Marbing

Welcome Back! 😄

This sounds to me like a team that may have been lacking in strategy or decent support to help keep people alive. There are any number of reasons a team will wipe: bad luck, bad strategy, poor team synergy, poor teamwork, no communication, too many toons with poor slotting, etc etc. Sounds like you have a decent Defender though, so kudos, I bet it is a fun toon to play! Tanking isn't just about soaking up damage. Keep that in mind. @Koopak pointed out more than just the toughness to make this distinction, something to consider. He wasn't doing this at all. To be clear he was pointing out how these ATs were built by the original devs. They all have specific scalars and indexes that allow them to thrive in different roles. To your point it doesn't mean they HAVE to fill those roles, but it is where they are going to have an advantage compared to other ATs. Also, this change doesn't mean a Defender on the team MUST be support. No where in the change does it say that anywhere. It just says they would count towards the "support" category in the event you are going for that extra 1 PA per day. You can bring your Defender and tank/dps/control all you want, but the bonus will have them filling the slot of support. That is all. It doesn't tell you how to play it. The character creation screen literally lists Defender as support. New players are already seeing this when they create their first characters. The original devs specifically designed Defenders to be really good at support. Hence all their support indexes being super high. Does that mean the game doesn't allow you to use your Defender in other ways? No, of course not, I believe the majority of us agree with you and others on that point. I have plenty of Tanky Corruptors that have no issues soloing +4/x8 content. I also have several Blappers that are tanky as well. But I also have Tanks, and they are much better at actual tanking (and aggro management) than my Corruptors or my Blasters. Why? Because that is how they are built. I leaned into the AT's strengths. Their high HP, their higher res caps, their higher threat, their inherent that is built for more aggro, their Taunt power in their secondary powerset, etc etc. Tankers are literally designed from head to toe to Tank. But, guess what? I also have a DPS Tank, who is less effective as a traditional Tank but does some pretty decent AoE DPS and he does just fine as well. If I joined a team with that Tank, under this current suggested change, he would fill the "role" of tank for the purposes of the bonus... but it wouldn't change how I play him. This being said, as I have said before, if this change does go through it would be better implemented if AT's filled the roles represented on the character creation screen. You could set it up in a way that would still require 5 different roles from 5 different AT's, which would still serve the purpose of role diversity, it would just be more consistent with what we see from the start of character creation and be a little easier to fill a team out and still get the bonus. Anyways I have probably responded on this particular thread more than necessary and more than I originally wanted, haha. I have made all the points that I felt needed to be made. I'll leave this be for now and see how this develops as Open Beta moves forward.

Its possible control gets fixed in the future so that it does have more of a place in a team setting, I am holding out hope. Its a dream of mine... one day control will be... set free... Anyways, this set does need some love. Lets see what the next round of notes show has changed, but for now here is what I see: 1) The -dmg in Tear Gas should be moved to Sleep Grenade. If the target is held, the -dmg is useless, if they are not held... its just a 20 sec -dmg on a super long recharge, not really worth it. It would be more useful in Sleep Grenade. 2) Sleep Grenade needs a faster recharge if its going to maintain its place in the tier list as a level 1 pick. Or it needs to be swapped around with Cryo Freeze Ray. You could end up with quite a rough grind if you chose Sleep Grenade at level 1 on a Controller. Albeit a safe one, so there is that. 3) Liquid Nitrogen could have a check added to it for "when target is asleep apply immobilize instead". Not for long, just an intermittent immob for the duration of the patch. It already checks for sleep so that it doesn't wake them up. This would give the set a nice 1 2 combo and give it the immob it needs to help the set shine. If you don't move in a patch of liquid nitrogen, your feet may get stuck to the ground. So, from a logic perspective, it works. But I understand this would be a pretty large fundamental change to the set. This wasn't my idea, I saw it elsewhere and don't remember who posted it but I don't want to take credit for it. 4) Smoke Can needs its confuse duration increased to be more reliable, its a power with so much potential that seems to fall flat it my testing on harder difficulty settings. It doesn't last quite long enough. Sometimes enemies will get confused and before they can attack their allies they are unconfused and attack me then get confused again only to become unconfused before their next attack and attack me again... Its quite a frustrating little loop they can get stuck in. Again, this is all from my testing and seeing others talk about it as well. I do understand that this is a micro level suggestion and there is a more macro picture to consider, especially with possible future changes down the line (I am not aware of any, to be clear, I just understand its common among development teams that there may be a roadmap we can't see). Anyways, that is my feedback on the set so far.

So to summarize, the people against this are afraid of the following happening: 1) It will ruin the spirit of the game by forcing people to play certain roles. 2) It will add way too many more PA into the market, which will cause a negative disruption of some kind. 3) It will cause people to be booted from teams at a much higher rate than before by team leaders chasing the bonus (which is limited to 1 PA per character per 18 hours). Is there anything I am missing? I am not saying I agree with these points. I am trying to clarify in a succinct way what the current fears around this change are. We have 7 pages of this so I felt it would be a good idea to consolidate those fears, for anyone just joining.

Thank you for the feedback, I will consider it for any future patterns. Keep in mind some areas of the body are tricky to get right because of the way the texture is mapped to the model. So you may see a common theme were some areas of the body are avoided to reduce the complexity.

Hello Doc! I have run thousands (maybe not thousands idk but it feels like it and may not actually be an exaggeration) of DFBs and literally can count on one hand the number of times this missed badge caused anything more than an “oh well we will get it next time”. I suspect it will be the same for this bonus as well. As far as WSF that isn’t the same as this because you are getting double the reward for completing a SF/TF than you normally would which is often a much bigger reward than 1 prismatic. You see this more when the WSF is something that normally nets 30+ (which becomes 60+ when doubled) merits than you do with the lower ones. While that often translates to the same people speed running those TFs over and over on that week, it doesn’t eliminate the still vast amount of teams doing other content, because they don’t care about the extra reward…. Also the farming “nerf” is a bit apples to oranges, and look at all the long term effects it caused once people realized it wasn’t as big a deal as they initially feared…. People still farm… a lot, and people still ask to be farmed… a lot. I get the fear, I do. I just don’t agree it will be that bad. Hey PF! Been a minute, hope you’re well. To be clear on your math here: 1000 players over 1000 days would be 1,000,000 extra prismatic over a 3ish year time span? Which translates to 3,000,000,000,000 extra inf (at the current rate) in the economy over that 3 year span? Which again translates to about 1 Billion extra influence per player per year if everyone sold all of them. This doesn’t include players using them… Keep in mind supply and demand, with more prismatic in the market the cost will go down overall and then likely spike with every new prismatic content release before settling again. I suspect over time these will go down quite significantly. BUT your argument isn’t without merit, something to think on.

Fear is a powerful motivator. I am on the side of let it roll and see what happens. It can always be adjusted later. The bonus isn’t huge, and it’s one prismatic per day… if it’s taken away I don’t think people will miss it.

I think one thing that is being lost in here, because I keep seeing it brought up, is that this change wouldn't pigeonhole or force anyone into any role. Just because the game says Defender is typically support doesn't mean you are forced to play it as support. It just means it would be represented as support for the purposes of the bonus. The character creation screen already lists Defender under support and that hasn't done anything to force anyone playing a Defender to only ever be support. That choice is entirely up to the player, the powersets/powers they choose and/or the style in which they play their character.

Let’s count the yays and nays and go with majority here.

Which I can understand as it’s similar logic to giving any bonuses to origins. It would push people in certain directions. But this isn’t entirely that, if the requirement is lowered to not needing all 5 you will end up with what many teams already look for anyways. However I can see how some would be like “we already have 5 blasters, we need a defender for the bonus, sorry corruptor!” Adding more roles to ATs could solve that and lowering the requirement to achieve it. I see no issue with it in that case but that’s just my opinion and majority rules.

FWIW I like the idea. It’s a free bonus that encourages versatility without requiring it. Often times you will end up with this without thinking about it. Maybe to make it easier to achieve, require less. Like just 3 of the 5 roles? EDIT: Teams often seek at least one support and a tank to go with their damage anyways.

Role Versatility Bonus or Team Versatility Bonus That’s my input. 😁

I see what you mean, but isn't bile spray more of a vomit attack anyway? I think it works here for that power. Arctic breath though should stay slower, otherwise it’s arctic sneeze.

Sure! Here you go! BARS: TECHNOPATH:

Those new patterns are fantastic. Whomever did those is probably a genius…

I demand justice… …and cookies!

Okay.

Okay, well…. I never said it was a bad and unnecessary suggestion, I just said it may completely erase SOs. Also, while I agree the game is not really balanced around SOs anymore, to say that they aren’t at all useful now is just objectively false. No, you don’t need them all the way up to 22 (true) and I certainly rarely use them, but I know people that don’t just rush to 50 who do use them (because sub 22 they are the best and only real option you have to make your character stronger). All I am saying is that @macskullsuggestion would likely completely replace them for what little use they currently have, which I never said was a bad thing. Maybe SOs do need to go the way of the dinosaur? It’s a valid stance, but then again they are already here, so why not make them more useful? Options options options…

I made the same point in the paragraph you quoted, but while it is true that you could it doesn’t mean everyone does. There are certainly players who take advantage of SO’s right now. My concern was more about why would SO’s even need to exist if the proposed suggestion went through. I know they would be slightly stronger but they would likely be less cost effective given the need to cycle them out. I would imagine a lot of players would just forgo them in favor of IOs just because at least they are static and it’s not like you need a huge boost sub 22 anyways.

I would be concerned about the impact it would have on the overall usefulness of SO's. Why slot any at all? It is more cost effective in the long run to just buy the IO's and push to 50 than to constantly recycle SO's. I get that not everyone could afford this out of the gates but we aren't talking about a huge investment and once you get one level 50 you can very easily fund another toon with the 2-3 million INF needed to get all the IO's they would need all the way to 50. SO's currently serve as the best option for pre-lvl 22 (which is when you can get lvl 25 IO's), and the game is easy enough that you could argue you don't need any enhancements at all until then. But, it isn't a bad idea to have enhancements pre-22 if you are trying to take your time through the process (which is a valid point, and is where SO's come in handy) as it will definitely make life easier for you and make you far more useful on teams. If IO's are stronger pre-25 than they are now I think that niche usefulness of SO's would be nearly eliminated. So at that point why even have them at all? NOTE: I know that they would technically still be more effective (slightly) but not effective enough to make up for the constant recycling. If this suggestion were to go in maybe SO's should be dropped in price to compensate and keep them as a good cheap option pre-22, or even beyond? Just thinking.... I want to be clear, I am not disagreeing with you, I just want clarification on how you feel it will affect SO's in the long run. I could very easily be missing something or have misunderstood your post. I have a tendency to do that. Everything else is a great idea, IMO. Your math makes sense, boosters do need to be tuned down a tad, and the set bonuses for lower level sets do need to be adjusted.

Yes vote. I would never use it, but it's not an unreasonable request.

I vote yes for this. But I think it needs to be a broader balance sweep for all GMs to have their merit rewards adjusted based on time, effort, and difficulty. Not asking for reward creep, just want all GMs to give their fair share of merits. This will increase interest in the often avoided/ignored GMs.

Regen is great on a brute because the sacrifices you need to make in order to make it tough aren’t as felt as they are on scrappers and stalkers. It still needs to be looked at, especially on stalkers. EDIT: At very minimum regen needs to be nearly immune to -regen. Just like SR is to -def. Also, what’s lost in the numbers is the negative impact regen has on your DPS output, whether it is through build sacrifice to make it have decent durability or simply through the sheer number of clickies you have to spam to stay alive thus interrupting your attack chain.

Regen needs love. Scaling regen as hp gets lower. Combine recovery/fast healing. Should have stupid high -regen resistance (just like SR does for -defense). Make resilience have a very high resistance boost that gets lower sharply as your health declines. To help against being one shot. MoG kind of already helps with this but it would be a cool/unique function. Stuff like that. These are just a few ideas I have had take them or leave them. It can fixed, just needs a retool. I am not suggesting it needs all the above changes, just a few things I thought would be cool to see changed.

Any chance we could get some female MM pets? Like female thugs, female mercs, female ninjas... I know the complications surrounding MM Pets, and I am not asking to be able to customize necessarily (though that would be nice too, but it has already been suggested), just looking to have some females mixed in with those males or even the option to have all females if possible. Whatever can be done easily (if at all). What y'all think?