No Gods No Kings

Wow that's pretty interesting. I was looking at Ice melee and despite the DOTs for a brute I'm not finding it particularly damaging. Seems maybe fire melee with its secondary Dot effects might be a stronger choice.

I have one of these up to 42. It is pretty flimsy until you get your Tier 9, which is amazing. In fact it is probably the best Tier 9 in the armor sets. You wont be as sturdy as some most of the time but for 30 seconds you will be almost tank levels of sturdy . Only thing is EM doesn't help you clear large spawns quickly, so bring back up.

I'm willing to amend any list I make with new info. In Truth I didn't really take into accounts all the set, Stone made it in purely on the fact that you cant make one as a scrapper. I did forget that Psy does DOT but I don't have much numbers on it. Does it benefit from fury if so it should go in about the same place as Savage. I love WM.. on something else. Let me know if you have suggestions on the others. STJ its fast animating decent AOE. Claws is actually really good fast animating low base damage lots of AOEs. Ice I don't have experience with Ice but this should be a pretty good Primary as well lots of DOTs for damage. Fire should be as good as Ice but... bleh. Anyone got good reps on Fire? Not sure about Staff. As Far as far as secondaries only one I think is terrible is Ice. Primaries S Tier - Rad, Spines A Tier- Savage, Super Strength, Street Justice, Claws, Ice B Tier- Stone, Fire, Dual Blades C Tier - Warmace (Sword, Axe), Electric Melee D Tier- Titan Weapons Secondary S Tier - Electric, Dark, Fire A Tier- Bio, Rad, Shield, Stone B Tier - Super Reflexes, Invulnerability, Energy Aura, Will power C Tier- D Tier- Ice Armor F Tier- Regen

Ok fair point in total resists. Though I don't know how noticeable 3.75 is, though I suspect the bigger hole Electric covers is the Psychic as it seems to be more common than toxic and energy is more common than fire.

What do you think is squishy about it? Its not particularly tough like say Invul or Stone, but it falls pretty much in line with the others. Like Electricity Solid Resists, no defenses, healing and end management. Ones I would consider a bit squishy are bio or energy or regen or something in that vein or just anything that doesn't hit damage caps and are susceptible to a big hit from a common damage source.

You are right about that I'm going to edit my list maybe it goes with Savage. Yeah it is kind of making me think I would put Bio higher, Toggle Damage Aura, I sort of of forgot about SS I might go back and add it to the list. I struggled with Bio cause Fire, Elec, Dark, are just clearly tougher on a Brute, yet Bio is otherwise as good as it gets but I didn't take into account that you could run Defensive mode as I am always in damage mode.

Yeah I had the misconception that Fire Aura was squishy it is anything but and healing flames give you click Toxic resist so in the early game a fire Tank is pretty good vs Vaz. Bio and Shield are debatable, I don't think that they don't put themselves as far out ahead but the have mechanisms that allow you to get a small but noticeable survivability bump. With AOE damage being overall lower than Single target damage the smaller scale favors the Brutes. Bio might actually be in S Tier, I forgot it does have a damage toggle aura, though the defenses themselves are not noticeably better than the scrapper version.

So after looking at the sets these are my subjective picks. My criteria for the armor set is that they should easily allow you to get over the scrapper resist caps in someway the other is that they need to either have a damage aura or they need a damaging area attack. This list is just what I think is the most "brutish" Tougher than a scrapper and pumps out more damage. Once again this is not how good the armors are in the game, but how much I think they distinguish brutes from scrappers or Tankers. Primaries S Tier - Rad, Spines A Tier- Savage, Stone, Super Strength Secondary S Tier - Electric, Dark, Fire A Tier- Bio, Rad, Shield B Tier - Super Reflexes, Rad and Spines have damage auras which help bridge the damage gap a bit to scrappers, savage has low damage but good DOTs which favor Brutes. Stier Armors all have toggle damage auras. Fire and electric kind of pulls into the lead cause they go to the tanker Cap pretty easily. Bio's defense and resists numbers are better on the brute and the more you chase HP the greater the separation between Brute and scrapper. Rad is a lot like Bio, and Shield is just overall awesome and one with the shield lets you hit those tanker cap numbers, and shield charge gives even more damage. SR I'm not sure belongs but if you slot for resistance the scaling can take you past the Scrapper caps but.. meh.

Ok So here is my build for Sandviper. So I like to have fun with all the controls and fun stuff that dark does so I took pretty much everything and still came out pretty good. Also with the amount of -tohit you will be doing its like softcapping. The whole build should run about 500 Mill give or take. I took Touch of fear. Personally I love the power. It recharges quick it is AOE and can carry a variety of procs. If you are fighting a group it is a lot better than hitting shadow punch. Also I slotted it for knockdown so it adds some mitigation. The way Cloak of fear is slotted with Gloom combined with Musculature, and Control Hybrid is incredibly fun. You are stunning and immobilizing everything and I mean everything. And doing psychic damage. It actually isn't a huge end hog thanks to all the +end procs, but you always have conserve power if you want it and ageless to bail you out and to shore up your vulnerability to recharge debuff. | Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1411;690;1380;HEX;| |78DA6594CB4F53411487E7F6DE0285D60205CA53687914A896FAD81B2368A234A9D| |67D730343A960DBDC12034B139F5B37BA50D1C4F7C2C4952FF4AF304A74E552B1D5| |4445F0753D9DF383569DA4FD66CE9CE7CC991B9B1F75DF3F70728FD0DCFB66CD7C3| |E79D4CCCC48CB193353E90941C39530339327D2396955D3AA8DB793A3724A66F232| |326A5A33C9BDD6F1ACE5C74E4CCE4AC8D554B8E3D9EC6C645C9AB97426E5518BFDE| |9D4F41CADBC1B5B93D2CA4FA773B56A9DC84939E91BCBA52722631969A516923133| |3F27AD85564A60907E8F5CF4A79592B375F145176287211ABF32DB57993D6BCCD59| |2AE1AB653C40941436C390C1E610612CCE119A16C46A6988FC956E3384EED1BFB73| |208E03716B5A49A1CB107D7EE608E23E245B1DB6FA2943C98CF3E069E6F633CCC85| |9E6C839E613B275A23E27E255A1AE2AF81F5E673E25DD6A95A46D54171C2A879A15| |66ED7BB0A02B861A99EB64C3C7620BD73187F2B344823AC4AC3BC4BEDDCD1AF3336| |2D6F3BA853AC1C3BAC2039DEF64EF45BDDED7AC5FFF127CC56C7983BB59660690CF| |33B26D80BF861734F119E207C97CC8C7F78EEB68FA0016992D6FD9DE41F934A39E6| |69B86D049E287B57F3767D81A057731DB77721606E9B6B1AEA30DD5049A9843A8F8| |2765D3A1E9AABA8E3B7C629DB7C15BCCAD37C11BE05DE673B2ED42755DF35C5D03C| |5EC6699D68D987D88F58BF4837CA3CE202AED45E5BDB8D9DEA2C15DB7C28C16B873| |7E936D3FBABD7F80E30F0C83836098194297874A5D4F3E16757E5DA573180CF3DED| |03F5C23FF61F80F5FE398DB16C1ABE01574F765F03A33483547507304FE3678CF23| |44146714BDC8F90D199BAFDCEE34365F716949373C5EDEA566668BB80111C934A55| |5A8ADD05292E27F928F65892602740821FA9A1CD4143F55EE21AF9E0B4CFBEFF120| |4852A47BC9579E2F55CCCB63BC42FA07FD6BF91C| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Dark/ Dark is a beautiful set I have both a tanker and a brute... how much you willing to spend? 😅 500 Million gets you a pretty fun set. Also are you looking to be as tough as possible? Or do you wanna have some fun?

Lol yeah it is a few then add Incarnates on top of it and I'm going to quite busy. Yeah I would love to pick up hasten but I'm maxed out pool powers, the only thing I think I could sacrifice is Combat maneuvers but I'm getting good mileage out of it defenseively.

Hey so messing around with Mids when I was supposed to be working and I decided I wanted to take advantage of the tanker AOE abilities and see if I could narrow the game some between a Tanker and Brute in terms of damage. I think it was pretty good. Looking for feed back. The most that jumps out to me is a way to squeezing hasten to make him a real turbo charger, but I couldn't swing it. Did I make any obvious mistakes or a few small ones, or does it look as good to you as to me? https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1413&c=692&a=1384&f=HEX&dc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

Well put, I think the cross proliferation of ATs maybe hurt brutes a little, in terms of uniqueness. I have 2 brutes for farming they are still clear kings of that world.

Same. The Stalker for me is Elec/SD. Its good on other toons but AS closes the ST damage hole nicely and with Neither Shield charge nor Lighting Rod breakign concealment, on the Stalker it is entirely its own beast. I'm trying to figure what that is on a brute. I think Rad melee is the quinetessinatal brute, but I honesty don't like it so maybe savage. Think the Brute armors is Rad or Bio.

Also I imagine that /elec benefits more from Savage +recharge since it has click heal and endurance powers.

That's actually a pretty good answer as far as fury being more consistent. I think maybe brutes excel in situations that are like brutes themselves. Somthing tough with moderate but consistent damage that will wear down a burst situation.

Ok thanks all. What I'm taking away is I need to look at combo defenses like, Will Power, Bio to spread out the survivability gap between a brute and a scrapper, and when picking primary look for damage auras, dots eg: savage, spines, maybe fire? I enjoy the class I was just curious what combos maybe play most to the Brute's strengths. Thinking maybe make a Savage/ Bio or Savage/ WP.

I agree with what you are saying about the scrapper sometimes having his crit be overkill, and that tends to be how the game goes most of the time. Which I think accentuates my question about brutes. It seems like they thrive best in some unnatural situation like a farm or pylon Test. I actually have a Fire/MA based of you build so thanks for that lol. So question then is still what Primary/ Secondary set would you say plays most to the Brutes strength?

The Brute is dead to you or the tanker? Thanks that's just the kind of response I was looking for, I was tying to see if maybe there was some other way to look at it. Like what am I missing mechanically.

Also for reference here is the brute I was working on, and I kept wondering why I don't just make it a scrapper? | Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1368;664;1328;HEX;| |78DA6593CB4F135118C5EFB45310687908140AE551E4D94229EAC2180D511E2EA49| |184C42D19CBB54C52DB665A1258BAF06F70254FDD29BEFE2437260A98184D1461FC| |66CE014D68D2FC72CFF79873BF7B6F767D36BC7FEFE9B4321A660A56A5B27CD759A| |BEA50D6CADBB9A052AA71A6F4C82A54FB67562D27AF9D5A91E27ECA725617B44ECF| |1574AEEAD839AB002186E0AC7EAC8B150917B593DF58BEB3E658AA6DB1542AA4E7D| |6CBDAB19FE862D5AADAA562C417E7EDFC6AD52EE6C3FE6A415B6559D4FB8BA5B2D6| |2BB1B9B29D3B6B96B52A55ED6CC069A718EA97FFA93AFBB921F54A9C4F996A641B9| |CD82177C1F41EF9127CED95197E6D40B51BBE163892588FA91287E01B2F05394123| |C99C14389C0627264057B282C80D05C3A6AF9911B2110C37818DCD640BB82F55217| |A09D14B0D3DD47C073D1FB5EC5F7B1CF0B54B7FC813B0FE9474C1A842ADB7CF3AD4| |1A7529E5F71F24DF0A1A0CD38BA98604B4C5A45211CC5545BA31AF77B26A420FB38| |93368E64C9A398BAEABC81DE34CBC79B4A08FD9321CF0B5CB4932052647C0F151F0| |BD64B772E6AD9C45DB6FE5EFA3ED17183D060DB999EDF4D9EECA4F0545E9A0CB8E0| |CAA3BA7C8EBE0E03530E9254A175310E374629F70225DCFE0E683A8DDFE157083DD| |7413A78B385D0DD28D29DFEEA1F31EE6F632D6CB9A5ED678A7DDC7D3ECBB816FF5D| |F226F93D39866E226494F1FA56A80DF19F88AD8952FE467F2007C202739C41732F4| |02A73BBC496E29BE1872071CDB05A3B29F51CE6594FB19BB8FBE03124B3196E24D1| |A27EBE4C8D388A9F473785E121F19EE37B3092DB3456E83533BE42EB907CE7B97D3| |58F16ADDB879FEE2BDA59CF8C20565D1E4C316C5F09583FAF3B7CE9CC30BCAD13FC| |55009EC72F2216EC8B7FF633F7143267F80C7510162EE5FD7C3D72A| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|

TLDR: What power combination makes Brutes standout from the other Melee Classes? So I've been messing around with Brutes in Mids, and as I started to pay attention to the numbers I started feeling a little confused. What is the incentive to be a brute? This isn't a knock on the class or anything, I have a couple Brutes and I enjoy playing them. I'm just not sure what incentives being a brute. Basically I like looking at ways to maximize the inherent advantages of of the AT. Looking at damage, Scrappers burst damage blows brute out the water, and even Tankers will hit harder right out the gate. Brutes more damage than Tankers in the end but in practice on teams you will tend to split the aggro with another Tanker or Brute so while the amount of fury you get does put you ahead of the Tanker it doesn't put you much further ahead. Also the Tanker gets larger AOEs so they seem to come out ahead in that area. So if you want to do single target damage or AOE both seem like better options. Another point for Tankers is that they don't have to invest so heavily in there defenses by chasing set bonuses, so they are free to pursue more competitive damage. Though ultimately the brute will out damage them in some areas. Scrappers and Tankers have higher base damage so sets like Electric Melee, Shields, Bio seem to favor them The next is damage mitigation. So this was really what drove me to make this post. I have a SR Brute and Tanker both, which are both fun, but unless you hit the resists cap you may as well roll a scrapper, they hit the same cap as the Tanker and Brute but come loaded with more damage, so again SD, SR, Ice (Scrapper version is way better than brute or tank) etc. Even bio a scrapper can get comparable levels of Health Regen, even though not as much resists. At first I looked at Energy Aura cause it was the one armor that Brutes had Tankers didn't but being a defense set it had comparable survival to scrapper, but was a lot less damaging. Put another way my question is what is the Brutiest Brute Combination? What do Brutes do best, and what Primary/ Secondary combo would accenuate their strengths the most? Right now they sort of occur as sort of narrow Tankers. I'm hoping for a different answer than "just play what you like" I already do that. I was wonder what some peoples idea of a quintessential brute is. Thank you.