sykoholic001

Considering what some people have done with bases and the base editor, I would think that creating a player base that is at least similar to a council base is totally do-able. Not saying that I can/would do it. Just saying that it is highly likely that it can be done.

If there is, it isn't Torchbearer.

That was pretty much my attempted point as well... the names are simply "references", rather than exact, set-in-stone definitions or explanations.

Origins are broad, generic, all-encompassing "sources" and as such, are open to the creative interpretation of the individual player. Yes... some powers are a better fit, thematically, to some Origins but with a bit of creativity, those same powers can be explained via any of the other Origins. The word "necromancy" quite literally means "Death Magic". Does this mean that all characters that have the Necromancy power set MUST have the Magic Origin. Of course not. Their ability to summon and control undead can be explained by any of the Origins. The same goes for Demon Summoning or any power/ability that most people would more commonly attribute to "Magic". Maybe the character's ability to summon and control demons/undead is a mutant power or the result of a device they invented. Regardless, Origin means very little in-game anymore and is really just a role-playing and backstory element. As such, any Origin works with any Power set... some just take a bit more creativity and imagination than others.

Going back to the OP.... Lack of Agency and Focus This has been discussed at length many, many times but nonetheless it is (IMO) a major factor. "City of Villain" failed to meet player expectations. We were expecting to be able to play bad guys, running around Paragon City, doing bad guy things. Instead, we're running around a giant slum, serving as someone else's lackey. Not only are we not pursuing our own master plan, we're not even our own masters. We're not supervillains. We're hired thugs. The problem is, the level of freedom/agency we were wanting simply can't be put into a video game. It can be done in a tabletop, pen-and-paper RPG because there is a Gamemaster running it who can ad-lib and alter things spontaneously in response to the player-characters' decisions and actions. In the case of a video game though, we can only do what the game is programmed to let us do. We can't spontaneously decide to go rob the neighborhood jewelry store. Why? Because the game isn't programmed for the jewelry store to be rob-able ("rob-able"? Is that even a real word? 🤨). Most buildings we can't even enter freely, beware actually rob, bomb, or take the occupants hostage. As others have said, villains are proactive and are the catalyst to which heroes react. Giving players the level of agency needed for their villain characters to be "proactive" would require the devs/writers to anticipate every single thing a villain player might possibly want or try to do and program the game to accommodate it... and that just isn't feasible. Tips and Newspaper missions do have some measure of agency, simply by involving a greater element of choice, but they don't ever amount to anything. Go beat up some Goldbrickers and take this piece of advanced tech. Do we actually get the tech and actually get to use it? Is it a piece of Salvage or a Temp Power? Is it a vital component of the orbital bombardment death ray we've been secretly constructing? Nope. It's just a plot device. A story element. Nothing more. If it was a Tip mission, it is at least one more step on our path towards changing alignments... which we can already do freely and on a whim, thanks to a sentient, extra-dimensional, seemingly all-powerful, seagull (huh? 🤪). The lack of agency plays into another issue with City of Villains... it's all about Arachnos. From the very start, the whole objective is to build/improve our characters' standing in the eyes of Arachnos. Even if we choose Burke the Mercenary as our first contact thereby thumbing our nose at Arachnos, it is still all about them. We aren't the main character of our own story. We're supporting characters in their story. What if we don't give give a fat, hairy, wet rat's hind end about Arachnos? What if we'd rather ally ourselves with the like of The Circle of Thorns or Devouring Earth or maybe side with Darrin Wade and Rularuu? Nope. No such content. No such option. Arachnos or nothing. The Zones The Rogue Islands are islands (obviously) which means there is limited space. Nearly every bit of what little space there was has been used. As such, they are cramped and crowded and getting around can be quite the chore. Realistic? Yes... but also a complete and utter pain in the backside. So much so that some players simply refuse to go there. Oddly, as cramped and crowded as some of the zones are, it seems like large portions of those same zones go unused by the game. Are there any "door" missions in the Vagabond Hills in Cap au Diable? Not that I can immediately recall. The only reason to go up there is the Exploration Badges or to run around, playing Whack-a-Mage to get the "Soul Binder" badge. As a result of this, all the "action" is confined to small portion of an already small and confided zone, thus making it seem even more "small and confined". Not only that, but there also seems to be a very small and select number of "doors" that are actually used so not only is travel around the zone a hassle but it's a repetitive hassle ("Oh gee... we get to go all the way across the zone to that very same sewer grate AGAIN!") and makes getting defeated and having to work your way back to the mission even MORE annoying. As for the very look and atmosphere of The Rogue Isles... I could be wrong but I think the idea is to not only reflect Lord Recluse's disregard for the well-being and quality-of-life of his subjects but also such conditions create adversity which, in turn, "separates the wheat from the chaff"... which is what Arachnos is all about. Those capable of elevating themselves and rising above will do so. Socio-economical natural selection. Okay... yeah... I get it... but let's face it: all the grimy brick and rusted pipe is damned depressing. That alone is enough to turn some people off of red side. Roleplaying With the ease at which we can change "sides", being a villain or a hero no longer really means anything in-game. Choosing to be/stay one or the other is a "story decision" and a matter of roleplaying... and some (I dare say "most") people just don't care about that stuff. They simply want to go where the action is and the rewards are better... and, for whatever reason, that seems to be blue side.

That might encourage people to play the red side SFs/TFs but it wouldn't encourage them to stay on red side. As @Clave Dark 5 said, it might pull them over but it wouldn't keep them. "Come to Red Side. We have cookies!" Well... they show up, eat the cookies, and leave. They don't stay and hang out. They're just there for the cookies. 😒

On Torchbearer, the LFG Chat is almost always the same thing: Posi 1, Posi 2, Synapse, and MLTF. Not only is it almost always the same but it is also pretty much constant. So, simply based on that observation, it seems many people prefer Blue Side because its task forces are better "farms" for quick and easy XP.

Since it has apparently been a couple of days, this obviously isn't the problem but... sometimes teleporters won't recognize beacons simply because the base/editor needs to be reset. Exit the editor, exit the base, maybe even go so far as to exit the game. Come back in a bit and voila... it suddenly works. The old "turn it off then turn it back on again" solution. Apparently not the issue here but I figured it should be mentioned, just in case.

I had the same issue with fog. I wanted mist in my sauna but the fog FX would pass through the walls and fill the rooms and hallways beyond. I don't know a great deal about graphics and animation and coding and whatnot so all this is merely speculation but I think the problem is that things like fog and waterfalls are just images. There is no mass or particles or other such "physics" involved. There is literally nothing to be blocked so, as such, they can't be blocked. To make them "blockable", the FX themselves would have to be changed and have "physics" added to them.

I just saw a GM post on the Discord that Snaptooth is indeed broken and the Devs are aware.

Having the same issue. The first time I tried, he came back after the first defeat but didn't return after the second. The second time I tried, he didn't return after the first defeat.

Yes... by definition, that is what those words mean. By in-game mechanics however, they are wealth and/or currency that are simply called "influence" and "infamy". It's the old saying about "a rose by any other name...". Call them whatever you want but, in-game, they are still money. And since Prestige was based solely upon them, an SG's wealth is all it truly measured. We could role-play and pretend that Prestige (as well as Influence/Infamy) represented "the difference we are making in the world" but it was, nevertheless, still money. I fully agree that simply "turning Prestige back on" would be a great deal easier for the devs than what I'm suggesting. I'm just saying that what I'm suggesting (Prestige being based on more than just money) would better fit (IMO) the overall idea/theme of you're wanting. As for bringing back the SG Badges... this is where some of the misunderstanding lies. When you say "bring back the SG badges" which do you mean: the "idea" of SG Badges or literally the old SG Badges themselves. I'm all for having SG Badges be a thing again... though there would still be the issue of Larger SG Advantage/Privilege. Bringing back the old badges... not so much. Bringing the old one back would be pointless. Nearly all of them unlocked a base item/asset (or, rather, a recipe for a base item). That was the whole point behind them. Earn the badge to unlock the item. All of those items/assets are now completely free and for the most part utterly useless except as decor. Even the names of the old badges don't apply anymore because they were named after the items they unlocked. So... by all means, make SG Badges a thing again but they need to be all new and completely different badges Yes... it can and has been changed, but "changed" is the keyword there. What you are wanting (Prestige not actually taking any of a member's Inf but counting, converting, and calculating as though it had) would require it being changed again, not just simply turned back on. Turning off a red light then turning it back on won't make it blue. Ya gotta change the bulb. As @Rudrasaid, simply turning Prestige back on wouldn't do anything other than give us the exact same thing we had (and universally hated) before it was turned off... and nobody wants that, hence why it was turned off. We are also going off the assumption that Prestige even can be turned back on. For all we know, the HC devs may have removed it from the game code completely and the system/mechanic doesn't even actually exist anymore.

Okay... so what exactly does Prestige have to do with this? Prestige, as it was, could be viewed as an SG's influence on the world around them but, in truth, it was currency. It was based solely on the Influence/Infamy that SG members earned. Not XP. Not achievements. Not Merits. Solely on in-game "money". Maybe it's just a matter of perspective but I really don't see how "rich" an SG is as an indication of how of much of a difference it is making in the world. Well... maybe a villain group (not only making a negative difference but profiting from it as well) but certainly not a hero group. Maybe if Prestige, as a metric, were changed so that it was a combination of XP, Inf, Merits, and what-have-you, thereby reflecting all of a member's activities (and thereby, all of the SG's activities) rather than just their money earning, it would better suit the purpose you are suggesting. (I'm pretty sure you meant "wouldn't be interesting to look at" so I will proceed under that assumption.) I'm not seeing how or why a badge would be necessary. More interesting and more fun... yes. Necessary or the only way... no. Not saying that I'm against the idea. I'm all for it. I love badges. I'm just saying that I don't see it as "necessary". If you want to track/gauge the difference your SG is making in the world, why wouldn't a "never-ending tally" suffice?

I think I see what you're saying... all you are wanting/suggesting is a means of measuring the difference (good or bad) that a group has made in the world. Not necessarily a prize or award for making that difference. Merely an indicator that said difference had been or is being made. Rather than a badge or unlocked base item for 100K of faction X defeated, more of "kill count" showing the group's combined total of faction X defeated. These totals (be they kill counts, SF/TFs completed, Inf earned, damage healed, or whatever) would be tracked via progress bars (or the like) in a tab on the main interface, akin to how one views the badges they've earned and/or are earning. No buffs, bonuses, or benefits. No prizes, rewards, or badges. No milestones. No unlocked base items. Sure as hell no "currency". Just a series of indicators. "Gauges", if you will. @Earth Dragon Is THAT what you are wanting/suggesting?

@Andreah See what I mean? 😋

Different people experienced different things... the only time I joined someone else's supergroup, the SG Leader wasn't absentee... the whole damned group was. Other than the person who recruited me, I never encountered a single other member of the group. The base was quite large and fully decked out so obviously it had to be a decent sized group and fairly active but for whatever reason there was never anybody there. No "Message of the Day". No chatter in the SG Chat. Nothing. Even the person who recruited me disappeared to never be seen again. After three days of nothing and nobody, I decided that staying in such a group was pointless and quit. Obviously, not all SGs are bad. We've just had bad experiences. Yes... there are some SG Leaders who are self-important, tyrranical, a-holes who think you somehow owe them for allowing you into their group. Yes... there are those who are overly competitive and insist on turning badge-collecting and prestige-earning into a "Mine is bigger than yours" contest. But there are no doubt others that aren't like that... likely smaller SGs made up of a group of friends who get together in-game to have fun.

Valid point... but apply that same logic/perspective to various other things in the game and allot of them could be considered "currency" as well. We get badges for taking damage. Thus "damage taken" could be considered "currency". We get badges for time spent under the influence of Hold, Mez, or Sleep. Thus that time could be considered "currency". We get badges for defeating Skulls. Thus Skulls could be considered "currency". Anything that earns us a badge could be considered "currency"... including time spent logged off (ie: Day Job badges). Even XP could be considered "currency" because when we earn enough, we gain a level. So... from this perspective, how/why is the earning of any sort of "currency" and that earning resulting in being awarded a badge any different for an SG than it is for an individual toon? (Note: Not being snarky or smart-a$$ed. Honest and legit question) Allow me to clarify (if I can 🤨)... it wouldn't be a "currency" in the sense that it couldn't be spent, traded, or exchanged or used to buy, pay for, or otherwise purchase anything. It would simply be earned by the SG but serve no actual in-game purpose other than a means of measuring an SG's activity and "success". As I said, larger SGs will always have an advantage in "earning" because 20 can get more done than two. I don't really see any way around this other than applying a handicap of some sort (Ie: base amount of X needed multipled by a factor based on the number of players in the SG) but that would likely just result in the exact opposite... it would then be the larger SGs saying "No Fair. We have to work harder". 😑

True... there is neither a problem nor a need. There does, however, seem to be something of a "want". Maybe not a large or prevalent "want" but a "want" nonetheless. Like Captain Valiant, I have a one-player supergroup so none of this really applies to me personally. I would likely never be able to earn any SG Badges if they were re-introduced. Like you, I like to share thoughts and ideas simply for the sake of doing it and making conversation... though, more often than not, I really should just keep my mouth shut. 😉

Say "Prestige" in the context of this game and most people will automatically think the old, much-despised, "SG Money" system which made such a foul taste in most people's mouths that merely mentioning "prestige" will immediately send people into a hissy and turn them against an idea, regardless of what that idea may have actually been. So, say things like "turn Prestige back on" or "prestige for super groups again" and that's all many people are going to see and react to. Anyways.... Prestige does not need to be "turned back on". Rather, it needs to be changed and/or replaced. Maybe we should even go so far as to stop calling it "prestige". The new "prestige" wouldn't be currency. Nothing to buy or unlock with it. It would simply be a measurement, a metric by which to measure an SG's "success". For every X number of Influence/Infamy, XP, or merits (or whatever) a toon earns as a member of the SG, that SG likewise earns X number of Prestige. Since it wouldn't be currency, a toon wouldn't have to sacrifice half their Influence/Infamy earned to get it so there would be no downside to playing in SG Mode. In fact, SG Mode itself wouldn't even be necessary and could be (if possible) done away with entirely. Join an SG and the game automatically starts keeping track of the XP/Inf/Merits you earn thereafter. No SG Mode needed. Maybe at certain milestones, an SG would be rewarded a badge for having earned X amount of Prestige, but that's all it would be... a badge. No perks or bonuses or unlocked base items. Just a badge. Similar to the "Bling/Celebrity" badge a toon gets for earning 500K Inf. Nothing special, just a badge. There could be other SG badges as well, similar to the Accomplishment, Achievement, and Defeat badges that individual toons get but, again, they would just be badges. No perks. No buffs. No unlocked base items. Just badges. Yes... larger SGs would have an easier time getting them. There is no way around that. 20 players are going to earn more, get more, kill more, do more, whatever far faster than two players will. But, again, they're just badges. Other than the (I dare say) prestige of having them, they don't do anything so there would be no loss or disadvantage in not having them. There could be a bit of an exception to this and this is just a "silly but fun" idea I had. Earning an SG badge could unlock a base item... an in-game representation of the badge, a trophy plaque of sorts for the SG to put on the wall of their base. So when the SG earns a badge, not only do all the members of the SG get the badge, the base gets one too. 😋

Not only are they not on the same page, I'm pretty sure they aren't even reading the same book. 🤨

SG Badges: Yes Boosts, Buffs, Bonuses, Benefits or Base Items dependent on those badges: No

Exactly. Childish and silly... but for some reason, people not only did it but actually got rather nasty about it. I was (and am) a solo SG and I couldn't have cared less about SG "ranking". I was more concerned about just being able to pay the upkeep. 😋

I think that is what Earth Dragon is wanting... the leaderboard or something similar... a measuring stick of some sort by which one could, from a role-playing perspective, determine the effect an SG's effort and activities are supposedly having on the game world. It's unclear to me whether Earth Dragon wants this "measuring stick" to be public or private but personally, I think such a thing should be kept private so that only members of the SG could see the SG's rating... so as to avoid the overly-competitive "p*issing contest" nonsense that happened with the Prestige leaderboard back in the day.

Not exactly what I personally would consider a "worthwhile" long term goal but hey... to each their own. 😋