Force Feedback proc in AoE attack

[Shred Monkey]

How does this proc work?  Is there a chance to trigger once per use, or is it dependent on the number of targets it hits (assuming slotted in an AoE).  Does it matter if the attack hits multiple times per use? 

 

(I'm looking at slotting it in Empty Clips from Dual Pistols and I want to understand its technical mechanics).

 

 

[DarknessEternal]

 

[Redlynne]

Maximum 1 proc per activation of power.

However an AoE attack checks proc chances against each $Target hit, so if you're attacking more than 1 $Target with the AoE you get multiple chances to proc ... but you'll still only get 1 Force Feedback proc per power activation.

 

This is why people advise you to put Force Feedback procs into AoE attacks, because in aggregate you're more likely to successfully proc per attack than you would if putting the proc into a single target attack, despite the modifiers to proc chance for being an AoE.  In most cases, so long as you're hitting 2+ (sometimes 3+) $Targets your chance for a successful proc is higher from an AoE than from a single target attack.

 

So you don't get multiple PROCS per AoE attacks, but you do get multiple proc CHANCES per attack ... and if any of them are successful then that's your 1 successful proc for that AoE attack.

 

In other words, you only "need" one proc to "work" out of an AoE for it to "count" for the proc being successful on that attack.

[Bopper]

In the guide, I specifically tested empty clips if you'd like to see the performance. But as mentioned, the probability to proc is equal to 1 - Probability to not proc on all hit targets. Using the formula in the guide, you get:

1 - (1 - Prob2Proc)^n, where n is the number of targets hit by empty clips

[Lockpick]

I don't want to open another thread, although my question is not about AOE specifically.  I'm trying to understand what happens if FF procs. 

 

The tool tip states, "Gives a chance to boost the recharge time of all your powers by 100% for 5 seconds.  This effect will trigger roughly 2 times per minute".

 

For example, how much time does it reduce Hasten if it procs?  Hasten base recharge is 7 minutes and 30 seconds.

I have FF in 3 seperate powers.  I assume I have an option to get it to proc twice per minute with each power.  Is this the case?  I understand it doesn't stack.

Does FF effect Incarnate powers?

 

Basically, I am trying to figure out how much value I am getting out of the 3 FF procs.  I was hoping to shave a few seconds recharge off Hasten and Rune of Protection.

[Bopper]

10 minutes ago, Lockpick said:

For example, how much time does it reduce Hasten if it procs?  Hasten base recharge is 7 minutes and 30 seconds.

To answer that would require knowing the amount of recharge you already have in the power, including global recharge bonuses. There is a guide that discusses how to do those calculations, if I find it I'll link it for you.

 

Although the procs dont stack, I believe they refresh, so there is value for having the FF proc in more than one power. However the reliability of the procs will entirely be based on your slotting.

 

Incarnates have a fixed recharge time, so FF procs won't affect it.

 

Edit: Here's the link 

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Bopper

[Doomrider]

Regarding FFB proc on reducing hasten; I'll use my Warshade an example...

My current build has rather low global recharge (122.5% including Hasten's contribution) as I have a lot of procs in my build in general. Hasten is slotted with 2 rch IO's both boosted to +5 which show 141.3 recharge in mids while hasten is toggled, that's at least 21 seconds downtime... Now I shore up this gap though using FFB procs. I have 3 in my build, 1 in my ST chain and 2 in 2 different aoe powers. When i'm in combat, I'm easily perma hastened and FFB procs allow me to do that. I do not use ageless and I do not use an alpha that boosts recharge. FFB is doing all of the heavy lifting.

Just how much recharge that provides you on a whole, I couldn't tell you exactly but I think this example  does illustrate a bit that FFB can be utilized to a great degree. Typically builds that have roughly over 170% recharge including hasten start to get into perma hasten territory. If I go by that rough metric, I'd say FFB is likely providing at the very least the difference i'm missing in my build which is about 47.5% recharge. Multiple FFB procs basically just increase the uptime of that 100% recharge buff. They are definitely worth it IMO.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Doomrider

[Bopper]

Ok, I solved a simple formula for calculating how long it takes to recharge a power when a temporary recharge buff is applied.

 

X = Base Recharge Time

E = Enhanced Recharge (%)

G = Global Recharge (%)

t = Buff Duration

B = Buff Amount (%)

T = Time to Recharge

 

T = (X - t×B) / (1 + E + G)

 

You can actually do this for multiple buffs too:

T = (X - sumproduct( t_n, B_n) ) / (1 + E + G)

where t_n is the duration of the n-th buff and B_n is the amount of the n-th buff.

 

Let's do an example, let's say you have the following for Hasten:

Base: 450 sec

Enhanced: 95%

Global: 80%

 

Haste buff: 70%

Haste duration: 120 sec

 

Time to recharge:

T = (450 - 120×0.70)/(1 + 0.95 + 0.80) = 133.1 sec

 

Now let's assume you get one FF proc during this cycle:

FF buff: 100%

FF duration: 5 sec

 

The new time to recharge is:

T = (450 - 120×0.70 - 5×1.00)/(1 + 0.95 + 0.80) = 131.27 sec

 

So the one FF proc reduced your recharge by 1.818 sec.

 

Ok, that doesn't sound like much but let's look at the equivalent recharges these two times give us. In case 1 and 2, the average recharge for Hasten are:

(450 - 133.1)/133.1 = 238.1%

(450 - 131.3)/131.3 = 242.8%

 

So that 1 FF proc acted as the equivalent of a 4.7% recharge buff.

 

Anyways, I hope that formula helps.