Kanil

the battle between "why tho" and "it's not a big deal except for when it is because the game should be harder" rages on in this thread and i approve i don't have any actual feedback because i aint playin anyways but i appreciate the clubhouse warriors and the random player warriors one and the same actually i'm assuming this is gonna be used for some future hardmode shit where everything is functionally similar arachnoids or something like that and that'll be funny to see as well so sure why not

you cannot convince me scrapper staff isn't butts, lemme see them times

ma/bio/mu scrapper t4 muscle t3 degen t3 assault (off) avg: 1m32s times: weird variance. mostly related to how a missed eagle kick will screw you over and rng gods hating you at times. it's a pretty wack build with like 28% defense but it's pretty funny. still not really "great" but it's passable enough, like BS. procs, bio and crit snipe do a lot to really carry the dead weight on the set. video:

scrapper martial arts/bio/mu t3 muscle core, t3 ageless core (radial branchoff for 90s recov), t1 degen avg: 4m49s times: video: the time discrepancies are primarily due to boss placements - the 4m26 and 4m35 runs didn't have the additional boss at the end so they ran by overall smoother. regardless, it's still a surprising result. the consistency on eagle claw in activating crit strikes alongside how quickly dragon tail comes up means that the amount of crit AOEs just kinda keeps comin', which makes the aoe firepower aspect better than expected. if you can get some good clumping into the 8ft aoe of dragon's tail, you can really make do with it. pretty surprising and a fun lil showcase of how the crit strikes proc and where it's placed + how it meshes with the AOEs can make a big difference. my preemptive pylon testing is on the weirder side though, because the times are astonishingly bad for a set that's supposed to be ST focused in the same vein that like, energy melee is.

is there a chart for the best DPS sets, like in raw DPS i'm tryin to get some post christmas chuckles

it has all of em bad habits are somehow passed along

sorry, no dice. i actually just put my times in notepad and then copy/paste 'em here. if you wanna put the times in that's cool but don't sweat it either, haha

looking at it, it should perform better than my build... i think? are you able to record a video of your run? it may just be a playstyle difference after all.

there are 3 potential boss spawn points - the first crowd always has 2, the middle crowd can sometimes have one, and the 2nd to last crowd can sometimes have one. there's variance caused by that which is why i generally like to at least get a couple of samples to try and get high/low range variations.

i'm perfectly cool with whatever anyone posts, haha. a lot of this is my curiosity and keeping a record of my own comparisons instead of eyeballing it. the main reason i don't use judgement in my own personal end is because how much it can drastically affect times based on group layout and where you use it. it's like... 'how much am i getting from a comparison point between the sets if i'm using it?' - i don't feel confident going '[x] is better than [x]' with that added, especially if you start factoring in different judgements and hybrids and all that, haha. i only checked it between a few sets before i made the decision to not use it but it really ends up feelin' like it's not a strong comparison point between effectiveness of sets when it's factored in. it introduces massive variance on where you use it - like, up to 2 minute levels of variance.

ended up making of the few melee powersets i haven't made on a whim. rad armor is hilariously good, but wow, i'm genuinely surprised at 'bad' electric melee is when it comes to synergy with scrappers. it's like, anti-synergy. repulsion. chain induction chains not critting, lightning rod not critting, the attacks generally having extremely poor damage (barring LR), the pathetic radius on thunderstrike - it's wild how many aspects of this powerset actively work against the advantages that scrapper crit strikes normally gives for powersets. elec melee/rad armor/mu average: 6m video: by a first glance on paper you would expect elec melee/rad to blow a lot of sets out of the water because of the combination of LR + rad therapy + GZ but LR just isn't up enough and somehow doesn't do enough damage or have a big enough radius to really let you go berserk with it. the other garbage powers in the set extremely don't make up for it and actively cause slowdowns due to how pathetic the ST is in the set. as expected, rad armor is also crazy as hell though and ends up extremely heavily carrying elec melee's extremely poor performance overall on scrapper. sheesh. at least the character and powers look cool as hell.

pendulum has a lower target cap compared to crowd control - 5 vs 10 alongside having 1ft less radius. so the two 'standout' powers are significantly better. war mace also has significantly better compatibility with the scrapper crit strikes ATO due to jawbreaker's higher activation time and recharge - it's actually easier to get the gapless optimal string on WM than it is on BA due to how flexible/slow jawbreaker->clobber->shatter/jawbreaker->CC->whirling is in terms of requiring recharge time vs BA's chop->swoop->cleave/chop->pendulum->whirling on a truly optimized wm build i'm pretty sure you can bring pylon times consistently deep into the 1:00-1:20 range while axe sits in the 1:20-1:40 range

street justice/bio/mu scrapper t3 muscle core, t4 destiny core, t3 assault radial (inactive) avg: 1m49s the variation is so high because of how much crit snipe+ crushing uppercut with build up + gaussian's does, haha. got a lot of freak runs but overall the 'normal' performance is pretty godawful. i've never seen this many 2m+ times on a bio scrapper before!

sadly there's not - i post often in both threads and all the results in the title are my own but the performance preference out of my builds tend to lean towards damage than surviving (i just use purples to compensate from 32% def). like, the characters/builds are usually the same or similar on my pylon posts and trapdoor posts since i do all my testing on actual servers and not the test server so that's pretty much the main reference point. that's also the reason there's no WM trapdoor time, haha. gutted that character to make it into a battleaxe character out of my own preference despite WM being the obvious number one overall melee powerset for performance overall. for 'overall top tier sets when going for lvl50' my own judgement goes like, 1. WM 2.energy melee 3. claws/db tie (EM has better perf in team conditions and big +dmg conditions) 4. TW (note this is scrapper only due to FT ATO slotting allowing for ST damage) 5.katana (ato in gd, gc->sd->gc->gd string). if you're looking for something that is just unconditionally strong regardless of what is happening, WM, claws and katana would be my picks due to their stability - EM, TW and DB all have something that can make em not flow as well on good teams (em dmg relating to slow anims, TW momentum/slow anim times, DB in general requires HUGE amounts of recharge to get to top tier perf so comes with an asterisk) anyways, made a stj char on a whim after someone was talkin about praetoria bein super hard so i decided to see if i could make it through deathless and then went nuts on the char after gettin out of praetoria. street justice/bio/mu scrapper avg: 5m28s i'm honestly surprised how much work that spinning strike and sweeping cross can do. this build is extremely tight on slotting and i kinda get the feelin' street justice is really mid tier (worse overall perf than broadsword?) on non-stalkers which is hilarious given how many times i've had people post 'street justice is a p2w set' at me. for cross reference record, the pylon time average for this build is 1m49s, with the 'normal' perf times often breaking into the 2m+ range

ended up slotting out my archery character. archery sucks, wow. tac arrow is still pretty amazing though - the amount of CC it provides allows for a lot of stability combined with the ranged aoes of archery. definitely my most stable blaster character in terms of runs just because of the combo of tac arrow and the low recharge on rain of arrows+weak damage on archery allowing for a nuke every single group due to how long it takes to kill them, haha. archery/tactical arrow blaster avg: 9m3s video: runs:

lol, yeah, i guess MMs are so out of my mind that i didn't even consider how they would be affected by the layout of the map. probably not a great check for them! i bet hoverblasting specifically probably has an issue too since there's no overhead space to stay safe from attacks. as for accoaldes/p2w mutation, i usually try to avoid those and temps for skewing but honestly it's kinda whatever most of the time anyways so i don't think it's a big deal. just making note of them works like a, 'right, this can change up some stuff' reminder

yeah i figured people would just mute the vids, haha. i usually play muted but for recorded vids i tend to turn sfx on. the rule is mostly for convenience sake - stuff like tactics and focused accuracy is usually good for that, but it's basically my own comparison point to i feel like picking up random insps and huffing them into reds can skew the results more vs 'sometimes i gotta use a yellow insp when i'm blinded'. it's not meant to be huffing yellows down 100% of the time or whatever. a more fair comparison would probably just totally disable inspirations but being blind 100% of the time there's a night widow feels weird because it feels like i'll probably have a yellow to stop blind. it's definitely one of those things where focused acc/target drone doesn't get as much benefit as it would but in my own experience the main places where they really shine isn't really stopping blind insomuch as being able to shit on carnies despite them just dropping a billion -tohit on you.

quoting myself bc since vids are unbanned i decided to record 1 attempt of each and they ended up with the exact same time on both stalker and scrapper, lol

okay, just recorded first runs of just about everything i could. playlist is here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRcxfxypPPGjsGMnEwDzswMxGqKDniZcl show me your gatdam runs!

yep! been recording a bunch of first attempts. forgot to turn off xp in a lot of them, but shrug i've done just about every single thing posted on here except the variations. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRcxfxypPPGjsGMnEwDzswMxGqKDniZcl

rad/bio/mu scrapper t4 muscle/degen/ageless core/assault radial off recovery serum used avg: 1m42s so, this build has... some real big caveats - it's only permahasten with ageless AND applications of FF from radioactive smash. it's so end heavy that it needs to use recovery serum for prolonged ST strings if there's no parasitic aura. it has crit strikes on devastating blow so your opener is slow as fuck. it's passable enough when it comes to ST damage and super fun in live play ultimately because of how much damage devastating blow like, does (and crit atom smasher->ball lightning) but it's definitely the roughest ride i've had on a bio scrapper in terms of end management. the string is devastating blow->rad smash->rad siphon->zapp, alternated with DB->smash->siphon->smash->zapp. there's a build up proc in zapp that fires off bizarrely regularly, so that has to be accounted for too. overall a super, super proc heavy build with tons of issues related to how much proccing has to be done to get the powers up to par damage wise.

so here's something vaguely interesting. rad/bio/mu scrapper with ball lightning and zapp instead of fireball. this build is more realistic, with 31% s/l def but it has a massive endurance issue if not actively using siphon DNA/paraistic aura AND t4 ageless core. rad/bio/mu scrapper with ball lightning and zapp instead of fireball. t4 muscle core/ageless core/degen core t3 hybrid assault (off) avg: 4m38s times so here's something strange. the average is VERY consistently slower than using fireball (fireball usually has 4m20 times avg) but it's just heinously solid overall. very low variation upwards, with random dip on the first run downwards. i can't place why, but ball lightning despite being statistically so similar to fireball just seems to produce 'worse' results than things that hit immediately. i wonder why that is.

savage/bio/fire scrapper t4 muscle, t3 ageless, t3 degen, t3 assault (off) avg: 2m2s times: string is vicious (w/ strikes) -> savage -> maiming -> savage. throw in savage leap when it's up and melt armor when it's up. interestingly/annoyingly, the build up (blood thirst) is surprisingly a factor in the weakness of the sustained DPS/dmg - mostly because of the lower damage boost and absurdly long anim time (2s!). any time gaussian's doesn't proc on it, it's just straight up a damage/time loss in the long run. it's strange, because you'd think the slightly longer (15s) timeframe for the much smaller (46%) damage buff (vs 10s/100% default on reg. build ups) might make up for it, but like most alternate 'build up' replacements it unfortunately doesn't. i actually went out of my way to test diff strings and slottings by including hemo since it got "fixed" on scrappers and it's still garbage, sadly. the crit works, but does so little damage vs. just doing the regular string that it's an active time loss averaging about 10-15s to include hemo in strings. that's not accounting for how awful it is to use in live play where the super long tick means it's effectively worthless vs. most targets - basically nothing besides EBs/AVs will live long enough for the damage to matter and the damage on the move is so spread out that regen ticks really fuck it up anyways vs. being able to burst out big amounts of damage. i've noticed a very big factor to notice in terms of comparing scrapper performance between pretty similarly slotted sets to push out as much damage as possible and it's how crit strikes + build up interact to create massive spikes of damage that really account for large time gains in performance - savage is unable to take advantage of crit strikes (due to having poor ST power choices/power choices in general to slot it) decently on top of having a poor man's build up so the effect is doubled over - this is the weakest scrapper primary i've tested, though i've no doubt the obvious other picks of like, KM, staff, and spines are all probably worse.

19.03 - slightly diff spot and lower on the list. anyways, made a savage/bio because i'm an insane person i guess. been wondering about this for awhile. it's okay, i guess - good AOE timing but the ST is kinda miserable. pylon times average a little over 2m with some dips into the 1m55s range. really annoying. savage/bio/fire (fireball) scrapper t4 muscle t3 ageless/degen/assault (off) avg time: 4m55s times:

generally they're not used but if you wanna run tests with 'em go nuts. it'll just be a weird sense of scale for comparison since none of the other tests are usin' em.