: 33%

Thanks you two. Those are good clarifications I should have mentioned. This was a pretty easy calculation since you can get it with just (1-chance of no procs), so hopefully I got this one right. But my math is rusty**, so probably best to check me on anything that matters. 😉 (**So rusty that people that weren't born yet when I last tutored stat, can now legally drink!)

Makes sense. The difference (besides damage) is just that Overwhelming adds a chance for KD. But in Bonfire I suspect that would only get a chance to proc once every 10s, so the impact would be negligible.

Didn't realize this changed the pulse frequency. Is it the same for both the Overwhelming Force and Sudden Acceleration?

If what you mostly care about is +Recharge and you already have the Mace Mastery Epic you might as well pick up Mace Beam Volley to slot a Force Feedback Proc. The long 32s cooldown means if don't slot for +Rech enhancement, then even with the FF proc's low 2PPM and large aoe cone it still haa a 52% chance to proc on each enemy in the cone. Even with the penalty from the 33% Rech you get from Alpha Agility it would still be a 40.29% change. You only need it to proc on one enemy to get the full 5s of 100% Recharge bonus. And with you're 270% global Recharge has Mace Beam Volley is down to 8s cooldown. So every 8s you'd have this chance of getting a 5s 100% Recharge buff depending on number of enemies hit in the cone: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 0.403 0.643 0.787 0.873 0.924 0.955 0.973 0.984 0.990 0.994 Massive +Rech buff you're will to spam Mace Beam Volley. I guess tough choice would be what power to drop to pickup Mace Beam Volley... Biggest problem I think you'll have is with this intense Recharge you won't have the Endurance to spam costly attacks like Empty Clips or Mace Beam. So you'll need to heavily slot those for End Reduction. PS: BGSacho is giving good advice about Dmg Procs and a LOTG in Enforcers. Definitely worth giving up the 6.25% Rech. I'd say same for Bruiser since he crushes with an Explosive Strike Dmg Proc and SouldBound Allegiance +Chance for Buildup. PS 2: Didn't look to close, but saw some places you can save some money on your build. Can switch the costly PVP Hold set you have in Distortion Field for 4 x Basilisk's Gaze for the same 7.5% Rech, that should save you at least 40 Mill. It also could either free up a slot or If you still wanted the Dmg proc, that would let you put any hold dmg proc in and then upgrade later to the Purple Hold proc that does more damage and has better proc chances, once you have the money. Similarly you can swap the costly Panacea PVP sets for Doctored Wounds. That swap would make you lose 2.5% Recharge each set, but would save you like 120 Mill of PVP IO's...

I too was really sad when I first found that set bonuses from Heal didn't buff Regen, but I think it's working as intended like Trickshooter and Vanden are saying. In trying to think through why it might have been designed that way, I realized how OP Powerboost would be with click type Regen powers. I'm guessing that's why Healing bonuses don't apply to Regen powers. Until the Clarion Incarnate this wouldn't have impacted Brutes/Scrappers. But imagine an Empath's AOE Regen Aura's base 500% Regen boosted by the 122.9% Powerboost controller Epic and then slotted for another 500% from enhancement, making for a perma aoe team Regen buff totaling 1613%. And now with Clarion even a two Regen Brute/Scrapper team that both took Clarion could synchronized Powerboost together for a 2 * 70%=140% Powerboost of their Regen powers...

Are there any primary sets or attack chain tricks that make the redraw less painful on the Mace Mastery Epic powers: 'Mace Beam' and/or 'Disruptor Blast'?

Lol at least get one set with a heal. Like Dixa is saying a MM is never going to have the degree of Taunt a Tanker or even Brute will have, so will never be able to hold aggro as well. But for casual play 2 x Thugs will be sturdy enough once you get your Enforcers slotted with some +Def. If you decide to take Provoke from the Presence Pool so you can Taunt on a MM, keep in mind that it needs both Taunt and Accuracy slotting, without that it will miss and the duration will be too short to be useful....

If you decide to duo, a 2 x Thugs MM team is very powerful because the pet's leadership Def buffs from their Enforcers stack to all the Thugs. It's strong enough that as long as one of the two you have a heal you'll be able to cruise through missions, regardless of what 2ndaries and pools you pick.

Unless I'm missing something Ageless won't help enough: Doms and ILL controllers using only SO's, so missing out on +Rech bonuses from IO's sets, will have to deal with significant downtime gaps in either Domination or PA. How or where are you calculating those cool down times? I'm asking because Mid's is bugged, in that uses the max +Rech bonus from Ageless as though it were up permanently, even though that full bonus actually lasts for just 10s. Napkin math leads to think the expected global Recharge impact for T4 Ageless should actually be around 21% over the entire 120s duration. I tend to round that down to 20% for simplicity and also give a nod to the inevitable tiny gaps between activating either Ageless or Hasten. (Even this is very optimistic because you can't have them both on auto, and even on auto another power with a long activation time can easily delay the auto-activation couple seconds.) So for simplicity plugging in two extra Purple sets in Mid's will give a good best case estimate of what Ageless will contribute to cool downs of other powers. Based on that with just Hasten and Ageless (no other +Rech bonuses or buffs) that would put: 3 slotted w/ +3 SO's Hasten 36.7s short of being perma. Losing Hasten's 70% recharge for those 36.7s means the other cooldown numbers shown in Mid's will actually be higher... But Domination is already 15.3s short of perma when Hasten is up perma....so the real downtime amount is actually worse. PA is an even higher bar, so three slotted with 3 x 38% SO's it has downtime of 23.56s, which will again actually be worse because of the 36s Hasten will be down... So what if we also use the Alpha Spiritual for the 45% Recharge bonus part of which goes past ED? Might as well 6-slot Hasten while we're at it... 6-Slotted w/ Spiritual Core Paragon, Hasten still has a downtime of 14.3s. But once every long while the additional 60s of 100% Recharge bonus from 'Gees of the Kind' plus Ageless seems like it would still let you chain together Dominations or w/ Alpha Spiritual two PA's. So you if you can finish AV off in two back to backs, then maybe you're still fine?