Kin Defender Secondaries

Rhaethe · September 21, 2019

My next Alt Project is a Kinetic Defender. I have played the set under two different controllers, so I am familiar with it ... just somewhat unsure what secondary I would pair it with on a Defender.

Rad and Dark blast both come to mind as possibles, but unsure which would be more suitable. I am avoiding ice and electric due to having those themes already with my kin controllers. I suppose there is the good ol standby of fire, eh?

Those of you that have Kin defenders, what secondary did you choose, and did you have fun with it?

Edited September 21, 2019 by Rhaethe

Tachstar · September 21, 2019

I have a kin/rad that hit 50 a week or so ago. I didn't have any particular plan in mind when I created her, I'd just never played kin or rad blast much before and thought I'd give it a try. I mostly play her with a team that does weekly TFs, which is fun, but soloing with her was slow and tedious, so much so that I often considered re-rolling her as something else -- until the mid 40s, when she became powerful enough to rise above the tickle-tickle-tickle damage she'd been doing before. Now she's two levels into the Incarnate stuff and I'm glad I didn't delete her. Fulcrum Shift + Irradiate + Atomic Blast = woot! The slower (non insta) Photon Volley hits really hard, too. I went with Psychic Mastery for the ancillary.

So, yes, I am having fun with rad blast on this defender, but it took a while and many respecs to get there. Someone who knows what they're doing with IO sets and builds would probably do a lot better along the way.

Hedgefund · September 21, 2019

Sonic is the game breaker to pair with Kin, if you're into that. Not only for -res * +dmg, but also the -res * -dmg (meaning the siphon power powers are buffed by the -res in Sonic blasts).

Otherwise, whatevah floats your boat.

Darkir · September 21, 2019

In terms of increasing team dmg and overall mission speed, kin/sonic is the way you wanna go.

Build and small discussion here:

Without_Pause · September 23, 2019

Played /elec and /sonic to 50. Since /elec isn't an option, /sonic is very good and would likely be the one Kin I would roll these days. /rad and /dark would be the others worthy of note. Bah, how the hell did a forget water? LOVE the set, although nothing super specific which helps out Kin. The AoE KD is nice though. The regen/attack is less useful. The set is just awesome, but just not something I would mentally pair together with Kin. /ice and /fire are simply better on a corr.

Talionis · December 30, 2019

If you are planning on soloing then Kin/Dark is very good. Defender debuffs are strong and it’s a great way to increase survivability. The -to hit stacks with the defense shields you’ll probably run.

if you always are on really big teams Sonic is the better secondary but if you solo Dark is better.

Doomguide2005 · December 30, 2019

One thing about Rad blast is while the defdebuff isn't terribly useful in the late game (folks build to hit stuff) nearly every blast will accept an Achilles proc as a result and Neutino Bolt will hold 5 procs (iirc) that cycles silly fast on a high recharge build to the point where it is the attack chain.

Darkir · December 30, 2019

I'd just like to point out that this post was made in September. I would imagine he has made his character and they are likely 50 now. 🙂

Doc Ranger · January 1, 2020

Do you think that Kin/Sonic post is still pretty viable? I was thinking of making one of those.

Darkir · January 4, 2020

On 1/1/2020 at 12:59 PM, Ice_Warden said:

Do you think that Kin/Sonic post is still pretty viable? I was thinking of making one of those.

It should be, but I might change it a little now in order to take Screech as I wasn't aware that it's -res lasts longer than the others.

$oedipus_tex$ · January 4, 2020

Based on what you listed you didn't want to play, I'd roll Water.

Kinetics desires safety, it's the sets biggest weakness. Water is not 100% safe, but all the knockdown helps a lot.

The second thing Kinetics desires is damage procs. Water delivers. Check out your options for slotting Dehydrate for example:

AWOL · January 5, 2020

Summary: Ice 🙂 and consider Corrupters

I have played two Kinetics characters.... Lord Giro (played from launch) was a Kin/Elec defender and I believed that the drain aspect would have more than an effect than it does in the real world (due to the way mob attacks don't require the full amount of end for an attack), and a kin/ice corrupter. I have a time/fire corrupter and wanted a kin def but after some research decided that for a defender the two obvious secondaries to pair with Kin are:

1. Fire

2. Ice

and these would be my recommendations but both work best as Corrupters. Fire gives awesome DPS (especially good as an AOE bomb for trash) but Ice has holds and my favourite AOE (on a long cool down). If I was sticking to defender kinetics then I'd go Kin/Ice if soloing matters as Ice has holds which enabled me to complete missions that I would never have been able to complete without maybe doing them as boring -1. So for soloing I'd go Ice. Ice/Kin/Mace corrupter or Kin/Ice/Mace defender.

Other thoughts: Everyone always says sonic is the best secondary for Defenders in teams but the noise means I have never played it. 've just started with Dark as a secondary (not on a kin and that is an interesting set too.

Edited January 5, 2020 by AWOL

Redlynne · January 5, 2020

If you don't mind weapon redraw (or pick a weapon that allows for a no redraw animation option in the costume editor) you might want to consider Kinetics/Beam Rifle and plan on using Repel as your "keep away" power in addition to all of the Knockdown that Beam Rifle does. The advantage here is that relatively few Kinetics powers require heavy slotting, allowing for most/all of your secondary attacks to be heavily slotted. Would probably wind up being a very interesting combination to play (and now that I think about it, I'm kind of getting interested in playing it myself...).

Call Me Awesome · January 5, 2020

I've played Kin/Rad and Kin/Sonic to 50; both are quite competent and work well together. Personally I prefer the -res in Sonic, it really works well to amp up the team's damage. While the -def in Rad improves hit chances I find that most players in the mid to late game are already at or near the 95% hit cap making -def less useful. Also, you'll be running Tactics anyway... Defenders get so much good out of the Leadership pool it's almost a crime to not take it. -Res is always useful no matter what the team's abilities... even if they're at the damage cap from Fulcrum the -res still increases their damage output.

In the early game to maybe mid-30's Rad's -def will be valuable with that value declining as you approach the end game. Sonic's -res will always be beneficial.

Rhaethe · January 13, 2020

On 12/30/2019 at 2:32 PM, Darkir said:

I'd just like to point out that this post was made in September. I would imagine he has made his character and they are likely 50 now. 🙂

Nah. I am Altitis Girl ...one of those that get struck with it hard. There is always that shiny new concept I MUST TRY NOW. I do play them all, mind you ... But none are 50. 😉 Yet.

~C

Edited January 13, 2020 by Rhaethe

Doc Ranger · March 28, 2020

I am going to bring this topic back to the top real quick. I also am ready to roll a Kin/? Defender for a team based build. I am more focused on AOE damage effects than single target. Also, would Kin be better on a Controller?

Redlynne · March 28, 2020

30 minutes ago, Ice_Warden said:

I also am ready to roll a Kin/? Defender for a team based build. I am more focused on AOE damage effects than single target.

There's a lot to be said for a Kinetics/Sonic Defender doing the (and I quote) ... Buff Debuff ... (end quote).

Doc Ranger · March 28, 2020

Let's remove sonic from the equation due to me not enjoying the effects and sounds...what's left?

Darkir · March 28, 2020

1 hour ago, Ice_Warden said:

Let's remove sonic from the equation due to me not enjoying the effects and sounds...what's left?

DP and Rad. DP has great proc options and Rad has some proc options and good AoE.

Hjarki · March 28, 2020

In terms of what archetype to use for Kinetics, it doesn't matter much if you're playing a purely support-based character. If you also intend to solo, Defenders will a much easier time with defenses, Corruptors have the higher +damage cap and Controllers have pets.

Personally, I'm of the inclination that Corruptor generally makes the most sense - but it's a bit tricky to not become a pure glass cannon. Something I tweaked a bit is below.

I haven't really played this, but it should more or less work. Against large spawns, you can use the KB/-hit to bridge the gaps in your defense. You've got two defensive cooldowns as well (Unleash Potential, Power Boost). Against hard single targets, you've got the ability to reduce their resists and debuff them (albeit through their heavy resists). However, your primary defense would be Siphon Speed'ing them to a crawl and staying out of range of their most dangerous attacks.

The lack of single target attacks is largely due to the presence of Torrent (fast activating, 80 range attack) and the sheer amount of 'busy work' involved in handling all the Kinetics abilities. Basically you've got Moonbeam hitting like a truck, followed by various debuffing and some stray damage, followed by Moonbeam as soon as it comes off recharge.

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7

https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Corruptor

Primary Power Set: Dark Blast

Secondary Power Set: Kinetics

Power Pool: Fighting

Power Pool: Force of Will

Power Pool: Flight

Power Pool: Concealment

Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:

Level 1: Gloom

(A) Superior Scourging Blast - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime: Level 50
(3) Superior Scourging Blast - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50
(3) Superior Scourging Blast - RechargeTime/PBAoE +End: Level 50
(5) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(5) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(7) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50

Level 1: Transfusion

(A) Touch of the Nictus - Chance for Negative Energy Damage: Level 50
(7) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Healing/Absorb: Level 50
(9) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Healing/Absorb: Level 50
(9) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb: Level 50
(11) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance: Level 50
(11) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance: Level 50

Level 2: Moonbeam

(A) Sting of the Manticore - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(13) Sting of the Manticore - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(13) Sting of the Manticore - Chance of Damage(Toxic): Level 50
(15) Damage Increase IO: Level 50
(15) Experienced Marksman - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(17) Experienced Marksman - Range/Fast Snipe: Level 50

Level 4: Siphon Power

(A) Accuracy IO: Level 50

Level 6: Kick

(A) Empty

Level 8: Tenebrous Tentacles

(A) Superior Malice of the Corruptor - Recharge/Chance for Negative Energy Damage: Level 50
(17) Superior Malice of the Corruptor - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(19) Superior Malice of the Corruptor - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(19) Superior Malice of the Corruptor - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(21) Superior Malice of the Corruptor - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(21) Superior Malice of the Corruptor - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

Level 10: Siphon Speed

(A) Pacing of the Turtle - Accuracy/Slow: Level 50
(37) Pacing of the Turtle - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50
(39) Pacing of the Turtle - Range/Slow: Level 50
(39) Pacing of the Turtle - Endurance/Recharge/Slow: Level 50
(39) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
(40) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50

Level 12: Weaken Resolve

(A) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff: Level 20
(40) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage: Level 50
(40) Shield Breaker - Chance for Lethal Damage: Level 30
(43) Cloud Senses - Chance for Negative Energy Damage: Level 30
(43) Accuracy IO: Level 50

Level 14: Mighty Leap

(A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points): Level 50
(48) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range: Level 50

Level 16: Tough

(A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All): Level 50
(23) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance: Level 40
(23) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance: Level 50
(25) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50
(25) Aegis - Resistance: Level 50

Level 18: Torrent

(A) Superior Scourging Blast - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(27) Superior Scourging Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50
(27) Superior Scourging Blast - Damage/RechargeTime: Level 50
(29) Overwhelming Force - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(29) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge: Level 50
(31) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown: Level 50

Level 20: Speed Boost

(A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points): Level 50

Level 22: Weave

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed: Level 50
(31) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All): Level 50
(31) Kismet - Accuracy +6%: Level 30
(33) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage: Level 50
(33) Reactive Defenses - Defense: Level 50
(33) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance: Level 50

Level 24: Unleash Potential

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed: Level 50
(50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge: Level 50
(50) Luck of the Gambler - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

Level 26: Hover

(A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range: Level 50
(48) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance: Level 50

Level 28: Fly

(A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points): Level 50

Level 30: Afterburner

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed: Level 50

Level 32: Blackstar

(A) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage: Level 50
(34) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(34) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(34) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
(36) Armageddon - Damage: Level 50
(36) Fury of the Gladiator - Chance for Res Debuff: Level 50

Level 35: Transference

(A) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(45) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
(45) Preemptive Optimization - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
(45) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Endurance: Level 50
(46) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Recharge: Level 50
(46) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50

Level 38: Fulcrum Shift

(A) Accuracy IO: Level 50
(46) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50

Level 41: Dark Embrace

(A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%: Level 30
(42) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection: Level 30
(42) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP: Level 50
(42) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance: Level 50
(43) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50

Level 44: Power Boost

(A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
(48) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50

Level 47: Stealth

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed: Level 50

Level 49: Grant Invisibility

[*] (A)

Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed: Level 50

Level 1: Sprint

(A) Celerity - +Stealth: Level 50

Level 2: Health

(A) Miracle - +Recovery: Level 40
(36) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance: Level 50
(37) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery: Level 50

Level 2: Hurdle

(A) Empty

Level 2: Stamina

(A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 50
(37) Performance Shifter - EndMod: Level 50

Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon

------------

Edited March 28, 2020 by Hjarki

Doc Ranger · March 28, 2020

I like Rad's 3 AOE attacks. I see Water has 3 also. Which one of those do you think would mesh well?

Redlynne · March 28, 2020

7 hours ago, Ice_Warden said:

I like Rad's 3 AOE attacks. I see Water has 3 also. Which one of those do you think would mesh well?

Water has a (somewhat) freeform combo system that doesn't take kindly to other powers being blended into the mix. Tidal Power charges have durations that expire, so you need to be careful with the "shaping" of your attack chain to not be casting too many Kinetics (or other) powers while holding stacks of Tidal Power charges or the charges will expire on you before you can use them. However, that Tidal Power combo system also lets you (at 3 charges) use a faster animating version of Water Jet that also instantly recharges Water Jet so you can use Water Jet twice in a row. Dehydrate can be slotted up with Accurate Healing sets (specifically, 4 of one set plus both Accurate Healing procs) to become a generator of Tidal Power charges and a consumer of them that massively increases your sustain on both healing and endurance, which kind of makes Transfusion and Transference somewhat redundant (for healing and endurance management).

Radiation doesn't have the Water combo system to worry about, so you'd be able to mix and match primary and secondary powers with less demand on using secondary only powers, yielding a more relaxed and flexible playstyle.

Doc Ranger · March 28, 2020

Thinking I’ll give Kin/Rad a go then.

I’ll start searching for builds for IO set slotting ideas. Unless someone here can provide some build ideas :)

r0y · March 28, 2020

Rad has a better Aim than Tidal Forces (50% damage vs. 25% damage), unless you really need the Tidal Power stacks (3, I believe)...

Both sets (Radiation Blast and Water Blast) also give plenty of -Def which helps Kin, as you really need to hit things to make it work (which you should, but -Def is still helpful). However, water has a lot of -speed thrown in. Both have some knock-down. Rad has a bit more "control" with stun (mag3!) and hold (mag 3; via nuke).

Water has a heal, which you do not need (it's slow, too); is mostly smashing damage, which is resisted more than energy, I believe (could be wrong, it might change in the post-50 incarnate stuff). Irradiate can have a variety of usefulness as a proc mule, either all damage or all debuff, etc. Note: PROC's are NOT affected by Kin's +damage (or any +damage for that matter), so maybe using Irradiate for more -Res/debuffs is ideal?

I'd also lean towards Radiation blast, as on a defender, it's not bad. I like to go more buff/debuff than damage when I do defenders, so I'd proc things out in the blast set accordingly, and see how it plays.

Edited March 28, 2020 by r0y

LordXenophon · March 28, 2020

Ice Blast, for even more slows.

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Kin Defender Secondaries

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