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I think this thread has gone way past any benefit.  A disruptive player has no legitimate complaint if the team lead kicks them.  In fact, nobody has any legitimate complaint about getting kicked for any reason, the team leader has the final say on what happens on his team.

 

Personally I VERY rarely kick anyone... I think I've only had to do it 3 or 4 times since 2004.  Still, he who holds the star has control over who's on the team.  Ask the disruptive player to cease being disruptive, if that fails then simply kick them from the team.  Do NOT rant and rave about them, simply remove the problem and move on.  Nobody is required to team with a specific player and nobody is required to keep any player on their team.

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Guardian Survivor, occasional tanker and player of most AT's.

Guides: Invulnerability Tankers, The first 20 levels.  Invulnerability Tankers Soft Cap defense

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1 hour ago, jubakumbi said:

Even fighting about how they fight!

 

Which was the point of this thread...

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The part that makes me sad is the need for people to even have to engage the GMs over things that are really just personal quirks, not any real problem, just personalities that want to be in control and dicktate or startate to others how to play that cannot abide anyone doing 'things' of which they do not 'approve' ... especially if everyone 'agreed' to follow some house rule, that is apparently like breaking the law, I saw those players compared to mass murders I think in this thread, since both can justify thier actions ... what's the old line? ... "You are not the boss of me."

Take a breath and settle down there, Bevis! That was a long winded multi topic sentence.

 

The only person engaging GM's is the disgruntled and vengeful player who was kicked.

Also, that was not a direct comparison. In no way did I insinuate that playing badly was on the same level as a murderer. Nice straw man though. I'm sure some readers will be fooled by it.

 

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Many seem to think being on thier teams is some priviledge, since, you know, no one else makes teams or something.

You can be snide all you like, it changes nothing. If I build the team, I reserve the right to remove you from the team if you are being disruptive. Like it or not, make fun of it if you like, it changes nothing.

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Yeah, this game forum has always delivered, even back on Live!

I agree. This forum has had me flabbergasted and laughing the whole way. Very amusing the way people can justify their disruptive antics. One thing I have learned, people will justify anything...anything at all, even when they know that everyone else knows that they are wrong. Absolutely comical!  

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5 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Tell that to the rules guy up there...

Uhm yeah nothing in HC rules about discussing GM actions from live. Different game and different team. I certainly wouldnt talk about such things from HC on the forums that would be most unacceptable. Even in my story I didnt name names, even though I do recall the name of both the player and his SG as he had a fairly unimaginative name that was a hybrid name of two comic characters. And the SG was one of the largest on Virtue. My point of the story was to highlight how what you would call chaotic and disruptive play is allowed, while dictating to others and trying to intimidate them into submission is not.

 

So let me be very clear, anyone who cant get along with others and tolerate diverse play styles, when no one is being rude, uncivil, or acting in a disgusting or rude manner warrants mistreatment or being belittled in anyway, and those who cant tolerate others in a game that is in general pretty easy to do well in, and where one really well made toon can carry 7 truly badly made ones that are also badly played, are the ones taht really dont need to team, let alone lead. Because and this has been true of CoH and pretty much all MMO Ive played, the leader should not lead in content they cant solo on their own at the same difficulty the team is running it on. True group activities like raids being the exception obviously, Though in plenty of MMO a well made character actually can solo the raids. The Era of EQ and its 80 man 3 day raids are well and truly in the past when it comes to game design.

 

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1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

even though I do recall the name of both the player and his SG as he had a fairly unimaginative name that was a hybrid name of two comic characters. And the SG was one of the largest on Virtue.

You seem to take such pride in what you did to them. You even admitted that you knew that you were being disruptive to their goals in the co-op zone. I guess congrats? When I read their story, I tried putting myself in both yours and his shoes. To you, you did nothing wrong. You took advantage of their work and got you a few kills. You probably figured taking a few kills here and there wouldn't hurt anything, but as you can see, it set forth a domino effect that did indeed hurt people. You were the root cause of this and you played the rules of the game to your advantage. And instead of placing these people on ignore, like you should have, you chose to take revenge and report them, in hopes of getting them banned...and according to your story, it worked. It would seem as though you are quite proud of that accomplishment.

 

In their eyes, you were trolling them. They tried asking you to stop, you refused, which made them think even more that your true intent was to troll them. So naturally, the spoke before they thought, and berated you. They were wrong for doing this, and even more so for ganging up on you. However, I don't think that bothered you as much as you let on, because you used that against them and reported them, which in turn got them banned. You could have just as easily understood why they were so upset, and simply placed them on ignore and went about your day. Curious...why didn't you? I hope that I am wrong in believing that you chose to report them instead so that you could further disrupt them out of spite? As of right now, this is what I believe...which gives me a very low opinion of you. However, I am willing to accept the possibility that you had no intentions of them losing their accounts, and didn't wish any ill will against them...

 

My conclusion, you started that mess, you set forth the momentum by interfering with their group effort, and you could have handled that way differently. They should have known better, because there are always vindictive people in online games. They should have known better than to even take it past requesting that you stop. Once they crossed that line, they left themselves open for your terror. Both of you are at fault here, however, I feel that you started the crap with a snide grin on your face.

1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

 

 

My point of the story was to highlight how what you would call chaotic and disruptive play is allowed, while dictating to others and trying to intimidate them into submission is not.

This is where you are wrong, I don't dictate anything to anyone. I make a request of them. It is completely up to them if they wish to play nice or not. If they do not play nice, I have the option to remove them and so I do. Once again you are playing straw man with me and putting words in to my mouth, and attacking those words instead of actually engaging in a conversation with me about things that I actually did say. Once again, I am sure some are fooled by your straw man tactics. So good job.

1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

 

So let me be very clear, anyone who cant get along with others and tolerate diverse play styles, when no one is being rude, uncivil, or acting in a disgusting or rude manner warrants mistreatment or being belittled in anyway, and those who cant tolerate others in a game that is in general pretty easy to do well in, and where one really well made toon can carry 7 truly badly made ones that are also badly played, are the ones taht really dont need to team, let alone lead.

Odd, that sounds exactly like a dictatorship...

1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

 

 

Because and this has been true of CoH and pretty much all MMO Ive played, the leader should not lead in content they cant solo on their own at the same difficulty the team is running it on. True group activities like raids being the exception obviously, Though in plenty of MMO a well made character actually can solo the raids. The Era of EQ and its 80 man 3 day raids are well and truly in the past when it comes to game design.

 

This statement shows me that you clearly have no clue about how the mechanics of this game works, not to mention is completely irrelevant to the conversation.

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6 hours ago, Darkir said:

In a BAF your pets are going to be at the softcap for defenses and probably resistances too. There are so many leadership powers, buffs, ageless, barriers, clarions, and rebirths going off in a BAF, how could your pets not be? So points 1 and 2 don't make sense to me given the context of being in a BAF you provided.

 

Point 3. Sure, just please let me know before the BAF starts that you will be using that power so that I can change my settings if I want. I may have it toggled to be affected by it because that's what I wanted while leveling with a friend or something.

 

 

Guess what’s better than having defenses maxed out? Actually not getting hit at all.  Which is what happens when you put your pets in the air. Non flying enemies can’t melee you. Even with defenses maxed out, enemies are still strong enough to kill your pets regularly if you don’t maintain them.

 

At no point in the BAF did I actually hinder the teams ability to beat it with GF. On the prisoners section I made sure to keep distance from others just Incase they didn’t turn it off. (Because quite frankly we all lose if the prisoners get away) as for the rest of the BAF, GF doesn’t hinder anyone in any meaningful way. So no, I’m not going to announce my powers every time I team just because someone doesn’t like to float. If you hate floating that much make a point to have turned off just incase. Thats what most of the folks on the BAF had already done.

 

Imagine having to keep a canned message on standby because you have to accommodate someone else’s lazy or forgetfulness because “oh nooooz I’m floating on the tennis courts”. No thanks .

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

Guess what’s better than having defenses maxed out? Actually not getting hit at all.  Which is what happens when you put your pets in the air. Non flying enemies can’t melee you. Even with defenses maxed out, enemies are still strong enough to kill your pets regularly if you don’t maintain them.

 

At no point in the BAF did I actually hinder the teams ability to beat it with GF. On the prisoners section I made sure to keep distance from others just Incase they didn’t turn it off. (Because quite frankly we all lose if the prisoners get away) as for the rest of the BAF, GF doesn’t hinder anyone in any meaningful way. So no, I’m not going to announce my powers every time I team just because someone doesn’t like to float. If you hate floating that much make a point to have turned off just incase. Thats what most of the folks on the BAF had already done.

 

 

You go right on ahead and keep doing you, boyyyyy! You'll have the whole server ignoring you in no time!!!

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12 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

You go right on ahead and keep doing you, boyyyyy! You'll have the whole server ignoring you in no time!!!

Considering most have taken my side on the BAF as well as this thread, I’d imagine that wouldn’t be the case. You on the other hand have Atleast already gotten 1 block since you’ve been here. Keep it up pal.

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2 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

Considering most have taken my side on the BAF on on this thread, I’d imagine that wouldn’t be the case. You on the other hand have Atleast already gotten 1 block since you’ve been here. Keep it up pal.

You think most agree with you? Really?

 

Also, anyone who plays like you ignoring me is a huge plus. Spread the word! My play style does not offend anyone...like at all. Yours on the other hand...

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2 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

So let me be very clear, anyone who cant get along with others and tolerate diverse play styles, when no one is being rude, uncivil, or acting in a disgusting or rude manner warrants mistreatment or being belittled in anyway, ...

Are you saying that, even after your experience being berated about a raid and harrassed through email, you condone mistreatment and belittlement of others?

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1 minute ago, Solarverse said:

You think most agree with you? Really?

 

Also, anyone who plays like you ignoring me is a huge plus. Spread the word! My play style does not offend anyone...like at all. Yours on the other hand...

I mean so far the data speaks for itself . 3 people on the BAF bitching , twice that many telling them to shut it. Then the fact you seem to have maybe 2 supporters on this thread in terms of GF.... so objectively speaking in terms of numbers yes.

 

I didn’t block you by the way, the other guy did . 

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3 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

I mean so far the data speaks for itself . 3 people on the BAF bitching , twice that many telling them to shut it. Then the fact you seem to have maybe 2 supporters on this thread in terms of GF.... so objectively speaking in terms of numbers yes.

 

I didn’t block you by the way, the other guy did . 

Straw man much? I supported you on the GF in the way you had used it, goof ball. What I do not support is your attitude that you shouldn't have to tell people that you plan to use it before joining a group with people. Your attitude with that is what I am arguing against, not your use of the power...

 

P.S. He blocked me in game, not the forums. It was beneficial to him and myself, since it is very obvious we would not mix well on a team. I am pretty sure that block was not done out of spite or meanness. I sure didn't take it that way.

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3 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Straw man much? I supported you on the GF in the way you had used it, goof ball. What I do not support is your attitude that you shouldn't have to tell people that you plan to use it before joining a group with people. Your attitude with that is what I am arguing against, not your use of the power...

 

P.S. He blocked me in game, not the forums. It was beneficial to him and myself, since it is very obvious we would not mix well on a team. I am pretty sure that block was not done out of spite or meanness. I sure didn't take it that way.

Perhaps you should make a habit of speaking plain so as to not be misinterpreted . Random comments like the one you just made after quoting me on why I used GF are misleading.
 

Maybe next time just quote the part that just has me talking about why I don’t think I should have to announce my play style. Then you would have a  case of a straw-man. 

 

and by the way I’ve always played the way I’ve played with the same attitude. Haven’t had any issues Teaming yet. Also never been kicked 🙂

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4 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

I think this thread has gone way past any benefit.  

If there is any silver lining , maybe the devs investigate why this has over 200 comments and make some improvements ?

 

Maybe GF gets a prompt like TP if it’s not auto turned off? But personally I sorta want GF to made into a map wide effect for pets (see thread on GF) perhaps this thread reminds them of the other ongoing GF thread?

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Guys i've been following this discussion for a while, sorry its gonna be a long one,  I agree with the poster who said its run its course but not in the way he thinks. first of all I can absolutely see why the OP posted, he was upset in game with some other players reactions. that being said how he came across has gotten us all here, for me it could have been put across a bit better.  A little back story from my point of view ive played from the first day the game went on sale I was one of the players who was, ill say it "upset and very angry" when the rug was pulled from under us all at sunset. Where I am now is working 6 days a week having a wife and family 3 boys and also a grand daughter so my time online playing is limited.  i'm also probably in the oldest 1% or maybe that's just how it feels.

We have been given the chance again but im saddened by some of the comments im reading on this topic i'm guessing Gravitus you play a LOT, I wish I could say the same you obviously have a great deal of in game experience and in depth knowledge of the game which I don't as I cannot have the time to get into every post and try every powerset and AT or get into options at Null. In that regard my hat's off to you sir. Berkley some of your comments I, and I see some others, find abhorrent. getting people banned on what seems like a whim and then proudly boasting about it while also saying that you have decided to become a "mentor" to new players. All I am seeing is that  telling others that your way, what ever that means to you, is the best and dare anybody to question you or diverge from what you are doing be it in a team or anywhere else they will have to be chastised/banned or whatever.  I don't think the word you are looking for is mentor, I can think of a few others .

I did not know about Null being able to turn it off  but some people think that im lazy/ignorant or bad at the game, sorry that position hold no water for many of the other people posting, see reason above.

People are talking about being efficient, we are not at work guys/gals, its a game,  games are supposed to be fun and to be enjoyed. im not seeing much of that on here.

Lets try this example the OP was on the BAF   2 people on it with him are myself and one of my sons Specifically my middle son. he tells me that he if flying ???   and needs help. I go to team chat I ask if anybody has GF on and its you.  I ask politely if you could turn it off. You quite rightly refuse for the reasons that you gave. I then explain that the other player is my son who has ADHD and Autism and he cannot understand what is happening because I/we don't know about Null for the reason ive given before. I feel its a small accommodation for a mission which you must play often but we together cannot. Would your reaction and others have been the same. who knows.

 

I would have posted the topic by saying        HI Everyone i've come across a situation where I assumed that people have the same in depth knowledge of the game as I do with regards to GF, can we get some momentum behind getting the GF option at null out there to a wider audience or get a petition going so that its an option if someone in your current team has that power it can be turned off for you ? I would be 100% behind this where can i sign up.

What about a specific set of mishes for Null so that newer players can get up to speed with the quality of life options that are here now ? I don't know i.e. when we hit level 20 or 25 or 30 some of our contacts suggest a visit to Null to find out new options for your character    give it lets see a badge or 50 merits or a new title for your character only when you complete the mishes ??

We must remember newer players are getting to 50 and into incarnate stuff way faster than before some are getting boosted via AE or whatever and are joining any team they can  then find out they are in over their heads, when starting this type of content a simple "experienced players only need apply" i find works wonders.

Everybody learns at their own pace, please dont force feed your playstyle/ opinions down peoples throats. what works for you might seem boring to others. i dont mind jogging along at say +1 having a team thats getting along having a laugh and meeting new and interesting people. A few hours spent like this for me is time well spent.  This community has always been about helping others for me anyway  don't make us Elitists looking down our noses at less able/knowledgeable players that attitude should be for WoW.

I don't think ill be checking the forums for a good while other than updates as im deflated by some of the stuff on this thread. We need to be strong, for me it means sticking together and not getting at each others throats   we're a small community we want more players not less. Thank you for your time and patience. PS ive typed this after a long shift forgive any spelling mistakes.

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This thread makes me think of something Abraxus said, that we tend to pick apart gameplay and playstyles here on the forums waaay more than we do in game.

 

For all these things we're talking about - KB, Group Fly, Whatever - people have clearly had bad experiences with them and others have figured out how to use them to the team's advantage. Our feelings towards them are coloured this way.

 

My entire experience of group fly has been someone turning it on accidentally during an office map, we all got confused for a moment, then the guy said 'oops' and that they're planning on respeccing it out. I've never gone and seen Null about it because it's literally not even occurred to me that it could be a problem. Knowing now that it benefits MMs, I might even get it myself and be aware of my playstyle around other people. This thread has made me aware of that, so that's great. Though I'd rather see Group Fly changed, I think.

I was absolutely ignorant, but ignorance in of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing; it's just how we learn and progress. Our attitudes towards ignorance can be destructive.

 

We've all had bad experiences with knockback. Knockback done well should be unnoticeable - we notice bad knockback. I imagine that most of us aren't people who have carefully thought through how they'd use knockback (I kb>kd most of my AoE knockbacks and I feel that I'm not in the minority here), so most of us have a kind of focusing effect bias on those bad occasions. We need to be aware that a sweeping 'always kb>kd' unspoken law is overkill as knockback has a place and is part of the game, but also to remember to be polite when players may not understand strategy from the perspective of a tank or melee player.

 

Similarly, let's not state that a team wiping because of bad knockback makes the team bad. CoH is an easy game, but there are still plenty of circumstances that can wipe a team and knockback is absolutely a contributing factor. Mix that in with being lower level, the enemy group being malta or the difficulty being a touch too high for the group, and you have a recipe for failure.

 

If a storm defender is throwing around gale and enemies are being knocked off ledges, into other groups, or just generally scattering I'd say "steady on the knockback" and see if things improve. If it doesn't, I'd send a tell to see if they understand what they're doing. If it continues to the point that matey boi is clearly trolling, then the kickhammer comes out. So far, that's not happened. It's not a big deal.

 

Edit: Though I am going to add that fighting up on the sides during an MSR is absolutely troll behaviour and the wrong person got punished, if that story is to be believed. Please don't do it; I don't care whether you're capable of it or not. I don't want to have to waste my time on my tanker having to wrangle my herds off you so I can get them down into the middle for everyone to fight.

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4 hours ago, Mr Isotope said:

People are talking about being efficient, we are not at work guys/gals, its a game,  games are supposed to be fun and to be enjoyed. im not seeing much of that on here.

This is probably the biggest thing right here IMO.

People whos heart rate is so fast, they simply cannot slow down and anyone or anything that slow them down must be villified.

Add in a dose of 'I know the only right way to play' and here we are.

11 hours ago, Gravitus said:

and by the way I’ve always played the way I’ve played with the same attitude. Haven’t had any issues Teaming yet. Also never been kicked 🙂

Same. Never once had a problem. Seen people try and make trouble, they end up leaving because no one jumps on the hate train, seen that for a few reasons.

12 hours ago, Solarverse said:

P.S. He blocked me in game, not the forums. It was beneficial to him and myself, since it is very obvious we would not mix well on a team. I am pretty sure that block was not done out of spite or meanness. I sure didn't take it that way.

I had actually already teamed with you in game for several missions, you caused all the KB.

We had no problem at all being on the same team, I doubt we ever would until you tried to tell someone else how to play.

I would call it 'spite' as much as anything, I blocked you for your, from my observations, devisive and militant attitude over the you thinking you can tell everyone the only right ways to use KB. 

Didn't you already quit playing over the 'oh-so-terrible' PB sound changes anyway?

 

 

More generally....

 

In the end, as far as I am concerned, no matter how many people on any side of any argument it makes dislike me, IMO, reporting anything or kicking others players for other than bug/stuck/sexual/constant harasment/etc. to the GMs just shows a lack of maturity, patience, compassion, and empathy from the person doing the reporting, 99% of the time. And while I am old now, I said these same things on MMO forums when kicking was a new thing.

From my PoV, I just see a bunch of elemetary school children fighting over the right way to play the game they all made up 10 minutes ago, with no compassion or empathy, only the driving need to WIN, be it the forum argument, or the best clear time, in a meaningless void that typically never actually occurs in-game.

 

It's nothing new...every single MMO forum runs around in these same circles, none of this had changed in decades.

For this game, with these forums, I even see some of the same names pushing the same tired BS for years.

 

IMO, you either enjoy arguing about these things on forums, or you don't - these topics are always around...

Just like you enjoy playing a game, or you don't.

I for one have no trouble typing what's on my mind and could typically not care less if anyone agrees with my assessment, approval is not really something I seek from random people in games or on forums.

I just try to present my PoV so that others with the same PoV know they have someone on thier side.

 

But no matter what any of us do online, it cannot ever, ever, never ever, be 'good enough' for a few poeple, because IMO they just like to live with hate and anger.

As I have said, I just try to avoid those people, as in RL, when playing, so they don't harsh my buzz.

 

"Live your best life with no crap" - some little girl on the Internet.

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13 hours ago, Solarverse said:

You seem to take such pride in what you did to them. You even admitted that you knew that you were being disruptive to their goals in the co-op zone.

Wanting to solo due to being on an Oro TF during a Rikti Raid is not "disruptive".  The league was already getting far, far more XP, inf, VM etc than someone running solo.  The impact is negligible at best.

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1 minute ago, jubakumbi said:

I had actually already teamed with you in game for several missions, you caused all the KB.

That's interesting, because I don't have KB on any characters...at all. I slot a KB to KD I.O. in every power that has KB. So unless you are talking about Hurricane, which I stay far in the back of groups with that and use it only to push mobs back to the Tank, then you are completely wrong.

1 minute ago, jubakumbi said:

We had no problem at all being on the same team, I doubt we ever would until you tried to tell someone else how to play.

I don't tell people how to play...I make a request of them. Huge difference.

1 minute ago, jubakumbi said:

I would call it 'spite' as much as anything, I blocked you for your, from my observations, devisive and militant attitude over the you thinking you can tell everyone the only right ways to use KB. 

Spite or not, probably best if this is how you play. I would have most likely ended up kicking you if you actually have this same attitude in game as you display on these forums. Regardless of your reasons, it sure as hell doesn't hurt my feelings. I'm not a fan of bads being on my teams.

1 minute ago, jubakumbi said:

Didn't you already quit playing over the 'oh-so-terrible' PB sound changes anyway?

Strawman....again. I never once said I was going to quit. How does this pertain to the topic anyway? You bringing up some other topic that has nothing to do with this one, then using a strawman argument is exactly the type of reply I have come to expect from you...good job at being predictable.

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3 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Wanting to solo due to being on an Oro TF during a Rikti Raid is not "disruptive".  The league was already getting far, far more XP, inf, VM etc than someone running solo.  The impact is negligible at best.

I strongly disagree, but okay.

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13 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Wanting to solo due to being on an Oro TF during a Rikti Raid is not "disruptive".  The league was already getting far, far more XP, inf, VM etc than someone running solo.  The impact is negligible at best.

Less about being solo, more about being on the sides. Since the Rikti are mainly ranged, the best way to herd the rikti down into the middle is to break LoS and get them to gather at a few points on the way down. It means it's very easy for someone else to steal aggro if they're fighting up on the ledge and not in the middle. Trying to wrangle the aggro back off them just makes a mess.

 

It only takes one person up there to make the tankers' lives slow and miserable, whether they're in the team or not. If the herds are coming in slower, then it does deprive the whole league of all rewards. In some parts of the ship, the tankers get no rewards whatsoever so they're not going to want to be any more slowed down than they already are.

 

(I say tankers well aware that other ATs are capable of herding the MSR. I didn't mean to misreprisent)

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So much silliness here.  Just play with people you have fun with, and don't play with those who aren't fun.  Why are we talking about reporting people for playstyles?  Silly.  Too much blowing mobs apart and I'm probably leaving that team sooner rather than later.  I've even bought people KB to KD procs that they couldn't afford or didn't know existed.  No big deal either way.

 

BAF isn't that long.  If the OP won't turn off group fly and my toon is floating all over the place, I'll just block him and make sure I don't end up teaming with him again.  The game is big enough for both of us.

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4 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

That's interesting, because I don't have KB on any characters...at all. I slot a KB to KD I.O. in every power that has KB. So unless you are talking about Hurricane, which I stay far in the back of groups with that and use it only to push mobs back to the Tank, then you are completely wrong.

I don't tell people how to play...I make a request of them. Huge difference.

Spite or not, probably best if this is how you play. I would have most likely ended up kicking you if you actually have this same attitude in game as you display on these forums. Regardless of your reasons, it sure as hell doesn't hurt my feelings. I'm not a fan of bads being on my teams.

Strawman....again. I never once said I was going to quit. How does this pertain to the topic anyway? You bringing up some other topic that has nothing to do with this one, then using a strawman argument is exactly the type of reply I have come to expect from you...good job at being predictable.

KD/KB - You were running a PB, you rmain I think.

As for the rest, call it hat you like, deride it however makes you feel better, my viewpoint remains...some people just like to be bossy and controlling.

So what if I inject other ideas and thoughts? IMO, they are all inter-related and this is not some court of law or formal debate.

Your driving need to punish me for perceived slights is amusing as always, especially the 'bad' digs...isn't that from like Barrens Chat in WoW, the whole 'bads' thing?

 

The only attitude I ever display is simple.

"Let people play the game the way that brings them joy and leave them alone."

IMO, the mature way to handle that is to simply drop teams and avoid, not kick and report and 'punish'.

YMMV.

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2 minutes ago, Lines said:

Less about being solo, more about being on the sides. Since the Rikti are mainly ranged, the best way to herd the rikti down into the middle is to break LoS and get them to gather at a few points on the way down. It means it's very easy for someone else to steal aggro if they're fighting up on the ledge and not in the middle. Trying to wrangle the aggro back off them just makes a mess.

 

It only takes one person up there to make the tankers' lives slow and miserable, whether they're in the team or not. If the herds are coming in slower, then it does deprive the whole league of all rewards. In some parts of the ship, the tankers get no rewards whatsoever so they're not going to want to be any more slowed down than they already are.

Sorry, but 1 person does not have that kind of an impact.  Every raid I have ever been on has several tanks/brutes pulling via aggro.  If they are worth their salt, keeping aggro should not be an issue. 

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1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said:

Sorry, but 1 person does not have that kind of an impact.  Every raid I have ever been on has several tanks/brutes pulling via aggro.  If they are worth their salt, keeping aggro should not be an issue. 

When LoS is broken, the mobs will attack the next threatening thing, so if someone hits (sometimes even just comes near) a group I've been herding in, they take the aggro. I can taunt them again, but now I have to remain in their line of sight to keep aggro, which means they take a lot longer to come to me. At the last part of the herd, there's the slope down where it's very easy to lose line of sight whether I want to or not. So I end up either frustratingly yoyoing up and down to try and get that group down, or ditching that group altogether and moving on.

 

I have been on raids where there's only been three people herding, others where it's only me. If one person is circling the middle, then you never know if they're going to interrupt your herd or not. I've definitely had it where I've repeatedly seen the same player interrupt three or four herds in one raid.

 

That's an impact, on the respect of the people herding if nothing else.

 

 

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