chase

All of you in this thread made this community a family- I guess I'm that weird uncle that shows up on holidays, sneaks caffeine and sugar to all the nephews and nieces, give them the "best gifts*" and then disappears unannounced until the next family gathering- even if you change the locks. Thanks for being awesome, everyone. And for not changing the locks. * "Best Gifts" are rated by three criteria: - the highest potential noise level - the most loose pieces. - the pain level of said loose pieces when stepped on If LEGO ever makes a functioning drumset kit, it's game over.

I'm going to switch and play devil's advocate: Should Event Progression (Lore) Even Matter? Why do we have to assume that ANY of the world-changing events that we encounter in the game have already occurred? I rarely encounter many people in-game that claim to be the sole actor responsible for arresting Dr. V or taking down Countess Crey FOR GOOD. I've not found someone who claims they have Vanessa DeVore's mask in their rogue's gallery while she rots away in the zig. Few have the arrogance to claim that the events of a story arc was theirs and theirs alone, because in an MMO we all know that down that path madness lies, as we all often could lay claim to those events. It's a death-knell to collaborative storytelling, not a path forward. So does it REALLY matter whether it even happened or how much time has transpired? There's Vaz or Carnies or Crey or oh-so-many other baddies still around after every event... yeah we can argue they escaped or released on a technicality, but the frequency of those events would make a laughingstock of the whole law enforcement system and really lend ammunition (heh) to the vigilante's "No prisoners" argument. And "it happened once and everyone else is just experiencing a simulation of it.. for training or testing purposes" to justify the shared experience? That's... just... no. I can't begin to deal with that hot mess right now. Instead, what if we played at a baseline of "this is the world as we see it today" and the specific TF or storyarc events are "what's yet to come." For those of us who have encountered them, we keep it vague- if we make it part of our story at all. For collaborative storytelling to work, we DO need a baseline "shared illusion" of the world our characters occupy. Yes, we can handwave away many incompatibilities, but there's a natural tendency to want to "get the facts straight" early so the need for handwaving is limited. So yes, many people spend a lot of time chronicling all the story points and plot developments to present the world "as it exists today" with all the events of the game having already taken place. But - at the risk of diminishing the herculean effort of the chroniclers- should that even be our frame of reference? What's more reasonable: Expecting every new player (and veteran player that hasn't seen everything*) to craft a backstory that accurately reflects every plot point and world development and time progression that ever occured in all of the task forces and story arcs, so they can RP in the world that a well-seasoned level 50 encountered. OR Expecting a level 50 (who's seen all these developments- AND knew the world that existed before those developments) to use the lore immediately available to them all as a common baseline. Anyone invited to join the game today can't really be blamed for assuming that the destruction of Galaxy city is a very real and very recent event, with the city still struggling to help, house, and feed relocatee's, and those dispossessed easily fuel the rise of street gangs like hellions and skulls. Do we really need to re-educate them that the events they're seeing occurred mid-September 2011, with the release of Issue 21, 13 years ago and is all ancient history so they should rethink how their character ties into the world? That early-teen orphaned survivor of the destruction would have been at best a toddler then. Dr Vaz has been imprisoned for oh-so-many years and his wasting disease is a distant memory. Any Lost that might remain are stragglers, as the cure has been around for over a decade. Even veteran players can't be expected to know everything, with all the many paths to level 50. I may have no reason to know that Vanessa DeVore is ultimately separated from her mask and imprisoned in the zig (um... spoilers? 🙂 ) but everyone that sets foot in the higher-level zones will see the carnies still hard at work, presumably doing Vanessa's bidding. Which would seem to be a more reasonable "lore" to build a narrative from? Who's better equipped to adapt to fit the encounter- the newb, or the one that's seen it all? Which one adds more flexibility for a game world that will change very little over the next five years? Do we want events we encounter "now" to be rigidly tied to a past? What will we do with our veterans of the first rikti war when they all hit retirement age? (Seriously asking for Chase Arcanum- he was 30-ish when that war started and his retirement fund took a nosedive after a bad tip on the demonic blood market. It's never recovered.)

Still struggling with a dead PC and discord crashing my tablet, but sooner or later I'll get back to the forum/discord RP.

It's a difficult element to really nail down. In general, I play newbie heroes who are still a little star-struck at the company that they encounter day-to-day. Sure, some (Tabby) may try to (poorly) play themselves off as less awestruck than others, and others (Misosazai) may be trying to display an aura of competent-mercenery, but there are usually cues given to show this is all an act. My FBSA Jr Caseworker- she's been thrown into the deep end from her first day at the FBSA, so she's probably the most jaded I've ever played, and I'm still foguring her out. I had her panic more about having her first teenager case rather than that teen being a chronologically-displaced individual with signs of immortality. That other stuff's so weird, she's not even going to try to wrap her head around it, but damn it, trying to be relatable to a TEENAGER- that's within the realm of reality... so that's terrifying. More often than not, though, I (rightly or wrongly) tend to mirror off the other player - if they're showing no interest in dwelling on their own specialness, then my doing so may just be an annoying distraction. I'll drop some subtle cues that all-may-not-be-as-well with my characters- that there IS something there, but if it isn't picked up on, I let it drop. There's also the question of how long someone continues the "newbie" schtick. Since I do tend to RP infrequently, I don't advance my characters' story as frequently as others. Tabby's been a freshman in PCU for "a few months" since the launch of Homecoming. She's shown elements of being star-struck by *real* heroes several times now, and probably could for some time longer, but for people who do roleplay thier characters as following a more strict timeline, seeing her "fangirl out" again like she did when Homecoming arrived might seem a bit out of place.

I can't stress this part enough- it's PARTICULARLY important for mature and dark subject matter. You will get people arguing that this isn't some therapeutic roleplaying and downplay it. Don't. McSpazz covered many of the great empathy-driven reasons, but in case you're as "dark" as your dark roleplay and just don't care, I'll argue self-interest. The roleplaying community is already fragmented and relatively small. The community interested in dark subject matter is even smaller. If you get a reputation as an unsafe contributor, it won't be long before you have trouble finding willing participants. Take care of the team you have. I'd also argue that you should make this an active part of any roleplay. Although it's particularly true in things you see as bordering this subject matter, sometimes you might not even be aware just how close it may be or how it may impact others. We've mentioned therapeutic roleplay a few times so far in this thread- mostly to say we're NOT practicing it here- but patterns will dovetail here. Oftentimes, rather than deal with a sensitive topic head-on, it can be more safely explored through a substitute- a common superhero trope of being visibly different from normative standards can be a safer way to explore body image issues. Likewise, "Involuntary transformation" can be an avenue for exploring feelings arising from sexual assault and the feelings of being permantly changed by what they've gone through. Although I've used this knowledge to shape how I appraoch a character like Tabby- who IS a survivor of involuntary transformation and will joke that she's the poster child for body image issues- it doesn't need to change yours-- but it does mean that your non-dark, non-mature roleplay might still trigger some negative sentiment in someone that's familiar with and possibly used this in the past. Having aftercare gives an outlet that COULD shape your approach to the story, but will also let that person address what might otherwise be a simmering issue that manifests in other ways. I'd thought I'd done well in navigating this topic with Tabby over the years. It's tough- metaphors (is metaphor the right term) like this aren't perfect- those with body-image issues relating to parts of her story may be working toward enbracing their differences, but an assault survivor isn't trying to embrace the scars that they feel now separates them from others- it's far more complex- but hopefully they're not letting those scars define them or stop them from living full lives-- they're finding a path forward. Two different expected outcomes sharing a very similar situation. Three, actually-- perhaps more- until recently I had never considered that feeling "trapped in a body that's not my own" also resonates with some trans issues-- or that a simple character "learning to accept myself for who I am" could feel so triggering to survivors of controversial techniques attempting to align one's gender identity with their birth identity. This isn't a call to have you change the story you imagined for your character- this isn't a warning to "avoid this concept or trope". That would lead to quite the impossible minefield to dance through, but aftercare gives you the opportunity to address any misconceptions, possibly learn from each other, and maybe bring your community closer together. And once you see how useful aftercare can be in approaching symbolic borderline situations like this, you can see how essential it is in dark and mature topics where the symbolism is stripped away and you're dealing directly with very real and very triggering issues.

As usual with my McSpazz follow-ups, I'm going to go a little introspective here... and while I believe I'll be within the forum rules and some of this will not be new, I'm going to spoiler elements due to the sensitivity some people may have to the material. I'm a combat veteran, and in the closing hours of the war, my unit occupied a rather horrific location- a bottleneck where evacuating forces were subject not just from coalition airstrikes, but their own forces blocking their retreat and our own ground forces. We were surrounded by death and decay for days. I have used my experience in shaping how I portray my veteran characters, but if I were to put it in a bio I'd never include more detail than the above. If I was in a mature RP group and it made some sense to share tales of darker material, I might: The above would normally be enough for most RP I'd engage in, but unless I truly knew the audience and the safety of the venue, I would guard myself in how I share elements that are all easily too vivid to me. The other players aren't therapists. I don't know their thresholds or motivations, and I, frankly, don't intend to cater to somebody else's morbid fascination with death and killing, if that's what they're there for. That's how I feel on a good day, at least. But see- it's never been the details of death and destruction that haunted me. It's the fact that the death and destruction didn't haunt me that haunted me. I've heard the same often enough to know I'm not alone. It's not what we faced but how we faced it that bothers us. So many well-intentioned people will tell you it's the brain's survival mechanism. It gets you through the hard times. That's supposed to make it better. It doesn't. It just makes you want to double-down on the details, going further. They just don't get it, I didn't make it repulsive enough for them to understand- that stuff should NEVER have been easy. It's a natural impulse to want to be understood, and so you want to make the tale darker until they get it. If you don't keep reminding yourself of the audience and venue your tale's taking place in, you risk going too far.

Age verification is a big part of it, yes. For all our joking aside on being able to identify a preteen rather quickly in chat, you can never be too sure who exactly is in your audience and whether they're mature enough for some content. People should always be mindful of that.

I do agree to an extent. Even on the RP-preferred server, you'll meet many people that do not have interest in roleplaying, and even people with the roleplay flag enabled may not be interested in roleplaying at that particular moment, so it can be challenging for an established RP clique to know when someone's interested in joining their current conversation. It's a very awkward spot for both groups, with both risking being ignored, receiving some form of rejection, or just being manipulated by malicious sorts. That's a big chance to take. So... I don't really blame the cliques for being insular and wary of outsiders. I don't blame the people that feel too jaded to try to find new RP communities. It's safer than dealing with rejection. Still, I don't think these communities are all "we have our 5 regulars, who cares about the rest?"- or I hope they're not, and I do not think we as a roleplaying community should be satisfied with a "I've got my X regular friends to RP with, who cares about the rest?" Roleplaying is a creative art of acting, storytelling, self-expression, improvisation, and often introspection and empathy. It's something that should be encouraged and fostered and developed over time. That can't happen if we all keep to ourselves. I don't want people stepping out of their safe zones- that's unfair to ask of anyone, particularly for what's to be a recreational activity. I want to see those safe zones expanded.

Fully understandable. RL work has me hammered. Although I won't lie, this thread did inspire me to start re-imagining a Praetorian clockwork Mk-IV victoria-series fanmodded with catgirl accessories by one of Tabby's stalkers that utilizes this clockwork speech. Codename [TAB]-E

Boot to the head! I was thinking about that skit when I wrote it.

Welcome home, Shy Punk. As you're probably guessing by the traffic on the forum, the Roleplaying forum itself isn't as active as I would have expected, based on the original game forums. Don't get discouraged. Many people organize, post events, etc, in discords- City of Roleplay is one of the most active I've found. There's listings of RP supergroups, events, and players seeking connections. Although I find activity under atlas park and Pocket D, on the discord you'll often find almost-daily announcements for various events- often DJ's at specific supergroup bases/ player nightclubs. (If you're not familiar with the base codes, you can now enter a person's supergroup base with the appropriate base code, leading many people to build locations that others can use for roleplay- from nightclubs to city blocks to orbital battlestations to a nice zen garden. There is also an IC supergroup recruitment faire within a month (IIRC) that can help with introductions to many great roleplaying factions. Keep an eye out for more on that.

A "broker" type character. They deal in magical antiquities, obscure objects of alien origin, high-tech confiscated off imprisoned villains, nanoviral genetic splicers combined with a growing gene inventory. They're not the master of any of it, but they know how to get it and they know the right people to then customize it to a particular client. Probably a defender, the powers are the various tools they keep on hand that can enhance their allies in-battle- at least for the short-term. A showcase, perhaps... or... for the more nefarious salesman... "first one's free, but there's more where that came from."

Now, I'm not a lawyer and don't mean to appear pretending to be one, but many of our lawmakers are not lawyers and it shows. I focused on copyright (not trademark) this way because due to all the fuzziness in copyright law it's not as inapplicable as you may originally think. Registered marks in trade (and defending them) are a big part of that, but copyright isn't as easily shunted away as "reproducing a specific protected work as it originally appeared." The fuzziness (and the changes have occurred since the original Marvel vs Cryptic case) was the point. I didn't intend to diminish the importance of tradmark in the original (and ongoing) debate. Whether for trademark reasons or copyright concerns, I do support the framework that the city council has decided will best balance our city's stability and our community members' self-expression. As an example: Prior to STAR ATHLETICA, L.L.C. v. VARSITY BRANDS, INC., ( 2017 ) it was generally considered that copyright could not be applied to clothing, as it was in its core a "functional item" (outside of the obvious things like screenprinting copyrighted works onto a t-shirt). This case clarified that certain design elements in attire can be unique and expressive enough to be protected under copyright. If you're assuming this is a pretty high bar, check out the images here that were used in that decision. Look at them and ask yourself if the Ms. Marvel swoosh would be similarly protected under that standard, regardless of trademark. Since this is all color lines and cuts, could the distinctive cuts in a sometimes-marginally-covering superheroine's outfit alone create a copyrightable work? Now this currently relates to comic culture is usually through the cosplay world, as cosplay (while "fair use" would reasonably still apply for self-made elements, the for-profit costume makers had long hoped that the "clothing is a functional item" would apply to them even though... let's be honest... many of those costumes are notoriously nonfunctional 😄. Without it, for-profit costume creation is a 'just hope they don't want to bother' industry. You could raise questions regarding "virtual costuming" in games, though... could be a designer's decision to model his cheerleader-character skins off of styles they cribbed from a cheerleading competition, could be the appearance of a character's outfit that previously only appeared in print. None of that is necessarly hard-decided, but it introduced a ton of fuzziness. That case could also imply that the normal trend (trademark a hero logo and apply that to clothing for merchandising) isn't the only way forward. Another Example: People often talk about the trademark claim and then claim that copyright refers to exactly reproducing a specific work of art. (Digitally reproducing the third panel of page seven of issue 35 is a copyright violation. Digitally reproducing the registered trademarked batman logo is trademark) but this is far more fuzzy than people think. But look at movies. Heaven forbid we ever have superhero movies to worry about. Movies do fall under copyright law. So do the component objects- the script, the individual cameral stills, and much of the unique design. Uniquely designed movie props are likewise individually-eligible creations that are eligible for copyright protection. Obi-wan's lightsaber may have been cobbled together from a sink knob, browning machine gun booster, rifle grenade, and a part from a Rolls-Royce jet engine, but it became a unique sculpted work as eligible for copyright protection as any other sculpted work. The SOUND of the lightsaber can be a copyrighted audio piece. Now, it's important to stress this: the idea of an energy sword isn't copyrighted, but the specific representation of that lightsaber can be. It doesn't matter what angle you portray that unsanctioned obi-wan lightsaber you're still violating that creative work if you digitally reproduce it. You don't have to be reproducing a particular frame or following a copyrighted script, the object itself is eligible for copyright protection. And in that context, the superhero's costume in that movie is a protected work under copyright (technically a derivative works of another copyrighted work, but still holding unique expressive elements of their own that have their own protection). If you (accurately) represented them in a medium like a game, it wouldn't matter if you were reproducing a moment in that film. that unique work would matter -------------------------------------------------------------- Anyway, just my 2c. If you'd like to avoid spamming others on this and just DM me, I'm really interested in hearing anyone's take on this. Not a lawyer, but find the whole field fascinating.

It isn't a hard rule in any way, shape or form, but unfortunately, some people can end up generic'd this way. (CORRECTION, see. above) ---- The funny thing here is that unlike others that do fear Marvel stomping on us, I'm becoming a believer that the fact that we DON'T have a financial base to protect us makes Marvel unlikely to take action against us, and you touched on precisely why. I still don't disagree with any GM action to protect themselves, but there's this big murky area of what can and cannot be considered within the scope of a copyrighted work, and the big guys profit most over maintaining that ambiguity. They can't let something go all the way to a ruling. They want a settlement- and a settlement that will at least pay their lawyers' bills. A judgment in their favor could be disastrous for them because that sets precedent. Let's start with the argument that APPEARANCES ALONE that we make in the costume creator can violate their own creative claims to such a likeness in a different field (comics/movies/etc). The game provides the parts for this appearance, so the game alone can be considered at fault for giving clients the ability to assemble them in bad ways. Setting such a precedent would then suggest that our UNIQUE creations in this medium are original enough and fixed enough to have those same protections. Should Marvel ever create a new character or an alternative look bearing such a likeness, *they* violated *that* work. Imagine the costly work for every new character (or alternate character appearance) that Marvel would have to do to avoid lawsuits. It would be crippling. They wouldn't want that ruling- they'd want a more narrowly-defined ruling that used some combination of appearance and text description/name. That would give them the freedom to reproduce a particular look without worrying that it might be too close to a deviantart image from 2007. BUT, the game doesn't create those parts-- the player does- so the player would likely need to be a party in the suit. Things don't go good for organizations that sue their fans, so it's done mostly in the most egregious (and/or profitable) situations. Now, keep in mind that I'm talking COPYRIGHT here. The courts largely rule that clothing alone cannot be copyrighted, but only in 2017 ruled elements or specific patterns that are unique or iconic enough might have copyright protections. The Superman S or the Batman logo would likely fall under that, but not generic coloration of tights and cape. The spider logo on the chest? Mmmm... keep in mind that there were other superheroes from other publishers that had this design BEFORE spider-man did. You see that with a lot of marvel's properties. Muscled green guy with purple pants? There's many green-skinned characters out there and the green/purple color combination was very popular for many different printing reasons so is hardly unique. Even something as iconic as Wolverine's retractable claws predates wolverine. To REALLY be a violation of their work, far more would be needed than just that. Then we have TRADEMARK- This is different- a different set of laws for a different purpose. Many superheroes' appearances have been registered as a mark of trade- something that's supposed to be unique enough in likeness that it's recognized for a particular brand in particular field(s). Many, if not most heroes name and likeness trademarked. There's a whole convoluted process you've got to do to protect and maintain your trademark-- too much to discuss here- but in one way, the comic companies may have been their own worst enemy for trademark dilution- their constant alternate-appearances. Trademarks don't usually change too much- think the nike swoosh or the major fanfare with a pepsi logo. Then look at superheroes and the bajillion spider man variants- what elements truly define the common mark of trade? Wolverine may be in yellow/blue, yellow/brown, leather jacket and jeans, white suit, and oh so many other variants. At some point, an argument can be made that they've so "diluted" the mark's recognizability that it's too broad for protection. For IP as big as Marvel, that's a decision they cannot risk. They'd rather rattle their sabres and take a settlement, but that requires you to sue someone with cash to spare. Again, none of this is to argue that Homecoming should not be doing their due diligence and generic'ing some players' fun. The ambiguity of the law (and their shallower pockets) still require it for their survival.

I currently roleplay "lite"- short walk-up encouters with little long-term impact. My availability in-game is too short. My availability to reliably RP outside of games (on discord and the forums) is far greater. I'll probably engage in more roleplay / round-robin storytelling there if I see interest. Anecdotally, Krimson's observation resonates with me. It FEELS like my characters have less RP walkup success when I have "no ERP" in the bio. That could just be the lenses of disappointment affecting the view, though. I've always felt that one of CoH's greatest strengths (the great support for alt-aholism) works against strong, persistent-story RP with friends. When other games encourage you to play one character for months on end, you develop a consistent face, with a consistent group, and better get the threads of a consistent story over time. If I try that here, there's less chance that the players' characters I RP'd with yesterday will be available to play tomorrow. The PLAYER might be online, but on a totally different alt in a totally different SG. (Alt-aholism DOES work good for short, themed events, though. I can quickly roll up a new character with a new look specificially to support a new event and its theme, but then that character is often shelved right after the event is done).