Puma

OK. That makes sense. Do you see what WindDemon is showing about the chain lightning getting weaker with each jump, btw? Im going to assume the going between 210 and 206 deals with resistance differences (one type probably had a small energy damage resistance). Its first hit is 350, second is 275, and the rest go back and forth between the 206 and 210.

Blasters get crits? Are you thinking of Scrappers? Blasters get a +dmg from each successive attack. They don't get crits.

Ok so the debuffs are even worse than I thought unless I'm spamming Storm Blast attacks. So I don't get how it's not an inferior power UNLESS you are following it up with Storm Blast attacks. It basically looks like it just trades its damage in exchange for just being the weaker secondary effects of the Ice and Dark AoEs. So to me, anyway, that makes it feel like, yes, you are sacrificing damage if you go to any other attack, at least compared to any other sets whose AoEs (which ALSO offer better versions of those debuffs) do that potential damage and debuffing entirely on their own. I dunno. That's my experience. I'm glad you like the set, but I can't get it past the early 30s without hating it, and even on test when I went to full tricked out 50s found it lacking against AVs and other tough opponents compared to other sets. I refused to pair it with Storm because I knew storm could cover up a lot of the issues because storm is so incredibly and dealing out its own damage AND debuffing enemies on its own.

Correct me if I'm wrong (it's entirely possible I am): With no procs, Storm Cell only does just one thing: activates the windspeed psuedopet, which does the following: PvE Only 100% chance -70% maximum RunningSpeed (all affected targets) for 8s PvP or PvE 100% chance -28% JumpHeight Strength (all affected targets) for 8s -14% RechargeTime (all affected targets) for 8s -28% RunningSpeed, FlyingSpeed, JumpingSpeed (all affected targets) for 8s -9.8% ToHit (all affected targets) for 8s So you get a set of debuffs similar to Ice Storm (only weaker) or Rain of Fire, but with a small -tohit thrown in in place of the damage (less -tohit than any of the dark blast attacks, for example). To get it to do any damage you must follow it up with storm blast attacks. To get it to drop the Tempest Psuedopet for 2 seconds you need to use storm blast attacks, which will then add another 4.9 percent -tohit, for a total of 14.7% tohit if you're spamming Storm Cell attacks. Is that correct? If I drop Ice Storm I get PvE Only 100% chance -350% maximum RunningSpeed (all affected targets) -30% FlyingSpeed (all affected targets) for 0.5s -40% JumpHeight Strength (all affected targets) for 0.5s -10% RechargeTime (all affected targets) for 0.5s -40% RunningSpeed, JumpingSpeed (all affected targets) for 0.5s but also get quite a bit of damage over time no matter what I do next.

No. Read the the thread please. Someone made a bad comparison that they should demand healing aura do damage otherwise it's costing them to use it. I explained why that comparison makes no sense.

I posted detailed comparisons in this and other threads. It's not based on "feels." In THIS thread we've discussed end costs, damage totals, duration, etc. We had one Dev in Beta who responded very well and was open to the concerns. We've had two chime in on this and another thread defensively and dismissively, which, frankly, tells me how much they appear to be interested in what is being said.

Healing Aura's damage isn't linked to using other powers from that set. It heals just as it should regardless of what you follow it up with. That is the difference. for your comparison above, where you say "missing a chance for a proc because you used [another ability] doesn't mean you missed a proc, it means you received whatever benefit that other power had, to be accurate, Healing Aura would be balanced around Heals Over Time, but that healing over time would only happen if you continue using other healing powers. The minute you attack, it would stop. Which would mean that, yes, it means you've missed healing from a power you already cast.

Fireball doesn't "chain" and thus doesn't have the weird chance to basically do little to nothing like Chain Lightning. And cloudburst takes an entire second longer to do far less damage, according to your numbers above. Meanwhile Fire also gets Rain of Fire, which does pretty solid damage. And sure, Storm Cell does more debuff...but if that's its purpose, even then High Winds is only triggered when you're following it up with more Storm Blast attacks. You're literally proving his point. But this conversation clearly isn't going anywhere.

Don't forget that other AoEs also have mitigation. Ice Storm does quite a bit of slow and distracts foes. Several cone attacks do knocback/knockdown, Psy Tornado does knock up, Sonic's cone does sleep, whirlpool does slow, etc. And none of those do any less if you follow them up with your secondary powers instead of your primary.

To be fair, Blizzard (which you used as a comparison) is the same in this regard. While it's capped at 16 targets, as targets die, it keeps dishing out full damage as long as more are running into the field of affect.

Yeah! It's the "this cottage was built last week!" rule. 😕 One argument made for changing Intensify during beta was that Storm Cell's accuracy was tied to the player's, not at the time of casting, but all the way through. So once you lost the to-hit boost from Intensify, so did the lightning strikes in storm cell. At that time it had a base accuracy of 1.x so it meant end game stuff was going to get missed a LOT by Storm Cell. I believe that was upped to 1.4 or so for lightning, and the winds were made autohit? I can't recall right now and can't log in to find out.

First, thanks. Second,. again, you're assuming that the caster is doing nothing but spamming Storm Blast powers this entire time, which has been a huge part of my problem with the set, as explained here. I can think of no other set in the game that has made me feel like I can't use any of my other attacks or I'm missing out. Am I correct that you're also basing these numbers on it being three slotted for damage? I think we should be using non-enhanced numbers when we compare powers, personally. As I said above though, Cat 5 is the least of my concerns with the set. I think Storm Cell is the real issue. Just for clarity's sake, none of the above affects and numbers of Cat 5 require Storm Cell to be active, do they?

Can you show me how to quantify that? Since I'm going by what the character creator says, I don't know how you factor in "chance to do x" damage. Especially give the fact that a big part of my point is it's the "chance to cause lightning and high winds" that -locks you into focusing on your storm blast set- to the exclusion of your other sets. I mean, we can't just go with it's chance to proc over 30 seconds, because for that we have to assume you're ONLY using Storm Blast and never stopping to heal or buff others, or drop debuffs, or using secondary or patron or APP powers, etc. And then, of course, you also have the total damage likely lessened by the fact that during its 30 seconds dealing its damage your team is killing a bunch of the mob, too, but since they're dying, that's a lesser issue except for points of comparison. I know you're a numbers guy so you may have a way in mind that makes sense, though.

https://cityofheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Pseudopet Storm Cell is a pseudo-pet. It's a non-targetable, invisible pet that creates an effect. Tornado from Storm, is ALSO a Psuedo-pet, by the way, even though, like Storm Cell, it moves from one target to the next. And just because you don't use a power like Carrion Creeper doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and like other psuedo-pets, is a point of comparison. And while your last paragraph makes it sound the best it possibly can, you ignore (as you have this whole discussion from multiple people) the downfalls to it, as well as the other powers you mention being balanced around being used in Storm Cell and have some real weaknesses without it. And actually, it's GREAT that you bring up that's Creepers aren't a blast set. Neither are Tornado, Lightning Cloud, etc. That makes it even weirder that the blast set of storm has it's key power be a power that's default is NOT doing damage, but doing mild to low end debuffs. I looked and I can't find another blast power that does no damage on its own and only debuffs, much less one of the typically three aoes blast sets get. And before you jump, I'm not saying you need to "homogenize" the set, I'm saying that this design choice seems odd, and weakens the set overall when it doesn't have to. It costs more cast time than most AoEs other sets get, yet on its own, it doesn't do any damage and doesn't really do much debuffing without applying other blasts. Even then it doesn't suddenly become a top performer. It's a Psuedo pet that requires you to focus heavily on your other Storm Blast powers just to come up to par with other AoEs in blast sets. And it's worse because those other powers aren't very good without it, so it's not like you can just skip it in your build like you can other pseudo pets or AoEs. I get it, you like the set. Cool. But the OPs issue with cast time is a real one, as are the other issues brought up here are, I think legitimate.

Ok, 1st, "moving to you or the target" is shifting the goalposts, and since nothing anyone here has suggested would alter that, I'm not sure what your point is. And yes, Storm Cell is a pseudo pet just like the others mentioned. And as pointed out, Voltaic Sentinel does follow. And if you really need an EXACT 1-2 comparison, creeper vines does immediate damage, amps up more damage as it goes, AND follows, and in no ways requires you to keep attacking with plants to make it work its best. But again, this is sde tracking and shifting the goal posts to something no one is arguing. And you misunderstood what I meant about Storm Cell and your point showing that it relied on Storm Summoning to supplement it. While you're right, you might get lucky and your first attack triggers a lighting strike, the next attack WONT trigger any more damage from it unless you're sticking with a Storm Blast attack. But with Ice Storm, etc. I can switch to a secondary attack and it's still doing its damage. That causes a "tax" on using your secondary powers where doing so means Storm Cell will NOT do its optimal damage. And if it DOESN'T trigger lightning on that first attack...well...that's even worse, no? And also, if nothing anyone is proposing would "homogenize" the set or make it function just like the others, what are you arguing against? So far all that's been suggested is lowering the costs of these two unique powers and and improving their upfront or total damage possibilities to deal with their uniqueness. Is it just the fact that you disagree with the OP and I about how fun the set is currently? Ok. Fine. But nothing we're suggesting would take away that fun for you, would it? And yet we're saying it WOULD increase the fun and utility of the set for some people. Do you disagree with that? If not, then why argue about making the set better for those of us with problems with it if it wouldn't alter what -you- love about it much and wouldn't really move it from the center of the pack in the end, anyway?