Buffy Barritt

Quite all right Impervium, I've learned something valuable here. I won't be pursuing a ticket. Thanks for letting us talk it out.

You're probably right biostem. But here's the thing: if our community as a whole just lacks a sense of human decency - if the community is toxic all the time and abuse and harassment are the norms - then the only thing left to do is give up on organized RP and leave. You can go anywhere and be mistreated, you don't have to log in for that. Society is where we *all* make the rules, not just the worst people among us. So there's a duty to push back. Similarly the mods have a duty to make this a fun experience for everyone, to the extent they can. I cannot be the only person who has had 10/10 rotten experiences with RP groups. I mean, that's incomprehensible. So if you've got a group that is actively griefing people, like the one that drove the group I complained about into such a frenzy, the mods can do something about that. And we can petition them to act, too, in extreme cases. They did it three years ago. I watched that VG leader quit and leave the server, right before I quit the group myself. I stuck around just to be kind - he had COVID at the time and everyone was bailing. What's weird for me is that individual RPers on here can still be cool and fun and friendly. And my characters are popular and get plenty of positive comments, as does my RP. Just not in RP *groups*, which have been uniformly standoffish or hostile. It's the group dynamic that never fails to turn against me and often right at the beginning. I don't get that. Did everyone just turn into jackals at some point? I guess the first thing I'm looking for is some agreement that yeah, the group rejecting me was needlessly harsh and out of bounds. Savaging someone you invited to apply for membership is pointless and weird. Blaming them for events that transpired three years ago and before they even joined the VGs in question is weirder still. Being unreasonably butthurt and letting those emotions walk all over the application process so you don't even *see* the applicant anymore is the weirdest of all. That's why their membership has fallen to 31 and they now feel the need to recruit in open chat. They are probably insular and nearly impossible to join. Anyway. I'm just trying to find some way to stay in the Homecoming RP community and not give up. I love group RP, but I no longer see a way forward to it. I'll try a ticket next, thanks for the suggestion. The last time I had an issue, they actually picked up on it in the forums.

I want to lodge a formal complaint of discrimination against one self-described "heavy RP" group that invited me to apply for membership yesterday. For the sake of fairness, I will not name names here. When a moderator contacts me, I will relay the names to him. The representative for this group was advertising for new recruits in the LFG channel. When I spoke with him he said the group doesn't normally advertise in open channels. I soon learned why. I was invited to join their Discord server and apply for membership. Which I did, answering a long list of questions and and posting the replies directly on Discord. The next day, the rep posted the following rejection notice in a Discord dm: The primary decline is due to associations with groups, and therefore people, that have openly been malicious to not just us but numerous people in the RP community here on Homecoming. Those groups are [redacted] and [redacted]... [the latter group] specifically had someone join our group years ago for the sole purpose to fabricate drama, which failed mind you, but the most damning was taking information, screenshots, and stuff like that from our discord to do whatever it is they planned on doing. Not just in game or IC things, but everything. Many of us have played together for years, since live. We have pictures of our kids, sometimes personal information that we, as more than gaming friends, share with one another. We have not, and will not, interact or engage with people associated with those groups again. Ever. And we're not alone in that sentiment as far as the community is concerned. Here the rep describes wrongs committed *years ago* *by someone other than me,* citing them as reasons for rejecting me today. I was with each of those groups less than two months, and I quit along with most of their members when it became clear what the leaders were doing. The rep could have asked, and I would have provided proof that I fought back and then quit. I was as every bit as much the victim as his friends and his kids. Search my other postings to this forum if you'd like to see some of that evidence for yourself. But the rep did not ask. Instead he pressed the big lazy CANCEL button that's on everyone's desk these days. He chose to discriminate against me because I am a former Redsider. Thank you for the time you went through submitting one and it's unfortunate we'll be declining. But many of us simply do not trust former members of those 2 specific groups just because of the actual, non-gaming based problems they have caused. Word associations that come to mind: unfair, unjust, unthinking, un-American. By the rep's own admission, his operating principle is guilt by association. He demonstrates clear bias against former Redsiders. I do not know or assume that you engaged in such activity but we're not willing to risk that. He was also unwilling to risk discussion. He booted me from the Discord server and gave me no chance to stand up for myself. Is this the kind of behavior Homecoming wants in its roleplaying community? I was a friendly person who is also highly qualified, and rather than engage me on my merits he kicked me in the teeth. Any group that recruits openly in General or LFG while carrying around this much baggage should be subject to counseling by the Homecoming team. We need an open, honest dialogue about the importance of treating everyone fairly and without bias. To discriminate against someone just because he joined a VG at some point in the past is insane. I hate to admit it, but after years of participating in the Homecoming roleplay community the overall experience remains largely negative. This group and its representative are only the latest examples. But I have not lost hope. I believe it can be better.

Thank you all for this excellent work! One note however on the Pristine badge - it's not on top of the building, it's down on the grass a short distance N of the building and its stone fence. Cheers!

I don't have the edgelord chops to argue toe to toe with any of you (this has been a highly entertaining thread for me by the way), but... I can posit a good strong role for my Sentinel: combat commander. If you want a wider field of view than that given by running a melee build, AND you want to avoid the embarasment of chewing pavement multiple times during a mission, OR you just want to hoverblast from medium range with complete confidence, then the Sentinel becomes a strong choice. In Guild Wars 2 world v. world battles the combat commander for a given side always had to be the last person to fall. We used to share tips for builds that, through one means or another, achieved this. The Sentinel clearly would fit that bill.

I want to say that first off, I love the careful consideration the OP has clearly given to all points of view here. This is a great start. I'd like to advocate for something that works well for me. I was attracted initially to redside RP and had to come up with some way to cope with the occasional hostile comment delivered in an SG environment. /ignore isn't really an option when others are commenting and riffing on RP they may see as merely "spicy" or "edgy". So what I found helpful was to say, using the tag for added emphasis: "(OOC: I'm sorry, but I'm not comfortable with this roleplay. Could you please stop?)" You may need to repeat it a time or two. By not responding directly to the offensive RP or appearing to take it personally, you can avoid a *world* of hurt. You're denying them consent to continue. You'd think this would be an obvious strategy, right? But it's funny how counterintuitive it is when you're in the moment. So it may deserve mention in your discussion of tactics for avoiding RP ugliness. I only wish someone in the first two guilds I joined could have explained it in those simple terms.

@Bentley Berkeley @Zolgar Thanks for the support. To be honest, when I played 8 years ago I didn't do RP at all really. I was surprised when Homecoming came in - suddenly I discovered an appetite for it! It's no biggie, really, that my first two SGs were ungood experiences. Two months of learning the ropes is not unreasonable. BUT now I'd like to take things to the next level. Bentley I was very impressed with your commitment to game lore when we met that day in Atlas, and I'm sorry I had to log suddenly when it came time for a meal - my ride was waiting downstairs. You have an SG? We should talk. I'm also looking into making one of my own at this time. Though it feels a bit like going from 0 to 80 mph in three seconds.

Feel like some light reading? Here's an amusing Discord conversation I had with a redside SG co-leader. The occasion was my proposal, in general chat, that we do something to make the group more friendly towards female recruits. I was the SG's recruiter at the time. This is posted in support of MetaVileTerror's Rule One. Names have been changed to protect the innocent. July 25, 2019 Feminist Last Thursday at 8:17 PM Okay. So what's with all the open hostility? Why are you this angry? MRA-2 Last Thursday at 8:25 PM I feel similarly to others in that your argument came out of nowhere and that you are bringing up either past issues or non-issues for reasons unknown. The situation with MRA-0 was handled by MRA-0 and there were consequences for how it was handled. People had their differences and left. That happened in the past. Under new management and attempting to rebuild, you are bringing up past issues when they don't need to be brought to attention. More so, the biggest issue in my opinion is the fact that players got personally offended over a roleplay. It's akin to reading Game of Thrones, getting personally offended as if you were one of the characters in the book, and shaming George RR Martin for writing it. Feminist Last Thursday at 8:26 PM Once or twice, I'd agree with you. But this stuff built up over a long time. Many instances. Pretending that it has gone away won't make it so. I want to make sure that I'm not just recruiting new victims. It's an ethical question, really. I mean, look at MRA-3's reaction. He's practically frothing at the mouth. MRA-2 Last Thursday at 8:29 PM We make sure it doesn't happen again by telling new recruits what they are in for and letting them decide if they can handle it or not....Not by changing everything else so we please everyone, not offend anyone, and make it a safe and PG-13 place for all people. Feminist Last Thursday at 8:30 PM Okay. So I am supposed to tell people to expect abusive and sexist RP? How do I sell that? MRA-2 Last Thursday at 8:31 PM Tell me, besides what MRA-0 did, who else did what exactly? And I want specific examples. Feminist Last Thursday at 8:31 PM You told me I should offer blowjobs to all the members. Was a serious statement that you later claimed was IC. I let it pass. Six women I talked to on their way out the door complained over and over that there's too much ERP. Four guys too. MRA-2 Last Thursday at 8:32 PM Yes, MRA-2 said that because I was responding in an IC manner and you weren't using brackets to show that you were speaking OOCly. Feminist Last Thursday at 8:33 PM Nah. It was an asshat thing to say to a brother officer. But i let it pass. IC OOC still asshat. So the problem is, these things are not fun for the recipient and that hurts the SG. This is my point. Folks will log on elsewhere if this is just a sausage fest. You, MRA-3, and MRA-1 are basically arguing for your sausage fest rights. MRA-2 Last Thursday at 8:34 PM OOC I wouldn't have said that, so don't assume the words came from the player when I am clearly stating that those words were said by the character because that's in the haracters personality. I even used quotation marks indicating it was IC. Feminist Last Thursday at 8:35 PM Hey I was there, remember? You said be specific. I am not asshurt about it. It's just a red flag. If you enjoy saying stuff like that IC then you're probably going to drive away the ladies. MRA-2 Last Thursday at 8:37 PM That's the characters personality. It is what it is. But once again, you are insinuating the player enjoys it because the character might. You are mixing IC and OOC and that's never good. Feminist Last Thursday at 8:38 PM Does. Not. Matter. It's all about being a decent human being. You and I never had harsh words. So I figured, it was just a bad day. People will be forgiving if it doesn't happen all the time. I want rules so it doesn't happen all the time. That's reasonable, I think. MRA-2 Last Thursday at 8:39 PM It matters immensely. RP is not real life. My character does not need to be a decent human being. Feminist Last Thursday at 8:39 PM If you want the group to thrive, yes you do. You and MRA-1 are officers. If you can't control your tongues, where will we be? Let me give you another example, one from my past mistakes. In my last SG, I was an officer who became a target. Other officers came up to me, IC, and told me I was terrible and should never have gotten the job. This went on and on. I cried. I got angry. I shouted out. "It's just IC," they all said and laughed. But I ended up quitting. It wasn't any fun to log on anymore. That is what we're up against. Most RPers have alts in several groups. If we want them to log on to us, we have to be reasonably nice people. Not attack females on sight, even in Discord. You, MRA-3 and MRA-1 all kinda batshit at the same time, in public chat, lol. Coulda been done different. MRA-2 Last Thursday at 8:43 PM Then clearly, you are taking the roleplay too personally. And attacking females on sight? In Discord? What are you talking about? You're a guy irl. Why are you even making this about gender? Feminist Last Thursday at 8:43 PM Right. But I'm standing up for women just now, and that's why you're mad I think. MRA-2 Last Thursday at 8:43 PM It has NOTHING to do with gender. Feminist Last Thursday at 8:44 PM Come on come on, you were just ready to fly off the handle. This is old business made new. The next person who comes into the SG and has anything to say about gender is going to be flayed alive too. MRA-2 Last Thursday at 8:50 PM No dude, you're not standing up for women. You are extremely toxic because you make up false statements and then really believe them to be true. You know what kind of person you are? You're the type to twist words to put yourself on a pedestal. Here's an example: You: "So do you like that girl?" Person: "Nah, she's not my type." You: "Why, because she's black?" Person: "What? No, they just aren't my type." You: "Oh so black people aren't your type? Your a racist bigot and it's people like you that ruin this country." That's pretty much you right now. Feminist Last Thursday at 8:51 PM I am asking you to change your behavior, become a decent human being. You are insisting that the world accept you the way you are. Even if it means I can't recruit because you will just tell all the female toons to go suck dicks. Yes? You want to be evil. MRA-2 Last Thursday at 8:52 PM Oh my word...you can't be this dense... Feminist Last Thursday at 8:52 PM Sayin' the same thing bro. You want a permanent excuse for any bad behavior you're feeling, any time. I am saying no can do. Are you MRA? There's a reddit for this kind of thing. ...and that's where our conversation ended, because MRA-2 booted me from Discord, kicked me out of the SG and deleted me from his global friends list. I guess he showed me, huh?

Hey I have my main in Chaos United and I'm loving it. Great job BlastLord! But I also have two alts who are seeking the heavier RP experience - sparring, GM'ed events, all day talkathons. Both alts were officers in redside SGs until recently. The problem? Toxic IC posts. Players who'd run up to me out of nowhere and tell me I was a terrible person who should never have been made an officer. Players who, after I greeted them for the very first time, told me I should offer everyone in the SG a blowjob. In each case they insisted that because those comments were IC I had no right to be offended. So my question is, does anyone know of an SG dedicated to the idea of players being decent human beings and trash talk being discouraged, IC or OOC? Because while I do know the difference, I don't want to log in and have to deal every day. I'm not a snowflake but I have limits. The two SG leaders in question both insisted they don't tolerate that sort of behavior but then did nothing to curtail or punish it. I need a strong SG leader who is like my GW1 mega-guild leader - he has "be respectful and reasonable at all times" right up there in the MotD.