Suggestions on Nature

Call Me Awesome · October 27, 2019

I'd originally thought to roll a Rad/? defender next but then I realized I already had a Water/Rad Cor going so my altitis kicked in and I started pondering Nature. It's a set I've never played... for that matter I know almost nothing about it other than what I see in Mid's. It looks like it has a good selection of debuffs and buffs and at a glance looks like it would work well with Sonic, any opinions? Also, any opinions on the set itself? Good powers, mediocre powers, bad powers?

From the look of it Entangling Aura looks to be pretty useless with only a Mag 1 hold but it seems everything else is decent to good. Looks like it's a set that wants to stay at range so IO sets would focus on recharge and ranged defense?

Darkir · October 27, 2019

I made this in another thread and out of the secondary versions to pair with nature, I like this the best: nature/water

Essentially water works great because you get some very nice FF proc opportunities that allow you to have overgrowth up permanently. This has softcapped melee/ranged defense and hardcapped s/l res with plenty of other resistances to boot.

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Nature Affinity
Secondary Power Set: Water Blast
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Corrosive Enzymes -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Aqua Bolt -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3)
Level 2: Regrowth -- Heal-I(A)
Level 4: Water Burst -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(5), Ann-Dmg/Rchg(7), FrcFdb-Rechg%(9)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(31)
Level 8: Lifegiving Spores -- Heal-I(A)
Level 10: Whirlpool -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(11), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(33)
Level 12: Wild Growth -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(34), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(13), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(43)
Level 14: Wild Bastion -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(15), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(15), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(19), NmnCnv-Heal(19), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(21)
Level 16: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(17), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(17), Ksm-ToHit+(48)
Level 18: Tidal Forces -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(21), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(23), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(23), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(25), GssSynFr--Build%(25)
Level 20: Dehydrate -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(40), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(50), GldArm-3defTpProc(50)
Level 26: Entangling Aura -- Lck-%Hold(A)
Level 28: Water Jet -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(29), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(48)
Level 32: Overgrowth -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(36), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(36), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Obl-%Dam(37)
Level 38: Geyser -- Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(39), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Rgn-Knock%(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40)
Level 41: Dark Embrace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42), UnbGrd-Max HP%(42)
Level 44: Soul Drain -- SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(46), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(46)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(9)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(7)
Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
Level 1: Quick Form
------------

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SmalltalkJava · October 27, 2019

Entangling Aura works pretty well.

Darkir · October 27, 2019

1 hour ago, SmalltalkJava said:

Entangling Aura works pretty well.

True, I forgot to mention that with entangling aura running with a lockdown proc in it that occasionally even bosses will be held.

Call Me Awesome · October 27, 2019

13 hours ago, SmalltalkJava said:

Entangling Aura works pretty well.

Ah, so it's a Choking Cloud analogue? While I take Choking Cloud on a Fire/Rad controller due to the synergy with Hot Feet I don't take it on a Rad defender since there's no real reason to hang out in melee. It's the combination of Hotfeet/CC that makes it so desirable on the 'troller IMO.

14 hours ago, Darkir said:
I made this in another thread and out of the secondary versions to pair with nature, I like this the best: nature/water

Essentially water works great because you get some very nice FF proc opportunities that allow you to have overgrowth up permanently. This has softcapped melee/ranged defense and hardcapped s/l res with plenty of other resistances to boot.
Reveal hidden contents
Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Nature Affinity
Secondary Power Set: Water Blast
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Corrosive Enzymes -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Aqua Bolt -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3)
Level 2: Regrowth -- Heal-I(A)
Level 4: Water Burst -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(5), Ann-Dmg/Rchg(7), FrcFdb-Rechg%(9)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(31)
Level 8: Lifegiving Spores -- Heal-I(A)
Level 10: Whirlpool -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(11), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(33)
Level 12: Wild Growth -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(34), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(13), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(43)
Level 14: Wild Bastion -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(15), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(15), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(19), NmnCnv-Heal(19), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(21)
Level 16: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(17), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(17), Ksm-ToHit+(48)
Level 18: Tidal Forces -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(21), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(23), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(23), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(25), GssSynFr--Build%(25)
Level 20: Dehydrate -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(40), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(50), GldArm-3defTpProc(50)
Level 26: Entangling Aura -- Lck-%Hold(A)
Level 28: Water Jet -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(29), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(48)
Level 32: Overgrowth -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(36), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(36), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Obl-%Dam(37)
Level 38: Geyser -- Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(39), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Rgn-Knock%(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40)
Level 41: Dark Embrace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42), UnbGrd-Max HP%(42)
Level 44: Soul Drain -- SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(46), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(46)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(9)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(7)
Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
Level 1: Quick Form
------------
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The Nature/Water combo is interesting; it certainly works thematically. Water seems to be about slows and -defense as secondary effects while Sonic is about -res. I have mid-30's characters with both sets so I'm somewhat familiar with them, albeit the Corruptor versions. That's a fairly impressive Nature/Water build and I see why you spend time in Melee with it.

Erydanus · October 28, 2019

Yeah Entangling Aura is like choking cloud. It looks really cool though, you get a spiral of ivy around you. I mean, it's better than some auras but definitely a build specific kind of thing. Your idea that it's a ranged set is a little off. The AoE heal is a fat cone, but the shield and absorb buffs and tier 9 damage buff are all PBAOE; this is perhaps why it got a PBAOE ~~heal~~ hold. I think the intent was to be up in combat but if you need to directly heal, you'll just take a couple steps back briefly to use the cone. You can also place your heal zone and move it with you, so that's a bit of fiddly action; I've been thinking of writing a macro to make Lifegiving Spores effectively PBAOE.

So I've got Nature on both a mastermind and on a defender and I can tell you: this set just works. Plenty of mitigation, some great buffs, generous healing, and some key debuffs. I mean, the -regen in the set is the anchored toggle that makes a giant mushroom grow on the target's head (really hilarious on giant monsters since it scales up).

As far as your attack secondary I think you should just take whatever seems fun. Work the concept. Overgrowth gives you an insane damage buff so if you ever wanted to just shoot dudes with a nonsynergistic blast type and then spam buffs/heals as needed, this is the set for it. That's actually what I did, I wanted to do Dual Pistols just because they're fun to use but not really what I'd consider a great choice for a defender but I'm running Nature Affinity so who cares?

Edited October 30, 2019 by Erydanus
goofup

Call Me Awesome · October 29, 2019

Interesting, I guess I'll try out various powers and respec if needed. I've decided to go with Nature/Sonic; I know the Sonic set pretty well and I like the -res it tosses out. As for a concept I'm thinking about a tiny fairy character with a big mouth. Unfortunately I can't make a character the size of the buff pet fairy but that's what I think I'll go for.

Ankhammon · October 30, 2019

One of the tasty little treats in Naff that most ppl don't notice is the combo of end regain in Lifegiving Spores and the End discount in Overgrowth.

Call Me Awesome · October 31, 2019

Well, I just hit 20 on my Nature/Sonic defender and it's quite effective so far in team support with a fair bit of damage tossed in. I've so far taken everything in the primary and finding uses for most of it. I'm trying to decide on slotting; Spore Cloud and Corrosive Enzymes are fairly obvious since they don't have a lot of set choices. Lifegiving Spores I'm debating on going with heal sets or Performance Shifter. Wild Growth and Bastion seem to want recharge and heal although I'm kind of leaning toward frankenslotting Growth with Heal/recharge and Resistance/Recharge.

Ah slotting tradeoffs. How do those of you with experience in this set handle it? I'm definitely going shopping for the Defender IO sets, after that I'm uncertain. Fortunately Sonic has several skippable powers to make room for the Leadership toggles.

Ankhammon · October 31, 2019

As far as slotting for Spores, I remember trying just plain Heal x 2/End x 2 early on (admittedly, I never finished the char) and almost all my healling and all my end needs went away. I relied on it when I had a massive AV battle (like 45 minutes or so on a test char).

Looks like fully loaded LS is giving ~3 end and ~10 hp per tick.

I bring this up because much of the consensus at the time was it wasn't really needed as a power.

SmalltalkJava · October 31, 2019

For lifegiving spores I usually go 5 Panacea, and i put the proc in there. that way the proc helps everyone that is in it. But it's all up to you and what you want your build goals to be. For Bastion I go 6 Preventive Medicine.

Call Me Awesome · October 31, 2019

You know, when your team is fighting +3 mobs, scattering to the 4 corners and aggroing everything it's kind of hard to keep them alive.🤬

Sir Myshkin · November 2, 2019

Something important to mention that gets missed a lot when Nature is talked about is the Bloom effect, and how that works with Lifegiving Spores. Each stack of Bloom (up to 5) boosts healing effects by 4%, any heal effect, not just yours. LS when placed on its own isn't anything significant, but when it hits on a target carrying +20% effective heal, it's far more impactful. Bonus for team mates hitting their own self-heals too. Lifegiving is effectively your AoE heal when you pop things like Bastion or Overgrowth.

Also, I super hate Regrowth being a cone as a MM. Pets move about in weird ways sometimes and positioning around them for a heal is irksome. Oh, and the fact that it is a cone that is stuck facing outward, and not locked to a target meaning if you jump... whoops.

Call Me Awesome · November 2, 2019

18 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Something important to mention that gets missed a lot when Nature is talked about is the Bloom effect, and how that works with Lifegiving Spores. Each stack of Bloom (up to 5) boosts healing effects by 4%, any heal effect, not just yours. LS when placed on its own isn't anything significant, but when it hits on a target carrying +20% effective heal, it's far more impactful. Bonus for team mates hitting their own self-heals too. Lifegiving is effectively your AoE heal when you pop things like Bastion or Overgrowth.

Also, I super hate Regrowth being a cone as a MM. Pets move about in weird ways sometimes and positioning around them for a heal is irksome. Oh, and the fact that it is a cone that is stuck facing outward, and not locked to a target meaning if you jump... whoops.

I've noticed the issue with Regrowth... if the team's a little spread out it can be hard finding and hitting the person who needs it with the heal. And it suffers from the same issue Rad has with the anchor debuff, either mobs get scattered from the anchor or it's "Look, an anchor! Kill it FIRST!" At least the anchor sticks around on the corpse awhile now.

And we all know about the KB happy teammate that scatters a nice tight group all over the place, I ran into that on a Penny Yin the other day playing my Stalker. We had a newbie player with a Storm who tossed Tornado into the middle of the spawn JUST after the tank had started to get aggro. He also had the idea of "helping" the tank by standing next to him with Hurricane running, and I think he must have had chat turned off as he never responded to many requests to stop.

Vanden · November 4, 2019

On 10/31/2019 at 5:12 PM, Call Me Awesome said:

You know, when your team is fighting +3 mobs, scattering to the 4 corners and aggroing everything it's kind of hard to keep them alive.🤬

But if your teammates never die then you don't get to use your rez

Ankhammon · November 4, 2019

38 minutes ago, Vanden said:

But if your teammates never die then you don't get to use your rez

I wish someone had the old healer doc from early CoH.

It was pages of absolute hilarity. The author argues that the most important person to the team is the healer and he/she needs to be ready to heal at a moments notice. So, it is poor healing to heal others and waste all your endurance when you need to put things in priority. Furthermore, you should only use your most powerful heal on others which was, of course, the rez.

Anyone else remember that forum post?

It was gold I says, pure gold. 🙂

Max Firepower · December 24, 2020

On 11/3/2019 at 10:24 PM, Ankhammon said:

I wish someone had the old healer doc from early CoH.

Anyone else remember that forum post?

It was gold I says, pure gold. 🙂

You can’t use the search function to my knowledge, but... you can dig around if you know what section it was in.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120904100458/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/forumdisplay.php?f=547

Pylon Test Run Submission	Proc Monsters (Controller Edition)	Proc Monsters (Defender Edition)
Pylon Test Run Results	Proc Monsters (Tanker Edition)	"Mad King Special"
"Ceterum autem censeo	Iram esse delendam"	Mad King Special - Force Edition (NEW!)

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