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So I'm used to building my Sentinels the "traditional" way, as in chasing set bonii and leveraging straight damage in attacks. However, seeing recent threads about /SR, and how (relatively) easy it is to cap defenses without needing too many sets, I thought I would take the opportunity (ha!) to rejig my fledgling Dark/SR and see what I can do with her. I'm going into this knowing that Dark has a fairly limited selection of procs, outside of loading up Abyssal Gaze, so I've chosen to aim for passive damage bonii on top of what procs seemed to make sense. Big question: Can any of my primary attacks be subbed out for epics instead, and in doing so provide a better return on the investment? I'm loath to give up my T1 and T2 for now, due to the way their timing lets me stack both Opportunities at once. I think everything else but Blackstar is fair game tho. The other target I'd be interested in hitting is shaving the last 12 seconds off Hasten to get it perma. Preferably without Alpha - Spiritual will do it, but its other aspects are pretty much wasted, and it also messes with proc math. Also note that I don't chase solo ITFs or any of the major metrics, so I'm not shooting for bleeding edge here. However, I do like to feel like I'm contributing on teams, and would like to be able to solo something like +1/x8 at reasonable speed. Thanks in advance for any suggestions to improve on this!
This bug has been brought up numerous times over the last year. You can check that out here, here, and here. I have not seen much discussion on this by the devs, with the only mention of looking into it came from @Captain Powerhouse where he stated this. However, I have no idea if he actually looked into it. Nonetheless, I decided to look into it by creating large sample sizes of data and hopefully identify a trend (for those who don't like lots of numbers, feel free to scroll down to my conclusion, which is in big-bold letters at the bottom). Here is what we think we know. The DoT does its proc check after each tick and will cancel all subsequent ticks if there is a miss. This means we have the following expected performance numbers for a DoT that has a 75% chance of “ticking”. Probability of 0 ticks: 25% (25% to miss on first tick attempt) Probability of at least 1 tick: 75% (75% to hit on first tick attempt) Probability of at least 2 ticks: 56.25% (75% x 75%) Probability of at least 3 ticks: 42.19% (75% x 75% x 75%) Probability of at least 4 ticks: 31.64% (75% x 75% x 75% x 75%) Probability of all 5 ticks: 23.73% (75% x 75% x 75% x 75% x 75%) This also translates to the following expected performance: Probability of exactly 0 ticks: 25% Probability of exactly 1 tick: 18.75% (75% x 25%: hit on 1st, then miss on 2nd) Probability of exactly 2 ticks: 14.06% (75% x 75% x 25%) Probability of exactly 3 ticks: 10.55% (75% x 75% x 75% x 25%) Probability of exactly 4 ticks: 7.91% (75% x 75% x 75% x 75% x 25%) Probability of all 5 ticks: 23.73% This tells us that on average, for every successful attack we hit, we can expect 2.288 DoT ticks. (0*25% + 1*18.75% + 2*14.06% + 3*10.55% + 4*7.91% + 5*23.73% = 2.288). Now that we know all the math for the expected performance (which was suggested/verified to us by Captain PowerHouse in the similar Bug Report last year), let’s look at the results we get from testing. For this test, I removed all recharge bonuses for my build and used auto-Kick repeatedly. I did this because it would create a 5 second cycle between Kicks, which make all potential DoT ticks play out before I could perform the next Kick attack. This made it much easier for me to parse my combat log to measure the number of ticks generated from each attack (which I will compare to the probability of EXACT results I just provided). Finally, I removed all results where my final Kick attack resulted in the defeat of the enemy. I did this because we could never be sure of how many ticks of damage the target could have had if they remained alive (once they're dead, the ticks stopped). This includes removing results where the death occurred on the 5th tick. Even though we know exactly how many ticks happened, it is unfair to cherry pick (please don't make me explain the math). So those were my test conditions. Now, onto the results. Test 1 (10 Feb 2020): T3 Degenerative Radial (+75% chance DoT only) 313 Successful Kicks. No Ticks: 149 (47.60%) 1 Tick: 29 (9.27%) 2 Ticks: 34 (10.86%) 3 Ticks: 20 (6.39%) 4 Ticks: 22 (7.03%) 5 Ticks: 59 (18.85%) Average: 1.7252 Ticks per Successful Kick Test 2 (11 Feb 2020): T3 Degenerative Radial (+75% chance DoT only) 1192 Successful Kicks. No Ticks: 522 (43.79%) 1 Tick: 178 (14.93%) 2 Ticks: 109 (9.14%) 3 Ticks: 82 (6.88%) 4 Ticks: 86 (7.21%) 5 Ticks: 215 (18.04%) Average: 1.7290 Ticks per Successful Kick Test 1 and 2 combined: 1505 Successful Kicks No Ticks: 671 (44.58%) 1 Tick: 207 (13.75%) 2 Ticks: 143 (9.50%) 3 Ticks: 102 (6.78%) 4 Ticks: 108 (7.18%) 5 Ticks: 274 (18.21%) Average: 1.7282 Ticks per Successful Kick These results show that the actual performance is nothing close to the expected performance. So, what’s going on here, exactly? First, let’s look at the ratio of the test results with the expected results. 1 Tick: 13.75%/18.75% = 0.7335 2 Ticks: 9.50%/14.06% = 0.6757 3 Ticks: 6.78%/10.55% = 0.6426 4 Ticks: 7.18%/7.91% = 0.9072 5 Ticks: 18.21%/23.73% = 0.7672 Average: 1.728/2.288 = 0.7553 There’s a little bit of variance still happening, but it seems there is a pattern, which is the probability of X Ticks are all being weighted by approximately 0.75 (75%). I suspect an extra 75% probability to proc is being applied in the front end and it carries itself through the rest of the ticks. I notice similar behavior with the 25% proc as I performed a small test (using a T4 Reactive Core) of 172 samples and only saw 9 ticks (5.23%, when I expected 25%). I don’t have enough samples with the 25% proc yet, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it is also having the 25% probability to proc applied an extra time on the front, which cascades down to the probability of the subsequent ticks. If my hunch is correct, then the probability of X ticks to occur would no longer be: X: Current Expected | Actual? 0: 25% | 43.75% 1: 18.75% | 14.06% 2: 14.06% | 10.55% 3: 10.55% | 7.91% 4: 7.91% | 5.93% 5: 23.73% | 17.80% And for completion, here are the numbers for the 25% DoT (needs more testing) X: Current Expected | Actual? 0: 75% | 93.75% 1: 18.75% | 4.69% 2: 4.69% | 1.17% 3: 1.17% | 0.29% 4: 0.29% | 0.07% 5: 0.10% | 0.02% As for continuing testing, I'll do so when incarnates become free again on Beta. As of now, I'm limited to the 75% T3 Degenerative and the 25% T4 Reactive. Edit: To be clear with my phrasing. I suspect only the first tick is having an extra 75% (or 25%) check applied to its proc. All subsequent ticks should be working as expected (with just the single 75% proc checked).
Recently, I was playing around with Water Spout from the Leviathan Mastery and saw that many people double up on the -res procs (one Achilles Heel, one Annihilation); but was wondering if damage procs work well in there, too. So I /respec a scrapper (claws/sr) and added it with the following damage procs: Posi (PB) + Javelin (JV) + Bombardment (Bomb) + Lady Grey (LG) + Explosive Strike (ES) + Overwhelming Force (OF). I then went to DA and dropped it on a level 54 mob group (few Banespawns and a Elder of Sorrow): Power dropped at x:18:41 (eighteen minutes after the hour, 41 seconds in). Power finished at x:19:11 (30s duration). In that duration the procs went off as follows (in order): :42 - LG (51.65), Bomb (77.48) :52 - ES (64.57), ES (64.57), LG (51.65), Bomb (77.48), OF (KD), ES (64.57), JV (64.57) :02 - Bomb, Bomb, JV, PB, LG So because it's a pseudo pet, the every-ten-seconds chance applies. The :42 marker is the "drop" and the power started doing it's own damage (ticks of 6.85) at :43. So between the drop and the next chance for procs (10s), how much did the power do via DoTs? It did 28 ticks of 6.85 or 191.8 damage to the mobs. Granted, more mobs = more damage, but similar for proc chances, unless I'm wrong on how it's calculated. Also in that first 10s, my T3 Reactive Interface hit 5 times for 14.45 damage, for a total of 72.25. It did not go off the second 10s (:52), but did on the third (:02). So I am wondering, if I just improve my damage (say, 5 Annihilations + 1 Achilles) would the performance be better? What do most people usually run for Water Spout? Here's the raw capture log:
Most of the "Proc Monster" discussion seems to center on damage. I got interested in what other nifty things could be done in the new PPM world.... Powers that used to be questionably bad because of long cooldowns are now procilicous. And although it's technically percent based so not a PPM, having seen what Bonfire with 'Overwhelming Force: Chance KD' can do you, get the idea of what amazing non-damage impacts procs can potentially have... Leviathan Mastery FTW So what makes MM Leviathan special? Mainly a single power. All the MM Epic Hold's have a long 32s cooldown making them great for procing. But Knockout Blow from Leviathan Mastery stands out, in that it already does massive damage, plus it accepts Hold, Melee and KB IO sets, and has a massive 40s cooldown. If that wasn't enough it's also a Mag3 hold and has a base accuracy of 90 rather than the standard 75, so we can skimp on accuracy for more procs! And if all that wasn't enough Leviathan gets another hold power, plus an aoe cone Immobilize and decent resistance shield. How to exploit? What are the gimmicks I promised? Even with some recharge from Alpha or IO enhancements both 'ForceFeedback: Chance for 5s 100% Rech buff' and 'Super Entomb: Chance for +Absorb' can still have capped 90% chance to proc. With a moderately high global recharge and Hasten build that means you can reliably have both of those buffs up again every 10 - 15s. ForceFeedback --- 'Knockout Blow' being single target with a long 40s cooldown, means that a ForceFeedback proc even with it's low PPM of 2 still is above the 90% proc chance as long enhancement Recharge stays below 61% enhancement. All the other procs we'd care about have 2 or better PPM, so that magic 61.5% rech threshold will also give us capped 90% proc chance for all the other procs. This means you can slot for recharge, taking Alpha Spiritual or Agility and still have capped proc chances! That let's you easily get KO Blow cooldown into the 10s to 13s range, meaning you can reliably have FF's 100% buff up around 1/3 to 1/2 of the time if you're judicious about using KO whenever it's up in combat, so roughly equivalent to 33% to 50% global Recharge while holding enemies and doing very respectable damage. In my testing this let me make other long cooldown powers like Nature's Overgrowth Perma. Super Entomb: Chance for +Absorb --- Why care about this? Well how would you like an Absorb shield you can refresh roughly every 10s? (Taking into account the Rech buff from ForceFeedback...) This is my favorite gimmick, but it's arguably better in the Epic Range holds since you can more easily fire at will that way... In my use it's just a little under 150 HP Absorb on my MM. That may not seem like much, but I'm at 75% S/L res. Resistance reduces incoming damage before it hits the Absorb. So that means with that paltry 150 Absorb my MM can take an extra 600HP of S/L damage roughly every 10s or so. Not bad for a character that only has a 842 HP. If you can get off even 4 procs a minute it could protect you from 2400 HP of S/L damage. Another important is that's damage won't be transferred to pets in BodyGuard mode for instance when we all take a massive pboe hit.... Absorb is more effective when you have high Resistance, so will be best with 2ndaries like Resistance buffs like /Nature, /Thermal and Sonic can best leverage this. And it just so happens that Leviathan includes a decent shield 'Shark Skin' with base Resistance of 27.5% S/L/ and Cold. Combined with a 2ndary like /Nature this makes it easy to get to 75% cap on S/L even without Tough. Since Leviathan has two Holds it will also do well with 2ndaries like /Time, /Nature and /Radiation letting you stack multiple Holds. KO Blow Gimmick slotting: Relying on the 90% capped proc chances by keeping our Recharge enhancement at or below 61% for this power. ForceFeedback The usuals: 1 x Purple 'Enbreakable Constraint' [If you're poor non-purples will also have 90% proc chance it's just that they do less damage. But for instance you have other lower cooldown holds powers like Time Stop that you want to proc out you might be better off putting the purple there where the high PPM is actually needed to stay at proc cap. ...and 1 x Purple Hecatomb dmg But KO does a whopping (for MM) base damage of 109, so we also want to slot for Dmg. Optimal will be a two +5 boost Hecatomb's. 1 x Acc/Dmg/Rech and 1 x Dmg get you 94% Dmg 33% Rech. But I like 2 x Basilisk for Def bonus with 1 x Hecatomb Dmg which still gets you 66% Dmg. [2nd Hecacomb from choices above....] *Utility proc or another dmg proc seasoned to your build tastes. Interesting Utility options: Super Entomb: Chance for +Absorb is the main gimmick but I actually recommend taking ranged Spirit Shark too and putting Entomb in that. It's much easier to spam a ranged power, letting you more reliably keeping your Absorb up. Also, Spirit Shark has a lower 32s cooldown, but since Entomb is 3 PPM you can still easily keep it 90% proc chance cap... Mag5 Hold --- How about boosting the Mag3 hold up to Mag5 so you can instant hold Bosses? Superior Blistering Cold proc would let you do that but it's expensive and you don't need the high 4 PPM rate. Lockdown chance for hold's 2.5 PPM rate means you can reach 106% Recharge while still being at 90% cap Chance for -Res --- ?? Is this a bug. KO Blow accepts Targeted aoe sets?? Hmm how about 90% chance of procing an Annihilation chance for -Res? +Def bonuses --- We're often chasing Defense bonuses so my favorite slotting is actually 2 x Basiliks's and 1 x Hecatomb Dmg. That gets you 2.5% E/N, 1.25% Range Def and 66% Dmg and you can tune the Rech you get to keep it below 61% when combining with 45% from Alpha Spiritual.... Unless you have some other outside buffs you'll need some Accuracy anyway, so the Basilisks serve a purpose and also extend the hold mezz time. Other Leviathan Powers: Spirit Shark --- Single target mag3 Hold that does damage, so takes Ranged Damage and Hold Procs. Procs of interest: As mentioned previously, if you can fit it your build along with KO Blow, then this where I actually recommend putting Entomb here. At 3 PPM we can go as high as 98% Recharge while still keeping our 90% proc chance. And since this is 32s coldown power it will be up more often... Mag5 Hold -- Again adding a hold proc let's you reliable stack enough Mag hold to instant hold bosses. But don't use Lockdown as it's just a 2.5 PPM. This power takes Ranged Dmg sets and Devastation's Hold proc is a 3 PPM like Entomb. That small .5 PPM difference means Lockdown has to stay below 62% Rech to keep 90% Proc rate, whereas Devastation like Entomb can go to 98%.... Dmg procs -- Ideally the Purple Apocalypse Ranged Dmg proc. Not because we need the higher PPM rate, but because it does more Dmg... Honorable mention again with 2 x Baslisk Gaze, for the +Def set bonus and we do probably want some Accuracy and Recharge. School of Sharks: Nothing unique to see here that other Epics Immobs don't also have. The procs of interest will all be 3.5 PPM with the exception of Annihilation -Res which is 3 PPM. This means given the aoe cone and lower 20s cooldown, any recharge will greatly reduce or PPM chances in this power. For optimal procing you should go w/ no Alpha bonus and as close to zero IO Rech as possible. Procs of interest: Annihilation: chance for -Res (3 PPM) --- even with zero rech you'll still only have a ~54% chance of procing. ~45% chance to proc at 23.1875% enhancement Rech. And when you reach ED 96% Rech that goes further down to a 30.4%. Superior Frozen Blast: Chance for Immob --- This stacks ontop of the powers own Mag3 Immobilize letting you potentially mezz bosses and more easily hold AVs. While IO is 3.5 PPM which will help a bit, unfortunately it has a 23.1875% Rech Enhancement....so works against our proc plans. This will force you to 23.1875% Rech giving a proc chance of is ~52%, and worth yet also decreasing the proc chance other procs you want to use in School of Sharks. With Alpha Spiritual's 45% Rech tier that would total 68.1875% rech for a ~39.7% chance of procing. After the These might not seem that great, but for comparison remember that Controllers only get a 20% to add a +1 Mag to their powers. And since their powers are low cooldown that won't be able to use procs efficiently. Gravitational Anchor: Chance for Hold --- /Time and /Nature have chance for aoe Hold powers that accept the Lockdown chance for hold proc. If we add another aoe Chance for hold, we start to have decent odds of holding things. Gravitational is a 3.5 PPM, so the same numbers as Frozen Blast above, except if you opt to skip Frozen Blast, then you can actually be a zero recharge. Zero Rech means this a ~63% chance to proc a +2Mag Hold on targets in your Aoe cone. Debilitation Action: Chance for Stun --- It's only 3 PPM and it won't help us with Leviathan powers, but if you have other sources of Stun it might be better. Also it's dirt cheap. PPM chances will the same as Annihilation listed above. Dmg procs. Positron's, Javalin Volley, Trap of the Hunter all standard 3.5 PPM so same chances as Frozen Blast / Gravitational.... Dmg/Range or Pure Range --- This is cone power. Extending the range makes the cone's radius much wider at the end, but importantly doesn't reduce your PPM chances. You get a lot more mileage out of these powers when enhance for range because you can more easily target all enemies at once... (But sadly ranged cones have a target cap of 10 enemies....so there's only so much you can do with cone width...) Shark Skin --- Nothing much to say here. It's just like any of Epic Res Shields, but part of Res is for Cold which probab ly isn't as useful as Mu's Energy or Soul Mastery's Negative and Toxic. But I'm not here for the shield. The main point is that you want this power and you want it well slotted so you can best take advantage of the Absorb from Entomb. Bile Spray --- I'd say skip this. This power only takes Targeted Aoe sets so the proc options are limited. For proc builds you want to fully proc out powers for maximum benefit. Meaning you'll need all the 35+ slots you can spare for Knockout Blow and Spirit Shark etc..