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Kanil

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About Kanil

  1. so, i was doin' a bit more testing yesterday to check bopper's theoretical string and yeah, pretty much coming to the same conclusions in terms of BS. adding any non-focus spending attack smooths out the awkwardness of EM's strings in terms of feel - when it's a snipe, it drastically improves the performance as well and gives the set a unique identity in how often you are doing ET and just shredding your HP. in sequences of good luck, your health just plummets alongside the pylon's, which is pretty hilarious and great feeling. pylon times: overall the ST results are pretty strong- it's still worse than WM but overall in ST damage results on scrappers it's probably in the top 3 overall - the moonbeam string seems to put it about even to TW and WM at the probable loss of having better AOE/general performance. given that TW has two sources of -res in it's string, it's probably arguable that it sits at the top or 2nd place spot (WM is really, really insane, haha) for ST damage. pretty cool, but it kinda sucks that the smooth feeling of that is related to just kinda forcing in an alternate attack to ignore the mechanics of the set, haha. i went ahead and also did some trapdoor testing (this is a live play/general AOE test done by clearing a regular mission) with it as well to see if it might be better than fireball since it's so much smoother than EM-only strings and gives you another good high-damage option that doesn't mess with your general strings. general starter is what you'd expect - run up, FT->fast ET->whirling hands->ball lightning->power crush. then clear up the trash left with faster attacks. EM/bio/mu scrapper 5m42s 5m18s 5m21s 5m18s 5m24s the performance is actually a bit above average, though i'm not quite sure why. power crush isn't really doing much as far as i can tell, so it's entirely on whirling hands + ball lightning and EM's ability to clean up scraps quickly.
  2. figured i'd crosspost my trapdoor testing for other sets alongside EM/bio/fire to compare. i'm curious if anyone is willing to try and compare their results. recently learned that the optimal string for TW is different (rather, it's the standard everyone uses than the one i use which i guess had the same results as that one) and found that the pylon times range from 1m5s to 1m35s. the average was around 1m20s~ across 20 or so pylons which is significantly better than the 1m40s average from string i was using prior. however, the reason why it has such great results kinda bugs me. it's related to the use of crit. strikes on follow through and how the standard string always ends in follow through-> non-momentum rend armor. because the non-momentum version of rend armor does so much more damage and follow through is always setting up crit strikes, you end up gaining a massive amount of damage compared to using rend armor inside the string as much as possible (as per the strings i've built) because of how much less damage the momentum-up version of follow through does. it really ties into that backwards feeling i was talking about re: momentum mechanics and how it feeds into weird situations re: optimization that feel 'backwards'. i'm sure it's probably fine overall since it's the output is generally OK usin' that string on scrappers. i'll have to do some brute testing, i guess. also need to run trapdoor with crit strikes in FT, but i can't imagine that it'd have better results than it being in AOD.
  3. okay, went ahead and did some live mission/aoe testing for EM scrapper vs. my other sets so try and compare them. i ended up trying to supplement the set's lack of great AOEs with fireball. as usual, my method was testing by running mender ramiel's defeat trapdoor mission at +4x8. all incarnates, similar rules to pylon testing where you don't use hybrid active nor lore pets - only destiny and yellow insps for the blinds that the arachnos do. you kill everything up to trapdoor except the popup turrets (this favors ranged by a lot to run off to the sides) and then waste trapdoor. timer starts when you self-buff w/ destiny or whatever, ends when trapdoor turns blue. why trapdoor? it has a good combination of enemies, is a straight line with room for enemies to flee still and a decently sturdy EB at the end. the general strategy was to open with TF (with crit strikes procced because it's got an insanely high chance to fire off), fireball, whirling hands, power crush (with focus on). that's pretty much it. you just keep doing that or go into ET/bonesmasher to pick off stragglers. if melt armor was up, i'd use it on the next possible group. times are as such: EM/bio/fire scrapper 6m34s - 1st run 5m44s 6m2s 5m48s 5m41s 5m43s 5m57s 5m21s 5m42s now, those are pretty meaningless by themselves without context, so here's a giant list of times i just ran on a bunch of chars: so, yeah. it seems pretty alright in AOE - pretty much middle of the road as far as i can tell. power crush is a bit disappointing for AOE purposes, but as a non-weapon set you have the advantage of not having to deal with redraw times for stuff, so it's something to consider re: picking up fireball or ball lightning. nothing too out of the blue there, i guess, but a tad disappointing when the ST results that i've been able to muster have been just kinda "ok"
  4. well, just spent the better part of the night pyloning with em/bio/fire scrapper, best time was 1m20s, worst time was 1m50s~ on the best string i've got so far. average around 1m40s (both mode and mean) probably killed about i dunno, 100 or so pylons? maybe more? it was a fucking lot, haha. i cleared out most of the map at least 5 times, i think? anyways, used the general lineup for incarnate stuff, t4 muscle core, t4 ageless core, t4 assault core (turned off), t4 degen core. the build itself is extremely proc heavy, but doesn't quite feel 'optimal' just yet. my string was: melt armor starter-> (( TF-> ET->BC->EP->PC))x n - you save build up for TF start string, don't use it immediately when it's up. melt armor as soon as it goes up again, which should be about 10-30s before you kill the plyon. overall the set feels pretty similar to fire melee in terms of output on a ST level over a sustained period of time, which is... weird, i guess? it definitely hits harder when things get lucky (and esp. in short bursts, incinerate DOT be damned), but overall the average time is pretty similar to my fire melee/bio tests, just with a faster best time (1m20s flat vs 1m27s). it's like.. there generally is no major damage spike that occurs based off crits, it's just a slow burn string that you do until they die, with luck factoring into the crits on the lesser powers. there's a really bizarre aspect to building/strings that is really hard to ignore after awhile, that i think is probably the source of some folk's anguish? i haven't really read the EM thread so i've got no idea how much this has been addressed but i'm guessing probably quite a bit given how you can feel it when trying to optimize strings. specifically, it's that to optimize the string, you actively want to avoid setting up crit strikes to follow into two strongest powers in the set. since TF and ET don't really do anything for your damage (in the same vein as a crit) when they crit, it's actually a massive (20-40s minimum just slotting crit strikes differently) damage/time loss for sustained DPS when you do that. it feels like, backwards against how you optimize strings in other sets where you generally want to have crit strikes fire off before you use your two biggest hitting attacks (unless the anim time is obscene, like eagle's claw). the hyperbole to it is like, "boy, these crits feel worthless" but it's not like i've really gone and done any fighting against live enemy sets yet, so i've no idea if that feeling transfers over to something out of just nonstop sustained ST (which would theoretically be EM's forte, i guess) i'm not sure how i feel about the ST performance just yet since the string i'm running just feels super unoptimal but i'd have to really fiddle with the slotting on powers to mess with that. something just feels 'wrong' about it. i have a good feeling about the AOE though, because power crush kept swatting enemies way off to my side during testing when they'd run up - if it's possible to do something like crit strikes-> fireball->whirling hands-> power crush as a consistent string, there's probably a lot of juice AOE-wise. i'll do some trapdoor testing another day, but figured i'd report my testing and see if anyone else was getting that vibe.
  5. how would you feel about non momentum attacks having their damage overall lowered but momentum keeping the same damage on its attacks? i'm sure this was tested/considered since it's such an occam's razor answer, but is it one of those things where it skews off The Formula too much to keep a decent balance between the two? the rift between "its a buff because better dpa" and "why is my damage per attack being lowered when the mechanic thematically is a giant sword accelerating" is a pretty real thing to consider, especially with the additional layer of "i just did build up/bm and now my attacks do less damage...?" kinda feelin'
  6. it's universal as far as i can tell, between the brute and scrapper i've got. i can record video of it, but the 'no video' rule makes it kind of a problem to share, haha. it's not only on initial draw as well - if the weapon is drawn on live, it still has the 4s~ cast time
  7. sorry, no idea how to tag folks so i'm quoting you: any idea if non-momentum crushing blow acting the way it is in beta (being 2s activation time instead of ~4s on live) is a result of the redraw fix? or if it's a bug or somethin'? curious if that's one of those weird side effects where the 'proper' activation time (it's always listed as 2s) comes into play with the fix rather than whatever is going on with the live version edit: probably not doing any favors for the case to buff fire melee (it needs it) but, lol: started adding in melt armor into my clearing times and turns out i can match/beat live TW trapdoor times with a helping of fireball. what a power, man that was the first run i did with melt armor, too! with a fuckup where i ran out of endurance!
  8. the reason you can't do the string is related to the crushing blow change. on live, crushing blow's momentum begins when the animation is finished while the sped-up version of crushing blow in the beta actually has momentum begin when the attack "hits" in the animation, which still has an additional second or so of animation time left before you can swing. so you're losing about a second of momentum uptime. honestly though, at the moment it's better to just do AOD last so you can get the crit strikes proc going off for the non-momentum version of crushing blow. anyhow, it definitely feels a bit weird to me to see all these posts commenting on tsuko's results going "see, tw is still top tier!" without really addressing my own testing, but i guess that doesn't really fit that viewpoint, haha. using proc-based builds to determine high-end strength/tiering, especially in the scope of pyloning has always been one of those things i've wondered about - i've got personal times on pylons with battleaxe dipping into the 1m5s range and broadsword times dipping into the 1m18s range but it's like, conventionally those powersets aren't seen as "top tier", for good reason. when it comes to high-end builds, a lot of the conventional 'tier' knowledge seems to go out the door but there's always a desire to just try and shove those results into that scope without really considering other factors.
  9. is this actually like, true? what even were the paid powersets, 'cuz between stj, tw and staff you got TW tier, stj bein' OK (only great on stalkers after ATOs are considered) and staff uh, being extremely bad. what were the ranged sets? beam rifle and water? beam rifle was like, real, real bad before SCORE, wasn't it? 2/5 doesn't feel like a trend to me anyways, did a bit more testing and yeah, TW got hit pretty bad. in terms of my extremely narrow scope of chars/builds, i hate to say that i really can't see a great reason to actually pick it over practically any other powerset at the moment given how much damage is weighted at that level vs. mitigation. the additional layers of mitigation it adds basically do nothing, and way more flexible (in terms of being able to smoothly play in live scenarios and power choice/slotting wise) sets are available and better. like... almost every single melee powerset i've tested is either equal or better than TW in terms of both AOE and ST performance at the moment. i'm not really sure how i feel about high-end tw being roughly good as high-end broadsword, haha. i know folks are out for blood so they'll be fine as long as it gets it's knees broken so i figure there won't be as much of an outcry, but i might as well provide a "realistic" perspective in terms of high-end performance that TW is being specifically called out for also, in my additional testing, the main thing that actually adds to the smoothness of TW is the change to crushing blow. the other changes ultimately don't seem to do much to smooth things out at that high-end besides making TW more similar feeling to other powersets (the vibe i get instead of giant momentum death top i.e. guts from berserk is more like... 'slightly slower katana', haha). i'd imagine in SO and mid-level IO builds that the buffs probably smooth out the experience a lot more since double whirling smash will be more available to them, but it's definitely notable.
  10. for reference, just tested a few trapdoor runs with kat/bio as well and was hitting around 5m30~s on those runs (with huge fuckups!), so beta tw is also worse than kat/bio in the aoe department as well, meaning it's overall output is worse than that set too. ofc, it has more mitigation but those kat/bio runs included having to deal with healing more/using parasitic aura more anyways
  11. trapdoor testing, same build as above: rules are basically the same shit as pylons: destiny OK, no judgement, assault off, only insp allowed is yellow (for blind because lol night widows/tarantula mistresses). kill everything except the pop-up guns (this skews ranged too much results-wise), start the timer on pre-combat destiny. stop timer when trapdoor goes blue. the reason i always wanted vids is because player skill/positioning and enemy management are factors that come into play for live play and in this mission, and often times discrepancies can be accounted for based on that. beta: 6m42s - initial run, had to get used to new AOE string/remember the feel. 5m12s 5m22s 6m7s (enemy scattering) 6m1s (spent time healing due to -def from t.mistresses) 5m42s (the hell is with all the x:x2 enders?) live: 5m24s 4m48s 4m51s 4m54s 5m18s mission wouldn't reset so ended here but i'm pretty sure i can dip into the lower 4m times on ideal runs - all of the runs on live had a lot of hitches from healing, blind and enemy scattering. for reference, i ran a quick test on my ba/bio scrapper and got a time of 5m44s, which is above average but not 'great' as my fortunata and ice/bio chars tend to get around 5m to sub 5m times as well. immediate impressions are that the QOL changes are really notable, as is the buff to crushing blow (if it's intentional?)) - playing on the test server in terms of 'strings' feels a lot smoother because of the drastically increased recharge times, but the actual attacks themselves are significantly worse by a large margin. so it's weaker, but smoother (as intended). the actual scale of the damage loss is pretty significant as far as i can tell - a large part of it is that crit strikes-> whirling smash as an opener doesn't wipe out most of the crowd so you end up having to chase enemies around more since they'll start scattering due to the lowered radius on whirling smash.
  12. doin' some pyloning right now so excuse the mess 'cuz i'm just gonna chaospost the times i'm getting. one of the big factors of the TW changes is how the optimal strings are changed - rather than having to juggle anything you can basically just do FT-RA-AOD-FT-RA over and over again which is kinda hilarious i guess. but since a lot of TW's damage came from maximizing optimal strings, judging strings 1:1 seems weird, but i figure i'd throw them out there as a reference for a few shots. testing the string i currently do on live yields: 1m48s 1m49s 2m2s 1m49s 1m44s 1m49s testing possible new optimal string based off understanding of old move properties (basically maximimze RA->FT use): (bm-> ft->ra->aod->ft->ra->aod->ft into ra->ft->aod->cb->ft) 1m46s 1m46s 1m42s 1m55s 1m58s testing w/ using alternate string using crushing blow crit (CB->FT->RA->AOD -wait- non-momentum CB) 1m37s 1m41s 1m33s ...maybe not so optimal, haha. i'd imagine a lot of the difference in the build between the one tsuko is using and mine relates to a heavier use of procs on the moves to retain the damage that was originally just done through the set itself - the primary source of damage on the live version is from crit FT/RA, which appears to be heavily lowered. i also noticed that crushing blow appears to have it's non-momentum activation time roughly halved? it's significantly faster than live, because it's messing with my strings quite a bit (due to how fast it is, hilariously). due to that and the way momentum reduces damage at the moment, it seems that the best way to increase damage on my bio scrapper build specifically is to have the non-momentum version of crushing blow crit/proc as much as possible. feels backwards, but what can ya do? comparison to prior pylon times on the same build in the pylon thread proper: as for "non-pylon content" shit, i always run +4/x8 tests using the trapdoor mission from mender ramiel on my builds to get a good feel for their overall power level since it seems like more or less a decent standard - it's got mostly council/arachnos, a simple layout, and an EB who is just beefy enough at the end of the map, gotta carry some yellows due to the blind, but otherwise it feels pretty consistent for a power gauge. i'll run some testin' for that as well, but i never kept record for that since i really wanted to make a thread where folks could showcase their builds doin' general runthroughs of that with vids (as to make sure the standards line up). so far a sliiiightly standard tw/bio build (vs. nihlii's proc-based build) got dumpstered pretty bad in the ST department. it's producing results that are worse than proc'd out broadsword and a standard katana build by a large margin. the nerf to damage in momentum seems to be the biggest culprit, but that's up to folks who pay more attention than me
  13. yeah, that's why i was askin' about that. all the vids in my thread are pre-ban, so they should be in the clear since the rules were like, "after x date no vids please" appreciate the heads up, though!
  14. yeah, the ppm thing is absolutely strange to me because of that specifically... i really wonder where the idea even comes from that ppm needs fixing. practically every single build i've got on here leverages the ppm system to either close the gap between mid and top tier powersets or really abuses it (see the non-proc wm build vs the procced up wm build). it's worrying because it feels like there's a really insane disconnect somewhere in what high end builds are like vs some worry about 'things being logical outliers/not following a standard set of rules'. even without the spectre of TW hanging over tier performances, it actually widens the gap between things like WM and well, uh, everything below WM in terms of performance. i wouldn't be surprised to find in proper testing that in a world where the ppm stuff is heavily nerfed/weakened, WM having a larger gap to whatever the second best set would be (likely still DB by my guess?) than TW does to WM, except WM has no caveat like TW does in how flexible it is in live play. one of the big things about a potential ppm nerf that generally goes overlooked beyond high-spec builders is that scrappers rely on being able to leverage ppm to actually keep pace with stalkers and brutes - without it, they're kind of a dead end. many of the relevant stalker sets already outperform scrappers by quite a large margin in both ST and AOE without really 'sacrificing' anything besides a taunt aura. also, a WM build actually doesn't need to sacrifice any of that stuff for those kinds of results. i wouldn't be surprised if that snipe was actually a total net loss for damage since that was the case in my testing with DB and BS, but it's something i've only incidentally tested. i've actually posted twice in this thread getting better or close to results to your stuff using both a traditional non-proc build without having to rely on any epic power pools at all. honestly, in my live play of the powersets i'd actually pick wm over tw like 90% of the time due to how much tw actually suffers in speedrun/strong teams in comparison to WM generally being able to contribute more overall, but that's a pretty specific niche that i'd imagine most players don't really delve into (and that wouldn't be balanced around anyways). the better output on TW, even if it is a definitive outlier just ends up being like... not substantial unless you are carrying the team yourself - the speed in which stuff gets wrecked is such a huge issue, haha. i actually also find SS to be in a weird spot because of this as well - SS is practically worthless for speed purposes because of the amount of downtime you have (near 20% downtime) actively being detrimental to the team on top of the general +dmg woes that come with the territory but in casual teams that crash is totally negligible. that's just a tangent on something that's bound to get nerfed for being an "overpowered outlier" that just don't really tack with my experience as well, though. anyways, here's both of the post in case if you're lookin for vid evidence. i'm not actually sure if i have the builds on hand anymore, but they're not really that wild.
  15. wait, are vids ok to post now? just checking to make sure you don't get jacked for that. 'cuz if they are, i'd totally post my own performances to showcase my stuff, even if the char's still at t3s
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