Griffinmills

Count me in as missing this nice QoL! Thought might account got hacked or something...

Been dutifully reading this thread since its inception. Lots of good stuff posted on all changes on all sides. Regarding bruising, it struck me that maybe the wisest thing, if not the smartest or most mathematically correct or perfectly balanced thing, would be to simply leave it in as it existed on Homecoming before these tank updates were being tested while still moving forward with all the existing changes/buffs. Some people who side in favor of its removal have put forth variations of the argument that it was already pretty minor or a consolation prize, etc. in an attempt to convince fans of keeping or expanding Bruising that they are being myopic or foolish or fear change, etc. If they are correct in this (that it is minor) then just leave Bruising in, as is on live and in addition to all current changes, and not worry about a, to whatever degree more or less minor sized, balance issue. Seems a decent compromise between those that want it expanded/improved and those that want it gone entirely without throwing away all the rest of the updates and we don't lose a minor but historic aspect of Tankers. All at the cost of just being the bigger person and being tolerant of a little balance/imbalance. I'm sure somebody will now post how Bruising is game-breaking-ly amazing in some excellent way! 😁

Thank you for all the help duders, it's appreciated.

This argument won't be compelling until it takes longer than a few minutes to reach their funding goal. Based on July's goal, they need 200 people to donate 20 bucks. They had 188 people donate an average of 30 bucks in July in less than half an hour. and crushed the goal. There are right now 5031 people logged in. There is absolutely zero evidence that this scenario is on any horizon...certainly not enough to justify making changes based on financials. Even though my natural inclination is to be pessimistic, I agree. I think Justice Believer put it best a few pages back.

Went through and checked all "Normal Enhancements" one by one by Origin, including Training. Also checked all "Special Enhancements" by checking those listed under Accuracy, Damage and Endurance Reduction which I believe covers all Hamidon and Titan enhancement varieties. For ease of sorting I had the filter set for levels 50 to 50 while doing this, hopefully that didn't eliminate anything? I still saw things like the Penelope Yin store listed so, fingers crossed. For each category (eg: Enhance Accuracy) I would bid 1 inf on each of the 3 available enhancements (eg: Magic->Crowley's Ring, Insight of Grey and Visor) then hit the Find button a few time to help make sure the displayed results were accurate. I took screenshots of anything suspicious and will transcribe them below. The nature of the market and this bug means these are all eyeballed guesses without doing more intense testing. I'll list the ones that seem very likely first with a few that I don't really think are this bug at the end. I actually tested this one in the sense I had outstanding bids higher than 20,000 Basilisk's Gaze: Accuracy/Endurance Reduction/Recharge/Hold 20,000 3,500,000 4,000,000 20,000 20,000 This could be legit, the bid history are all 2 days old, only suspicious for the fact people are bidding 2 million on a tech/sci DO! Transmatrix Bipedal Amplifier (Run) 50 2,000,000 2,000,000 2,000,000 2,000,000 1,700,000 A Natural/Magic DO with none listed and nobody bidding, history all from "today." Nectanebo's Work (Endurance Modification) 50 500,000 500,000 100,000 500,000 1,000,000 A Mutation/Science DO again with zero bids and available going for ~2 million and all from "today." Molecular Bonding Resistance Boost (Resist Damage) 50 2,000,000 2,000,000 2,222,222 1,555,555 2,000,000 This has GOT to be suspicious! You can't even sell common Sleep IO's, like, at all but this SO is going for 10's of millions all "today?" Evolution: Neural Paralysis (Sleep) 50 13,500,000 15,000,000 13,000,500 13,000,500 15,000,000 How about Training enhancements going for millions! These were all sales from, "today." Training: Damage 50 8,0555,555 9,000,000 8,000,000 7,000,000 7,500,000 These were all sales from, "today." Training: Fear Duration 50 2,000,000 2,000,000 2,000,000 2,000,000 2,000,000 These were all sales from, "today." Training: Jumping 50 10,000 100,000 100,000 100,000 100,000 These few are questionable but I'll list them just in case. Dam/Mez Hami's, this could just be normal market fluctuation but thought I'd list it. Gluon Exposure (Dam Mez) 50 1,000,000 1,000,000 67,000 67,000 1,250,000 Another Hami that could just be fluctuating wildly, all "today." Anti Proton Exposure (End/Def Debuff/ToHit Debuff) 50 2,100,000 5,000,000 5,000,000 10,000,000 16,000,000 Third Hami, same deal but sales were spread with 3 today and 2 yesterday. Electron Exposure (End/Res) 50 1,321,415 5,555,555 7,000,000 6,100,000 Natural Recharge SO, could just be regular shenanigans. Military Speed (Recharge) 50 2,222 2,222 100,000 5,000 5,000 Some passing thoughts. There doesn't seem to be any obvious pattern, at first with the two damage SOs showing signs I had some hope but then I didn't see a single issue with any Technology SOs? There isn't a single SO or DO for sale that I could buy for 1 inf. =) The searching goes a little quicker than you might think since DO's share origins. Since I didn't find an obvious partner to the Basilisk's Gaze IO I'm wondering if it isn't just linked IOs and SOs but possibly recipes or something else like inspirations etc? I will try to do a pass on the IO side of the equation when I get some time to help narrow down the candidates.

I wasn't bidding on the Trap of the Hunter, I was selling. The two sales I had were for 2M and 1.5M, but they were several days prior to that screenshot. I'm sure the devs would love to hear about the bug. I hope they can fix it. That Transmatrix SO you mentioned definitely seems suspect. Bidding or selling I think works out either way for our purposes. Thanks!

Heck yeah, it's really a pretty great little tune up to the new market vs. the old market. It's a great feeling when you realize just what you can do with all these new tools and it starts playing out. It really smooths things out.

Thanks again Adeon. I'm working on a few others I've found like this, will post more later today or Sunday.

I saw this too, with a Stalker ATO. Another forumite, AboveTheChemist, managed to find that a Xenon Damage SO at level 50 was sharing history with the ATO. History only though, not actual bids and transactions though. I'm looking around to see if I can find the linked item with Trap of the Hunter right now. Link to forum post.

Now we're cooking! I too see that Xenon Exposure (Damage) at level 50 seems to share history with Assassin's Mark: Recharge/Chance to Recharge Build Up which is only available as an attuned. I even bought and sold a few Xenon to double check and the histories of both reflect the sales of each. Great that someone found the exact scenario going on with the Stalker ATO, tyvm AboveTheChemist. The Trap of the Hunter scenario could be similar? The sales history (for Immobilize/Accuracy) is consistent across all the levels it is available (20-50) and is the same as what is displayed for the attuned version, so far so good. Some going for 780, 1050 or 1200 while others go for 1,000,000 is fishy-ish too. Do you have outstanding bids that were higher than these winning bids as I mentioned in the Stalker ATO scenario, AboveTheChemist? I'll poke around and see if I can find another SO with identical listings to the Trap of the Hunter. Wonder if we can report this bug with the Homecoming devs and get it fixed without breaking anything? Thanks again! Edit: Did a quick once over of all level 50 Science SOs, putting up a 1 inf bid and hitting FIND as an attempt at making sure they were somewhat accurate histories. So far the only other suspicious entry I've seen is "transmatrix bipedal amplifier (run) 50" has history with 4 listings of 2 million and one listing of 1.75 million with no bids and one available, that is probably (?) linked to some other item I would guess? Will look at some more later, it's IRL fireworks time.

Thanks Adeon! It's fishy for sure but odd that it's, for the moment, restricted to just this IO. Unless anyone else is seeing it elsewhere?

I do plenty of marketeering but don't see this exact bug, doesn't mean it isn't a thing though. I had a similar guess on the zero truncation but agree that it is unlikely to be that either due to the amounts shown unless they are completely broken entirely. I've tried the "1 inf" trick and know when to use it to fix THAT issue, thanks though! Can someone else look at the history and tell me what they see maybe? I see the same exact history on this and my wife's account. It currently reads (as of 4:25pm Pacific, July 7th) 9,000,000 5,000 5,000 9,000,000 8,000,000 This is using separate accounts on separate computers. I guess in the end if it truly is "broken" it doesn't matter what anyone sees? Edit: To clarify, I'm not saying "y'all are wrong!" I'm more interested in what the exact bug is. It is not the "put a bid to fix the display" bug and it seems to be, whatever is wrong, consistent across multiple PCs and accounts.

I thought I knew how the consignment house worked and that thought lined up with what has been stated in this thread. Then I put a long term low ball bid out on the ATO Assassin's Mark: Recharge/Chance to Recharge Build Up (Stalker). The last five were 8,000,000 8,000,000 10,000,000 9,000,000 8,000,000 with seven available so I put in a bid for 7,000,000 and went back to playing. A day later the history then read (pic attached) 10,000,000 5,000 5,000 5,000 10,000 (with none available) Then a little while later (took a pic but forgot to do screenshotui) 5,000 5,000 10,000 10,000 10,000,000 (with one available) currently it reads 9,000,000 8,000,000 8,000,000 8,000,000 5,000 (with two available) What is the scenario where someone was able to bid 10,000/5,000 and it was a winning bid over a standing bid for 7,000,000?

Bit of an old thread but boy I'd love someone to chime in and at least try to clarify the unclear reasons!

I liked the post from Golden Azrael style so I'm going to steal crib it! Starting with some more global topics though. 1. Let's keep trying to hear each other out and not get too worked up. Actual testing, test experience, feedback and suggestions being shared is far more valuable and constructive than sniping (ha) back and forth and being smart asses. Mostly doing good here and papa is proud! 2. The "formula" as a justification for nerfs/buffs. Having some kind of baseline and a mathematical way of getting there is a really good idea. We also know that, sometimes, the formula fails somehow. It can be a case of, "you can do everything right and still be wrong." We know from live servers that a perfectly, formula correct, power ends up being "bad" or "skipped." Thus it's okay to break the formula rules from time to time, just be judicious and examine the "why." #2 brought to you by, "City of Blandness here we come." ;D 3. The original CoX developers went out of their way to maintain feel and not change things up too badly for existing fans/players of power sets and archetypes when changing things. There are exceptions of course. Following this example is commendable. Along these lines, I love the efforts to retain slow snipes and allow for the availability of fast snipes being shown by the Homecoming team please maintain this drive as an ongoing effort! 4. Dominator snipes are currently eating a nerf and there are at least 4 posts in this thread alone unhappy about it. I have to echo the feeling expressed of, "Just leave them alone." At least in the spirit of #3 above. It seems like, at least, there are the tools to modify the fast snipe version to be in line, damage wise, with current snipe balancing, go with that if you can. 5. Having just leveled a Traps/Beam on live, trying to use a lot of Trip Mines (similar power with a cast of 5 and interrupt of 4 seconds) on teams I can strongly agree that it probably could go a full second faster. Also, still not sure it needed to eat a defiance tweak with all the talk of /Devices under performing. 6. Total Focus is an attack with a keen animation and great sound effects. For what I see as over zealous balance reasons it was hit with the nerf bat on its mag 4 stun long ago. This was after and in addition to ED hitting it hard so now it is sort of a why bother pick. Regardless I still take it on my Ice/Energy Blaster main. I really like the animation and sound hopefully whatever tweak is applied can retain some semblance of the "oh here it comes" feel. Or just put the stun mag back up and crank the damage to make it "worth it" on hard targets? 7. This is super true. As mentioned above, I just leveled a traps/beam on live and using up a full slot for -kb and another slot for Interrupt reduction leaves little flexibility for set bonuses especially since it is not compatible with any sets that have Interrupt reduction. And if you go less than 6 slots..? oof! 8. Novacat bringing it again. Some of the animations in Beam are really rough (as in, I can't tell that they actually fired and don't see damage numbers) when chained as well. Not much to add, more of an I agree and hope it can be addressed. 9. Glad to see considerations for this kind of thing. Currently the Consignment House lets players game the system on Attuned enhancements by listing regular IOs and buying that same IO as an attuned IO making the purchasing of Enhancement Catalysts a bit of a mugs game in most scenarios at their current merit price. It's more complicated than that so I'm not sure what exactly should be done. 10. Hear hear! Don't tweak the game and game play styles into oblivion chasing balance. Awesome! 11. Holy moly what I wouldn't give to have my Energy Melee brute back from the Nerf Retirement Castle. Anything I can say, do or pay to get Energy Transfer back to the Power Thrust animation era alone would be worth it. ;D ;D 12. Another one where I have nothing to add but my love and support. Poor Jack, I loved him more because he was trying his best rather than being amazing. 13. Strongly agree, reducing the recharge by half would make it a lot more tolerable leveling, pre-io, and pretty much a non-issue after. It will still be a QoL thing to have to retoggle it though every time to the point where you'd probably want a toggleon combo bind in your basic attacks because it is super important. Would it break balancing to flag it as non-dropping? Keep up the great conversation everyone, look at the results of just a little testing and feedback. Very impressive! Side note / post script: Apologies in advance, I think I borked one or two quote attributions.

Have played an Ice/Energy and Ar/Devices Blaster since issue 1 of the old servers. I've seen a lot of changes over the years! ;D I've even recreated them on the old VIP servers when that was a thing. Also have a couple of perma-dom Dominators once that became a thing. Saw the comment about "didn't even log into (test) at all" thought about all I've played of CoX over the years plus over a decade of paid video game development and QA experience, and went off to test like a good little monkey to make these characters, again, and try some of the changes. ::) There being little relevant to Ice/Energy Blasters changed I skipped that. Remade my old Ar/Dev (still got my old Mids and costumes files) used the commands for Inf and Levels, picked powers and slots, slotted some enhancements and ran off to PI to street sweep a bit before getting into deeper testing. Thoughts specifically relevant to snipe changes... The fast snipe indicator is fine and seems to work correctly. Fast snipes work just like any other blast power when in combat and seems to work correctly. The snipe changing damage fairly dramatically between slow and fast versions definitely threw me off for quite a while. This damage swing ended up bothering me more than I think it should. Maybe I would get comfortable with this after a longer period of experience with it like if my character was build from the ground up rather than a granted 50? Still, not sure a power should behave quite so differently. The longer cast time and rooting effect when using a fast snipe in combat is very noticeable and not great, in my opinion and experience. Most Blaster animations will be complete in about the length of one quick jump or slightly longer. Strangely it is listed as being shorter than the animation (activation time) in, say, Slug. Wondering if this is just perception or related to the effects mentioned here by others on test server. Regardless, I'm fairly certain it is closer to 3 seconds in some scenarios, like right after placing a Trip Mine? Thoughts adjacent to the snipe adjustments and other Blaster changes present... Toxic Web Grenade is a change probably for the best. In the end I wished it could now be swapped with the new version of High Voltage Taser but that would be a whole other kettle of fish and or can of worms! As some others have mentioned, maybe the damage type is a little funny, crushing damage is usually represented as smashing type in game. A nitpick but fair. Maybe it's a net with poison on it, not crushing them with a net! High Voltage Taser is pretty darn nice. So nice that I thank goodness it is a quick cast animation (activation time 1 second) power or I would want it back to the longer effect, longer recharge version so my blasting wasn't constantly interrupted. As it is it's still pushing it's luck. Again, if it was the primary power choice over web grenade... a blasty girl can dream? Targeting Drone and Field Operative, the overpowered just got more overpowered. ;D These plus two 7.5 and one 8.75 global recharge IO bonuses (ATO's and a SotM Snipe set) put you 25 seconds off perma-hasten (123.75 recharge when Hasten is up) and all that in two powers (5 if you count 2 attacks and a snipe for slotting purposes) that also give you 20+ hp/sec regeneration and 1.63% end/sec on top of Health and Stamina and an astounding 28.86 ToHit Buff from 3 SOs in Targeting Drone? This isn't bragging this is just what you get from some really simple IO/ATO slotting and some SO's. Wow and more thoughts in a bit to clarify below in the general overall thoughts. Time Bomb has lost some of its uniqueness by becoming a five second plant it and pray "nuke." It also suffers difficulty with being synced up with a Trip Mine any more because 80% of the time (80.00% chance for 8.31 magnitude knockback on target) Time Bomb knocks the targets away before the Trip Mine can be finished being placed. I used to do this wombo combo a bunch (using the blinking light on Time Bomb to make timing easy) when soloing or on smaller teams and have a fondness for it even if it's maybe a waste of time in the grand scheme of things. Not sure how the interaction between faster Time Bomb cast and time to damage versus bog standard Trip Mine plays out yet. Are we just sort of paving the road to Trip Mine being made easier to use? Both Trip Mine and Time Bomb fire off the buff on (successful) cast but Time Bomb the buff comes up about a full second before you are free to move and act again (still stuck in Time Bomb casting animation) where Trip Mine it's right at the end and could be even earlier if interrupt enhancements are used. Do the realities of landing, even in its improved state, a Time Bomb that is "worth it" trump the cold hard math behind a defiance damage nerf? Thoughts on Blasters in general overall. There are a lot of powers that are going to be must have or near must have status. From my Ar/Dev experience POV with some explanations that may apply to blasting globally... Burst and Slug, because they work while mezed due to Defiance. Same for any Blaster. Same with Toxic Web Grenade, although everyone has to take their first secondary power. Again, High Voltage Taser here would be amazing. Speaking of... High Voltage Taser, super solid mez and damage option in a secondary. A Snipe if you get one, because of everything going into them in this and previous patches. A Couple of AoE damage powers because Blasters do this pretty darn well and you'll likely need more than 1 so you can cycle them well on each pull. Your Tier 9 attack in addition to these AoE attacks because they've been tweaked up to be so darn amazing with improved recharges, no crash and better average damage across the board. Targeting Drone, an absolute PILE of ToHit and 30% recharge? Yes please. (Build Up for non Devices sets usually) Other sets have access to Aim which I think is a no brainer pick as well. Field Operative, Recovery, Regeneration, Stealth and Defense all in one power. Or Energize or Drain Psyche or whatever your secondary equivalent is. Beanbag to go with High Voltage Tazer. IE: Two somethings that have synergize with whatever crowd control you have access to so you can two tap lock down bosses fast. Trip Mine and Time Bomb. Strong powers for crowds that add solid defiance damage to boot and provide alternative game play options like setting up traps for pulls, etc. Things like Power Boost, Boost Range, Frozen Aura and such in other sets. Gun Drone, your little buddy that helps pull aggro so you can do your thing more safely or just adds DPS when everything is under control. Or whatever your Tier 9 is, they are usually pretty amazing, some more than others any more. Hasten, the devil we all know whose -20 end crash is easily handled on Blasters now. Epic/Ancillary power pool shields because we all get hit, might as well try to mitigate it a bit. Epic/Ancillary pet options, same thing as Gun Drone pretty much. Epic/Ancillary miscellaneous options, Force of Nature, LRM, Etc. and/or What Have You. Big LRM fan here on my Ice/Energy for example but would probably go with something else on AR/Dev since I have a in set Snipe. (The following is more near must have, personally I find them must haves) Combat Jump for immobilize protection and the excellent maneuverability it provides for negligible endurance cost and a great place to stick defense IOs. (Hover is another option here.) While I'm in the Jumping power pool I might as well grab Super Jump (because lord knows I'm not grabbing Jump Kick) on my way to Acrobatics which has solid Knock back/up Protection, Mag 2 Hold protection and 50% Hold resistance for less than .2 endurance per second on an AT that now has next to zero endurance concerns. Although somewhat depreciated in a world of KB protection IOs I find it still worth it personally. Super Speed to stack with Field Operative or power pool stealth or a stealth IO in sprint/slide for PvE invisibility, easy choice because of Hasten and just a solid option on Blasters in general and particularly and /devices who like to get in early and set Trip Mine or Time Bomb. How best to sum up? This is all a probably a, "Problem you want to have" scenario but we have a lot of must have powers. The more you diversify the above picks, let's say by dropping the Jumping power pool picks in favor of even more attacks, you will hit a solid slot crunch as well. On top of that you're also not going to have a reasonable chance to cycle these "even more attacks" in most combat scenarios. Some players had already dropped snipe attacks from their builds (often with an eye focused on AoE attacks) as a response to these realities but now these changes (Snipes and Sustain) are going to ratchet that crunch back into full effect I'm thinking. I'm not saying don't implement the changes, mind you. I don't think the answer can or would be Blasters get more slots or something either. Maybe the Sustain changes in powers like Field Operative could be made to be larger base amounts but ignore buffs and enhancements? This would do something to alleviate slot crunch, at least a little. Thoughts on Blasters that don't have snipes. Dual Pistols, Ice Blast, Sonic Attack and Water Blast all don't have a snipe. I have extensive experience in all but Water Blast. Dual Pistols was tuned up nicely with the late animation changes and Sonic Attack can be very damaging with it's -res debuffs but may need a little tweaking. Now Ice Blast though? Ice Blast has TWO AoE attacks (Frost Breath and Ice Storm) total and thus thrived on its ability to sling hard hitting single target attacks as quickly as possible. Ice Blast never really recovered from the animation time normalization passes that helped so many other sets but left this one really smarting. Ice Bolt used to be a sub 1 second cast and Ice Blast closer to 1.15/1.25 or so. They wouldn't need to return to these exact values as perhaps a sub 1 second animation time was a little low but something closer to this would help the set get back it's footing in a Fast Snipe world. Ice Blast in particular has never looked right having essentially a .5 second "duhhhh my arm is tired" animation time tacked on to the end of it. I really miss slinging out 8+ attacks during Aim or Build Up. ;) Ice Blast did get a nice bump of damage in Freeze Ray gaining a rapid high damage dot. (Small nitpick from me as it did have niche use before the damage buff in holding Nemesis LTs without killing them thus activating their vengeance but the set needs some damage in a post Fast Snipe world so, compromises are made. :)) I'm not sure it would need much more than that Freeze Ray bump and the animation times tweak to get it back into a good spot as a more single target specialist. This is incredibly long and I'm totally willing to hear other viewpoints on a lot of it. Thank you for reading. Thank you for having a test server and thank you for being willing to take feedback and act on it!

Under Fire: 1628.6 0.3 -1047.3

From Paragon Wiki "Buffs and debuffs coming from different players or enemies always stack, even if they all use the same power, with one exception. The buffs from any version of Vengeance do not apply to any characters currently buffed by any version of Vengeance." https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Stacking

Hate to shoot down ideas but prefer to keep any fear of missing out mechanics away.

/e Boggle This is amazing, thank you!

I really feel you on this one. I had an Energy Melee Brute alt that became one of my faves and then quickly melted away after those changes. Also, an early main of mine was an Ice/Energy Blaster and when Ice Blast got normalized it didn't feel like the same toon any more. I recreated the Ice/Eng Blaster and my old main Invulnerable/Super Strength Tank as a SS/Inv Brute and been loving it. Also made a new Robot/Time Mastermind on blue side for new fun!