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Found 7 results

  1. I think it's time we bring this up again 😉 Knockback is something that many of us find very fun in CoH, but has been controversial in how it works. Without rehashing the specific complaints about it in a team sense, I'd like to touch on what I feel KB is missing. When you knock a guy into a wall, or off a ledge it doesn't seem to bother the enemy at all aside from a minor inconvenience, and with some enemies they don't really seem phased as they will continue to use ranged attacks after a moment of getting back up. In most media, slamming into a wall or off a height generally is a fight-stopping event where either the mook is straight up KOd or it takes a heavy toll on them. Above are some ideas that I've found throughout the boards that could be attributed to KB powers to give them that mechanical oomph on top of the fun aesthetic of flinging guys around. Let's use this thread to come up with fun ways to make KB have more impact!
  2. What: Knockback themed Superteam that practices "Social Distancing" by knocking enemies far away! Where: Excelsior - On the star in Nova Praetoria When: Fridays at 8pm Eastern US (first meeting on 8 May) Who: Brought to you by the Justice Superteamers (the folks behind the Justice TA, Traps, Radiation, Blades, Earth, Gun, Darkness, Time, Water, Sonic, and Nature Superteams). We're also currently running an Electric team on Sunday nights. Why: FUN, Fortune, and glory! The Justice Superteamers run many projects to leverage the power of stacked (de)buffs and explore common themes to accomplish things that a random group could not. Come join us on Excelsior for our Social Distancing themed Superteam. We want to harness the power of Knockback powers to keep people at least 6 (or 60) feet away! In addition to being socially relevant for many of us, it allows players to take and slot fun KB powers that are often shunned in normal teaming. Long time vets and new players are all invited as we focus on fun with other friendly players. Power/Build Requirements: Pretty loose with this one. You can use any build with access to several knockback/repel powers. These powers should be taken early, used often in combat, and slotted for at least 1 KB enh. Examples of sets with good KB/repel are: Force Field Storm Energy Blast/Assault Assault Rifle Martial Combat Peacebringer Melee builds or builds that use "patches" that require the enemies to stay in one place should only be used if you know what you're getting into. You must include Maneuvers in your build for team defense The following are suggested, but if you can't fit them all in, not required: Aid Other Assault Tactics Other team-focused powers are great too: Veng, TP, and Resuscitate are always useful. You're welcome to make use of your other build if you'd like to maintain a solo, PVP, or non project compliant build. Miscellaneous Details: Feel free to get into the social distancing theme with your costume too. Masks, gloves, and helmets are encouraged on this team. Our first meeting will take place Friday, May 8, 2020 at 8pm EDT on the giant star in Nova Praetoria. Feel free to show up fresh from the tutorial (or even skip it). We'll be coordinating the group through use of a global channel named "Justice Superteamers". Everyone participating on this team must join the channel. (/chan_join "Justice Superteamers"). We also have a Discord channel for out of game and voice communication. We'll start in Praetoria where most heroes are self quarantining, but will eventually make ourselves vigilantes/rogues so we can enjoy what Paragon and the Rogue Isles have to offer. We'll be focusing on PVE content (TFs, Contact Arcs, Tips, iTrials, the occasional newspaper/scanner, etc). There is no limit on the number of people that can join us. This isn't going to be a fixed group of 8; the more, the merrier. Feel free to show up late, roll a 2nd alt, etc. Super-Sidekick makes teaming incredibly easy. If you already have a character that fits the theme of this team, or won't be able to join us at the start of this team, don't worry; we'll accept you at any level, any time. Just note that if you're significantly beyond the rest of the team in terms of level, you should expect to exemplar down to the rest of the team most of the time. If you have any questions or suggestions, feel free to post here or send a /t or email to @Perfect Square, @Hedgefund, or @EF in-game.
  3. I do love knockback. It's pretty fun and has an element of control in it that is different. With proper application it can dominate an encounter or even a conversation. I am okay with knockdown but to be honest I prefer stun to knockdown. There's a learning curve with knockback just as other powers. It's just not subtle. Few really see Enflame being applied and it being the cause of a target start running around, There are tips and tricks available. There are also plenty of threads on the topic like:
  4. Wondering if there are any Knockback-friendly SGs on any of the HC shards/servers? Knockback-positive would be even better. I kind of want to build a pepsi-popper and really slot it up for knockback, but I don't want to be the jerk on the teams throwing opponents out of everyone's range. Don't really care which shard it is in as I've got characters on all the shards, just looking for a group of people who love to drop kick opponents across the map. My in-game handle is @V.V
  5. Not having any kind of knock mitigation is a tremendous glaring disadvantage. As my DA character gets stronger it is becoming the only way of taking him out. The game just plinks away, eventually I Dark Regen it all back and the train keeps rolling. But the instant something with even a hint of knock-back arrives, I just get juggled to death. Makes it feel like DA should be way stronger in other ways to compensate for being auto-dead when someone has knock. I know there is a flight IO that reduces knock mag, Blessing of the Zephyr. Are there other ways to control knock?
  6. I have been running some tests on my Electric Armor/Energy Melee Tanker over the past few days and I have run across an issue I think should be looked into. As many of you might know Electric Armor comes with a power called Grounded that gives you Knockback Protection at a whopping Mag 15.6, and in most cases this is enough to get you through just about everything. Most people don't slot other AT's past a Mag 8 for Knockback. So, I figured this would be good enough for my Tank. Then Lord Recluse happened ... Old spider-butt couldn't hurt me, but he was bouncing me around like I was a basketball. So this got me wondering about how much KB Protection I would need to add to prevent him from knocking me down again. However, slots are valuable so I had to be able to only alter one or two slots to add more KB to achieve this. So I added another Mag 4 KB enhancement to my build and increased my KB Protection to 19.6 and tried it again. And yet again, I was still knocked down! So I took to Mid's and started looking at all the Tank Armor Sets and noticed something. Three of the eleven Armors didn't have Knockback Resistance at all, which is something entirely different from Knockback Protection. Fire Armor, and Dark Armor, don't even have powers that give them KB protection of any kind, so they have to slot KB Protection into their builds, which seems odd for a Tank. The other eight Armor sets give an INSANE Knockback Resistance, AND Mag 10 Protection. Screenshot from my Super Strength/Invul Tanker Knockback Protection 10.0 Knockback Resistance 1.00% Distance (Unyielding -9900.00% distance from self) WTF??? Vs. what my Electric Armor Tank gets ... Knockback Protection 19.6 Knockback Resistance 100.00% distance Following the logic from the screenshots above, KB Protection 10.0 + KB Resistance 1.0% is somehow greater than KB Protection 19.6 + KB Resistance 100% ... Weird! I know there is more going on here, but you see my point. So, my recommendation is to level the playing field and make all Tanks equal in this area and give them all the same Knockback Resistance and Protection. I don't see anything special in their power sets that would make the other three any stronger if they could stand on their feet the whole time like the other Tanks. Fire Armor - Add it to Plasma Shield Dark Armor - Add it to Obsidian Shield Electric Armor - Add it to Grounded and balance the KB Protection to match the others. I would still leave the part of this power that requires you to remain on the ground for it to work. 😃 This would make Knockback Resistance exclusive to ALL Tanks, which makes them all tanky and stuff! Then all the Squishies of the world can have all the Knock Protection they want. If you think adding this KB Resistance to these three Tank Armor types would be a mistake I would love to hear your reasoning. If you support this idea I would love to hear that as well. Thanks for reading through all this!
  7. (Is anyone here getting semantic satiation out of the word 'Knockback'? Just me?) The Problem So there have been a lot of Knockback threads, and my personal pet peeve is that KB to KD IOs tend to be a bit of an IO tax on high, random knockback powers that people want to use constructively. I've previously suggested a powerset revision myself, but it occurred to me in the shower that there was an easier way of dealing with the problems. First, let's review the problems with Knockback. If you're not interested in reviewing my ennumerated list of current problems, you can skip down to 'The Proposal' below. A) Can scatter groups of mobs, weakening the effectiveness of AoE powers. B) Can move an individual mob, forcing melee who were on it to chase. C) When it occurs randomly, it's difficult to selectively use it. Knocked back mobs are resistant to further KB, so a random low magnitude knock can prevent an effective knock when you need it. Now, let's look at various solutions (current and commonly proposed) and their problems: D) Knockback to Knockdown IOs in Knockback Sets SOLVES: A, B PROBLEM: Effectively removes an IO that you may have wanted to use for something else. These can potentially be significant. STATUS: Good, but unfair to tax a whole powerset this way. People end up skipping these on single target powers usually for a reason. E) Shoot the mob from above or when they're already against a wall. SOLVES: A (sometimes), B (sometimes) PROBLEM: Myriad. Low ceilings, aerial enemies, forces flight as a power, time spent positioning is time spent not killing, foes aren't always next to walls, flying is a bad idea in some incarnate content. It adds up if you have to do it all the time. STATUS: Okay, but not reliable. F) Lining up shots on foes recovering from a knockdown SOLVES: A, B, C PROBLEM: You already need a reliable source of knockdown on the target or targets you're going to hit, constraining you to work after that power's cooldown. The second attack you're using has to animate fast enough to actually hit during the animation. STATUS: I've done it, usually not worth the effort. G) Use an AoE immobilize with KB protection or resistance. SOLVES: A, B (usually. I have knocked back enemies under AoE immobs that have both when I've used multiple high mag shots in short succession, but it happens very rarely, like not even a percent of the time). PROBLEM: Sentinels, Controllers, and Dominators can do this on their own, but not Blasters, Corruptors, or Defenders. Not all AoE immobs (none in the Sentinel set) offer KB resistance without protection, effectively meaning you've used a power to negate all of your primary's auxiliary effect entirely. STATUS: This is my current primary tactic but believe it or not I do actually enjoy knocking things back! It's fun, I just want more control over it. H) (Proposed, only) Null the Gull Setting SOLVES: A, B PROBLEM: i) Can this even be done? Very hard to predict, not sure there's a precedent. Would need to be a global Knockback multiplier. ii) Doesn't allow for fine control over individual powers you may want to knock. I) (Proposed, only) Change existing sets to reduce randomness and focus on strategic skill of KB. SOLVES: A, B, C PROBLEM: i) Some people like the RNG Status Quo ii) It may be difficult in the coding The Proposal We have to find some way to enhance knockback powers without unduly enhancing knockdown powers, which are overwhelmingly melee. Knockback improvements can be pursued as either additional single Knockback Enhancements that are powerful, making them compatible with sets that are strong at the five-piece set bonus, or by making new sets that are worth slotting all the way. Currently, there are no sets in the Knockback category which are routinely recommended for five-slotting, and only one that is rarely recommended for six-slotting. In consideration of these points, there are three parts to this proposal: An alteration to Sudden Acceleration. New Knockback Enhancement sets. New damage sets that enhance knockback. 1. Sudden Acceleration I would like to swap the 5- and 6-piece set bonuses, so that global recharge is granted by the 5-piece and HP is granted by the 6-piece. What follows below is a statistical overview of the set as it currently is. Piece Set Bonus Knockback/Recharge 1pc: N/A Knockback/Damage/Recharge 2pc: 7.5% bonus move speeds Knockback/Damage/Endurance 3pc: 2.25% bonus endurance Knockback/Accuracy/Damage 4pc: 2.5% global damage buff Knockback/Accuracy 5pc: 2.25% hit point bonus Knockback to Knockdown 6pc: 7.5% global recharge speed A level 50 set grants the following bonuses: Category Base Bonus +5 Boost Accuracy 47.70% 59.62% Damage 63.60% 79.50%1 Endurance 21.20% 26.50% Recharge 47.70% 59.62% Knockback 111.54% 139.43%1 1 This is the raw value. The real number is slightly reduced by the effects of enhancement diversification. (Green zone) Note that this set does not cap anything, and even with an appropriate alpha slot enhancement, it only gets close to the cap on Damage -- staying in the 'yellow zone' on Mids. It is not a compelling set to take beyond one piece for any reason; while all of its set bonuses are good, you're locked into six slots to get the best option there, and your power will neither knock people far back, nor will it reach its highest potential in damage. As it stands, the 2-, 3-, 4-, and 5-piece set bonuses just aren't worth interrupting a better set, even in the notoriously underwhelming Single-Target Ranged Attack set options. Furthermore, the +2.25% HP set bonus is already available in Devastation (3-piece Ranged Damage), Eradication (4-piece PBAoE Damage), Shield Wall (3-piece Defense), and Gladiator's Armor (5-piece Resistance), which are all more popular options for survival already, for various reasons. There is little compelling reason to believe that many were five-slotting Sudden Acceleration for the health bonus and would be upset to get a recharge bonus instead. While Sudden Acceleration is unlikely to become a top choice if the swap between the 5- and 6-piece bonuses is made, it becomes a reasonable one to make in situations where a power absolutely needs Knockback to Knockdown, can spare a few percent of damage, but can't spare global recharge bonuses. 2. New Knockback Sets Escape Velocity - Very Rare (Level 50) Every other control condition has a very rare set of its own, and it's time for Knockback to join their ranks! Escape Velocity is an improved combination of Force Feedback and Sudden Acceleration, the way most Very Rare sets are improved versions of a Rare set. As with all Very Rare sets, all pieces are unique. Piece Enhancement Bonus (+5 Boost) Set Bonus Knockback/RechargeU 59.6 (74.5) / 33.1 (41.4) 1pc: N/A Knockback/DamageU 59.6 (74.5) / 33.1 (41.4) 2pc: 4% Endurance Recovery1 Knockback/Damage/EnduranceU 47.7 (59.6) / 26.5 (33.1) / 26.5 (33.1) 3pc: 6% Resist (Fire/Cold), 10% Mez Resist1 Knockback/Accuracy/DamageU 47.7 (59.6) / 26.5 (33.1) / 26.5 (33.1) 4pc: 15% global accuracy bonus1 Knockback/AccuracyU 59.6 (74.5) / 33.1 (41.4) 5pc: 10% global recharge speed1 Knockback/Chance for RechargeU 95.5 (119.375) / 2 PPM 6pc: 4% global damage buff2 1 A common set bonus for Very Rares. 2 At least one other Very Rare doesn't give resistance for the sixth slot. Amenable to changing this to something else. U Designates a unique enhancement. Category Base Bonus +5 Boost Accuracy 59.62% 74.5% Damage 86.10%1 107.6%2 Endurance 26.50% 33.1% Recharge 33.1% 41.4% Knockback 369.7%2 462.1%2 3 1 This is the raw value. The real number is slightly reduced by the effects of enhancement diversification. (Green zone) 2 This is the raw value. The real number is heavily reduced by the effects of enhancement diversification. (Red zone) 3 For the curious: after ED this comes out to 210.3%. This is enough to turn a knockdown into Mag 2.1, or Nova into Mag 51.5. In comparison to Sudden Acceleration, Escape Velocity swaps some of the enhancement recharge for Damage, ensuring a full damage cap and allowing recharge to be entirely skipped if wanted. Endurance remains low, as is common in many Very Rare sets. Chance for Recharge works as in Force Feedback except with an increased chance of activation. The proc is given a Schedule D single (not split) enhancement in order to discourage its casual use in sets that prefer knockdown without also being used with Sudden Acceleration. Fusionette's Fury - Rare (Levels 30 to 50) Not all categories have a set named for an iconic character, but Knockback doesn't have one yet, so why not? Fusionette's Fury follows the same philosophy as above of making knockback sets more desirable by pairing them with beneficial other effects which you cannot escape. Fusionette's Fury is patterned after Force Feedback, allowing four regular enhancements to carry Knockback, in addition to the one on the proc effect, for reasons described under Escape Velocity. In fact, this set is the reason why the Very Rare set calculates Knockback on its Proc as a Single IO rather than a Dual IO -- at level 30, a Dual IO on Schedule D would not be enough to enhance Knockdown to Knockback. Piece Enhancement Bonus (+5 Boost) Set Bonus Knockback/Damage 47.7 (59.6) / 26.5 (33.1) 1pc: N/A Knockback/Accuracy 47.7 (59.6) / 26.5 (33.1) 2pc: 1.35% endurance bonus Damage/Endurance 26.5 (33.1) / 26.5 (33.1) 3pc: 7.5% movement speed bonus Knockback/Accuracy/Damage 38.2 (47.7) / 21.2 (26.5) / 21.2 (26.5) 4pc: 2.5% global damage bonus Knockback/Endurance/Recharge 38.2 (47.7) / 21.2 (26.5) / 21.2 (26.5) 5pc: 6.25% global recharge speed Knockback/Chance for -ResU 76.4 (95.5) / 3.5 PPM 6pc: 9% movement speed bonus U Designates a unique enhancement. Category Base Bonus +5 Boost Accuracy 47.7% 59.6% Damage 74.31 92.9%2 Endurance 47.7% 59.6% Recharge 21.2% 26.5% Knockback 248.2%3 310.3%3 1 This is the raw value. The real number is slightly reduced by the effects of enhancement diversification. (Green zone) 2 This is the raw value. The real number is moderately reduced by the effects of enhancement diversification. (Yellow zone) 3 This is the raw value. The real number is heavily reduced by the effects of enhancement diversification. (Red zone) Compared to Sudden Acceleration, Fusionette's Fury has a bit more damage, getting close to the territory of a true damage set -- however, its set bonuses are markedly worse by most standards, having niche application outside of the good, but not exceptional, 5-piece bonus. Ballistic Dismissal - Uncommon (Levels 10 to 20) A set for when you really want people to get out of your face, Ballistic Dismissal pairs your knockback with a powerful repel. By coming online at level 10 as an uncommon, it's fairly accessible for ranged characters who need a panic button beginning at level 7. The proc is unique to prevent repel abuse. Piece Enhancement Bonus (+5 Boost) Set Bonus Knockback/Endurance 28.9 (36.1) / 16 (20) 1pc: N/A Knockback/Accuracy 28.9 (36.1) / 16 (20) 2pc: 3% movement speed bonus Knockback to Knockdown/RepelU Mag 8 Repel, ∞ PPM 3pc: 0.75% hit point bonus U Designates a unique enhancement. Again, went for something very different here. The unique turns unreliable knockback effects like Energy Torrent into reliable crowd pushers that can redirect part of the fight where you need it to go. 3. New Damage Sets that Enhance Knockback (?) New Enhancement Sets that include unique Knockback IOs. Why damage sets? Well, by targeting these specifically, we can exclude melee from getting benefits they really don't need. The question I'm not sure of is if these are still needed; these were part of my original proposal, but I feel the above two parts supersede these sets by addressing the situation in a more elegant way, and three sets is already a lot to add at once. Are any more sets still necessary? The relevant part from the original post is quoted below for posterity.
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