Feedback: Testing Melee Set Performance

[Infinitum]

18 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I would not have thought to ascribe nefarious motives to the other posters in this thread, no.

 

But now that you have enlightened me i now see that Galaxy Brain, Dsorrow, and Hopeling clearly work for Nemesis.  

 

Thank you.

 

 

Whether intentional, unintentional, nefarious or pure the topic was originally a call to nerf.

 

No other way to spin it.

 

So here we are.

[DSorrow]

13 hours ago, Infinitum said:

the intent may be to ruin it though. [irrelevant for the validity of the argument]

 

if the desired result is to nerf it [irrelevant for the validity of the argument], that could be considered attempting to ruin it [irrelevant for the validity of the argument], especially when no evidence can be provided as to why exactly the game is broken because of it [This is the argument you should build: if no evidence exists or can't exist, just demonstrate this and you have a properly built argument. Just saying "there's no evidence" is equal to "you're wrong but I'm not telling why". Alternatively, show why it's ok that a powerset within a category of powersets can be significantly better than others and then you've demonstrated why the whole data collecting part isn't needed.].  Pointing to other games doesnt provide any evidence that the diseased imbalance exists here or will ever exist here. [This is something you can also build on. Why aren't other games comparable?]

 

I believe that is where the opinion comes from, and why its a valid concern.[irrelevant for the validity of the argument]

You're almost there. Like TheAdjustor said, the only thing that's relevant when it comes to motivation is considering extra scrutiny on the arguments: what has been presented, why it is right/wrong, what else should be presented. But, as I've had to repeat a million times, just having motivation doesn't make their argument right or wrong. Consider: "My opponent argues on and on in favor of allowing that mall to be built in the center of town. What he won't tell you is that his daughter and her friends plan to shop there once it's open." If he's arguing that the mall is going to increase employment rates, does that argument's truthfulness change according to whether he has a daughter at all, let alone what the daughter's intentions are?

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, DSorrow said:

You're almost there. Like TheAdjustor said, the only thing that's relevant when it comes to motivation is considering extra scrutiny on the arguments: what has been presented, why it is right/wrong, what else should be presented. But, as I've had to repeat a million times, just having motivation doesn't make their argument right or wrong. Consider: "My opponent argues on and on in favor of allowing that mall to be built in the center of town. What he won't tell you is that his daughter and her friends plan to shop there once it's open." If he's arguing that the mall is going to increase employment rates, does that argument's truthfulness change according to whether he has a daughter at all, let alone what the daughter's intentions are?

Its not irrelevant.

 

Emotions and opinions matter, thats all I'm saying.

 

Figuring out motives matter, end results matter.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Infinitum

[yeetsman]

30 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Its not irrelevant.

 

Emotions and opinions matter, thats all I'm saying.

 

Figuring out motives matter, end results matter.

lol ok u r wrong and tw needs nerfs cozu want to ruin the game with op powers ... case closed lmao ty all

[DSorrow]

42 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Its not irrelevant.

Well, then you can probably easily give me an example of an otherwise valid argument that suddenly becomes invalid when the motive of the arguer is revealed (or the other way around).

[Infinitum]

51 minutes ago, DSorrow said:

Well, then you can probably easily give me an example of an otherwise valid argument that suddenly becomes invalid when the motive of the arguer is revealed (or the other way around).

I think I'm going to let this go now cause you are missing my point.

 

In fact I'm not sure if I even remember what my point is anymore.

[TheAdjustor]

3 hours ago, Infinitum said:

I think I'm going to let this go now cause you are missing my point.

 

In fact I'm not sure if I even remember what my point is anymore.

Probably for the best. We now have a reasonable framework in place to actually test the sets, that should be interesting in and of itself.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2019 by TheAdjustor

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

Reviving an old thread but was there ever a master template created for sets performance DPS wise?

Or is the sheet listed waaaay back in this thread (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19VuZ9zJ_8eKN11JytgaK9mt9Fy-8pjANopb-FGh68Uw/edit#gid=983294472) still the go to?

[Galaxy Brain]

6 hours ago, Duck-Smokes-Quack said:

Reviving an old thread but was there ever a master template created for sets performance DPS wise?

Or is the sheet listed waaaay back in this thread (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19VuZ9zJ_8eKN11JytgaK9mt9Fy-8pjANopb-FGh68Uw/edit#gid=983294472) still the go to?

That is the go to for top-end DPS, but that is also not exactly realistic when it comes to normal gameplay.

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

10 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

That is the go to for top-end DPS, but that is also not exactly realistic when it comes to normal gameplay.

Thanks for this.

Im guessing in particular sets with combo mechanics suffer the most on this sheet then, for example Water Blast / Dual Blades etc
All underrepsented due to the fiddly nature of the mechanics?


Does anyone know why the Corruptor tab seems to have been abandoned? It just caught my eye is all, I would imagine is because it would read exactly the same as the defender one? Or was it due to Scourge being to tricky numbers wise? 
Just curious.

[Galaxy Brain]

That I am unsure of. Water would be an easier test than DB at least since it does not have a complex combo mechanic, it's just use C to make Y better.

 

Corruptor scourge is hard to quantify as well.

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

3 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Corruptor scourge is hard to quantify as well.

Yeah I figured this might be the case.

I guess when it comes to the Def vs Corr numbers the rule of thumb I have seen a few people use around here is

Rain powers + Really bad Tier 1 blasts = Play Corr 

 

 

 

On another slightyl related note, do you know who made this sheet or if they keep it up to date at all?
I noticed that the MA chain for scrappers did not slot the -res proc (which I believe it can now properly take). Some of the other sets go out of their way to note the impact this proc has on the numbers. Would be really curious to see how MA fairs with this tweak.

The way I see it is that its AoE is horrible, so its ST should be epic - but it seems to be a middling set which I find sad