Might be time for a new tank

[Infinitum]

Thats my baseline.

 

this is the kitchen sink which I've never remotely come close to needing.

 

[Call Me Awesome]

It's good and stout.  Here's CMA's current numbers:

 

Just short of softcapped S/L/E/N, over cap on F/C, 90% S/L resist, 84% F/C, 70% E/N & 54% Psi.

 

By the numbers it's tougher.  Not to say that Shield isn't extremely durable, it certainly is, it's just a small step below Invuln which is a small step below Stone.

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

It's good and stout.  Here's CMA's current numbers:

 

Just short of softcapped S/L/E/N, over cap on F/C, 90% S/L resist, 84% F/C, 70% E/N & 54% Psi.

 

By the numbers it's tougher.  Not to say that Shield isn't extremely durable, it certainly is, it's just a small step below Invuln which is a small step below Stone.

check your defense and regen, a lot more is going to hit you and it will take longer to gain it back also.

 

Plus I can rotate melee core and one with the shield which puts me at or near 90% on everything but psi.

 

I have an invul also with similar numbers to what you habe and on paper it looks stronger but with incarnate shield pulls way ahead in practice.

 

Im still working on the invul though because it's the first one I ever made so I want to be able to do the crazy stuff on it I do on Shield, but right now my Shield is better.

 

And it's not close.

[Infinitum]

11 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

It's good and stout.  Here's CMA's current numbers:

 

Just short of softcapped S/L/E/N, over cap on F/C, 90% S/L resist, 84% F/C, 70% E/N & 54% Psi.

 

By the numbers it's tougher.  Not to say that Shield isn't extremely durable, it certainly is, it's just a small step below Invuln which is a small step below Stone.

It is funny though the similarities between how we both slot.  My invul is also similar to yours.

[Bopper]

@Infinitum @Call Me Awesome, your discussion has inspired me to share something I built awhile back but forgot to post it. It's a survivability tool that allows you to input your character's information and your enemy's information to then calculate how long it would take for your character to die (if ever). I also threw in a Survivability Score that combines your Resistance, Defense, HP, and Regeneration (sorry, no absorb yet) to give it a rating (it's a hack effort, but good enough). Anyways, feel free to use. I posted information on it in this guide

[Infinitum]

15 minutes ago, Bopper said:

@Infinitum @Call Me Awesome, your discussion has inspired me to share something I built awhile back but forgot to post it. It's a survivability tool that allows you to input your character's information and your enemy's information to then calculate how long it would take for your character to die (if ever). I also threw in a Survivability Score that combines your Resistance, Defense, HP, and Regeneration (sorry, no absorb yet) to give it a rating (it's a hack effort, but good enough). Anyways, feel free to use. I posted information on it in this guide

That was cool.  thanks for sharing that!!

[Sir Myshkin]

7 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Shield.

So what's it mean if I can do that with a Regen Scrapper 😛

 

[Infinitum]

2 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

So what's it mean if I can do that with a Regen Scrapper 😛

 

thats cool but whats that green bar do that looks distressed at the top there?   lol

 

I had 11 on me and my health bar didnt move hardly at all, how many can you do at once with it and still survive indefinately?  I can do more than 11 I just couldnt get them to stay on me.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Infinitum

[Sir Myshkin]

1 hour ago, Infinitum said:

I had 11 on me and my health bar didnt move hardly at all, how many can you do at once with it and still survive indefinately?  I can do more than 11 I just couldnt get them to stay on me.

I don't actually know how many I had been able to collect, I ... think there's five or six in that picture, it's kind of hard to tell. Didn't have a taunt, harder to keep those things engaged without it. That screen is pre-sunset too, so it's been a long while since I attempted that. I know the modified Homecoming build has superior performance. Slowly rebuilding a character with it (the Regen part, at least) alongside two other toons so I'll eventually have it functional again.

[Infinitum]

5 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

I don't actually know how many I had been able to collect, I ... think there's five or six in that picture, it's kind of hard to tell. Didn't have a taunt, harder to keep those things engaged without it. That screen is pre-sunset too, so it's been a long while since I attempted that. I know the modified Homecoming build has superior performance. Slowly rebuilding a character with it (the Regen part, at least) alongside two other toons so I'll eventually have it functional again.

What are your other 2 builds?

 

If you need any help leveling or gaining inf look me up on excelsior.

[Odhinn]

Infinitum, have you posted that Shield defense build anywhere?

 

[ninja surprise]

On 11/2/2019 at 3:37 PM, Infinitum said:

 

 

Im still working on the invul though because it's the first one I ever made so I want to be able to do the crazy stuff on it I do on Shield, but right now my Shield is better.

 

And it's not close.

How do the two sets compare pre incarnate, with just standard IOs and no rares?

[Infinitum]

29 minutes ago, Odhinn said:

Infinitum, have you posted that Shield defense build anywhere?

 

i just did here.  Its a good thing i didnt make this build first because i would have never rolled anything else.  I have 3 brutes that can tank and are awesome, 2 tanks that are awesome, but this is the most dynamic on offense with shield charge and mighty radial incarnate then street justice punchy feeling.  and on survival lol  its just awesome.  I giggle everytime i play it.

Captain Infinitum - Tanker (Shield Defense).mxd

Edited November 3, 2019 by Infinitum

[Infinitum]

23 minutes ago, ninja surprise said:

How do the two sets compare pre incarnate, with just standard IOs and no rares?

invul may be a little better there, but still depends on what you are fighting, if its psi  no chance, shield wins easily

 

Smashing lethal which is a majority of what you face early on shield is a tad behind probably.  I honestly didnt stick around too long on early levels with my shield though, i had him to 50 in 3 days.

[ninja surprise]

5 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

invul may be a little better there, but still depends on what you are fighting, if its psi  no chance, shield wins easily

 

Smashing lethal which is a majority of what you face early on shield is a tad behind probably.  I honestly didnt stick around too long on early levels with my shield though, i had him to 50 in 3 days.

I spend too much time alting to get really high 😪😓

[Infinitum]

Just now, ninja surprise said:

I spend too much time alting to get really high 😪😓

i have too lately honestly but i was extremely curious about a shield tank given tank changes coming. so thats what i went with, and it just kept getting more and more fun as i went.

 

So i stuck with it.

[Call Me Awesome]

In the early game I'd probably give the nod to Shield on durability as it matures faster.  Mid game and beyond Invuln will be better in most situations, the Psi mobs being the exception.  End game SO build?  Possibly a tossup depending on mobs.  Endgame moderate IO (Say $100 million) then Invuln almost all the time baring Psi.  Endgame high end IO build?  In my experience Invuln but Infinitum's build is very interesting and could give it a run for it's money.  The last time I played a Shield tanker was on Live and IO's were different then, you couldn't build up anything like the resistance numbers you can now.  Still, both are ending up with similar defense/resistance numbers and Invuln does have Dull Pain waiting in the background, or just there to keep you at the HP cap.

 

By the way, I imagine everyone's aware of this but Invuln's T9, Unstoppable, is a delayed death sentence and strongly NOT RECOMMENDED for any tanker to take.  The one in a hundred times it would save you is outweighed by the availability of your insp. tray (FREE, no power pick) and the greater utility of almost any other power.  It'll cap out your resistances and give a recovery buff but it WILL kill you when it drops 2 minutes later unless you simply sit out of combat waiting for it.  That 100% end drain and 90% HP drain make it useless, a detoggled tanker with 5-10% HP is a dead tanker one second later. 

 

Infinitum, you've given me some ideas for my two Shield characters here... one's an Elec/Shield Stalker sitting at Incarnate T3 and the other's a BS/Shield Scrapper at 45.

[Sir Myshkin]

16 hours ago, Infinitum said:

What are your other 2 builds?

The Regen is TW (what better set to leverage stupid amounts of recharge, right?), the other two toons are, incidentally a relevant Ice/Stone/Soul Proc-Tank, and a Beast/Nature MM (that, at this point, is just to say I did it, as I'm not certain I'm particularly enjoying the journey to 50). The only reason I even side tracked from the Regen was the fact I can't pre-slot pretty much any of its build since it's primarily PVP/Purple/Winter sets and will stand as (just like on pre-sunset) the most expensive build I've ever put together. I did the rough math and it'll set me back about 1.2 Billion Inf, nearly double the standard average of any other build I've designed. Given that fact, I've been a tad lazy about marketing out the influence for it knowing I could just use my existing funds to build the other two right now. 😅 Plus, with all the side testing lately, the idea of sitting down and marketing has been at the far end of bottom for things I want to use my extra time on. Eventually it'll get done, and then I'll be posting a bunch of stupid Scrapper tricks with it.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Sir Myshkin

[Infinitum]

3 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

In the early game I'd probably give the nod to Shield on durability as it matures faster.  Mid game and beyond Invuln will be better in most situations, the Psi mobs being the exception.  End game SO build?  Possibly a tossup depending on mobs.  Endgame moderate IO (Say $100 million) then Invuln almost all the time baring Psi.  Endgame high end IO build?  In my experience Invuln but Infinitum's build is very interesting and could give it a run for it's money.  The last time I played a Shield tanker was on Live and IO's were different then, you couldn't build up anything like the resistance numbers you can now.  Still, both are ending up with similar defense/resistance numbers and Invuln does have Dull Pain waiting in the background, or just there to keep you at the HP cap.

 

By the way, I imagine everyone's aware of this but Invuln's T9, Unstoppable, is a delayed death sentence and strongly NOT RECOMMENDED for any tanker to take.  The one in a hundred times it would save you is outweighed by the availability of your insp. tray (FREE, no power pick) and the greater utility of almost any other power.  It'll cap out your resistances and give a recovery buff but it WILL kill you when it drops 2 minutes later unless you simply sit out of combat waiting for it.  That 100% end drain and 90% HP drain make it useless, a detoggled tanker with 5-10% HP is a dead tanker one second later. 

 

Infinitum, you've given me some ideas for my two Shield characters here... one's an Elec/Shield Stalker sitting at Incarnate T3 and the other's a BS/Shield Scrapper at 45.

Dull pain IMO was what always made Invul a strong set, it was more the T9 than unstoppable - which i never take on an invul unless i just have a spare slot and use it to Mule. 

 

Shield charge is also like a free attack - i normally open with combat readiness (build up) shield charge - crushing uppercut then mighty radial, before the enemy is back on their feet the mob is almost all dispatched.

 

Im going to play around with musculature at alpha once i get things completed as i have it set up in that build, because as it is i never have to use melee core or one with the shield as is. just to see how much extra damage it will allow.  may be the case that its the better way to go in the long run.

 

I did something similar with destiny slot, i also have rebirth in addition to ageless, i thought i may need it against recluse, with his high burst damage but honestly didnt really use it the other night when i took him on.

 

im telling ya though if you play shield, you wont look back.  its that good.  get everything else done with other builds first  LOL  cause i am hooked right now and probably wont play anything else. - for a while anyway till i find another fix   haha

Edited November 4, 2019 by Infinitum

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

The Regen is TW (what better set to leverage stupid amounts of recharge, right?), the other two toons are, incidentally a relevant Ice/Stone/Soul Proc-Tank, and a Beast/Nature MM (that, at this point, is just to say I did it, as I'm not certain I'm particularly enjoying the journey to 50). The only reason I even side tracked from the Regen was the fact I can't pre-slot pretty much any of its build since it's primarily PVP/Purple/Winter sets and will stand as (just like on pre-sunset) the most expensive build I've ever put together. I did the rough math and it'll set me back about 1.2 Billion Inf, nearly double the standard average of any other build I've designed. Given that fact, I've been a tad lazy about marketing out the influence for it knowing I could just use my existing funds to build the other two right now. 😅 Plus, with all the side testing lately, the idea of sitting down and marketing has been at the far end of bottom for things I want to use my extra time on. Eventually it'll get done, and then I'll be posting a bunch of stupid Scrapper tricks with it.

yeah the captain was a billion inf build - could have been cheaper with patience but i dont have much of that  lol

 

Come look me up on excelsior when you want to do some crazy stuff, cause i am all about pushing limits and playing out of the realm of what should be possible  LOL

[Heraclea]

On 11/2/2019 at 2:43 PM, Myrmidon said:

If you go with Willpower, put at least 1 Taunt IO in Rise to the Challenge and make sure that you have Taunt.

If you want those Taunt set bonuses - and some of the sets are quite fetching - RttC is a better place to slot them up than Taunt itself, which IMO never needs slotting.  Then again, tanker RttC is one of those frankenslotting challenges, since you will also want to enhance its regeneration buff, and it's also a good place for a cheap IO proc like Dark Watcher's Despair recharge slow. 

[Kabuki]

Back before the sunset one of my main characters was a SD/SS Tanker, and she was just ridiculous, especially after getting all of the Incarnate goodies. Insane survivability, plus a kind of ridiculous amount of AOE damage. TFs were always fun, especially when Shield Charging and Foot Stomping a big group of Pseudo Romans into the ground!

[FUBARczar]

You really only have two options Rad or Shield, bring the flames b/c idk why there are so many invuln. and stoner fanboys in the CoX world.  Stone is a dinosaur set that has not aged well, and Invuln is chasing the front-runners as an all-around set.  

 

Try Rad/DM/Soul, it'll be easy to get perma Soul Drain, and you can get enough -tohit and def to feel like an armored set with high resists easily capping S/L, E, F & T.

 

Or try Shield with the set of your choice, StJ, DM, etc.

[Infinitum]

13 minutes ago, FUBARczar said:

You really only have two options Rad or Shield, bring the flames b/c idk why there are so many invuln. and stoner fanboys in the CoX world.  Stone is a dinosaur set that has not aged well, and Invuln is chasing the front-runners as an all-around set.  

 

Try Rad/DM/Soul, it'll be easy to get perma Soul Drain, and you can get enough -tohit and def to feel like an armored set with high resists easily capping S/L, E, F & T.

 

Or try Shield with the set of your choice, StJ, DM, etc.

Yeah it would be hard for me to suck it up and play a stoner up even for theme purposes.  Its way too slow and dependent on a kinetic pocket defender to be as useful as newer sets.

 

It really needs a buff of some kind.

 

Invul is really good but chasing the front runners is a good way to describe it.

[Call Me Awesome]

1 hour ago, Infinitum said:

Yeah it would be hard for me to suck it up and play a stoner up even for theme purposes.  Its way too slow and dependent on a kinetic pocket defender to be as useful as newer sets.

 

It really needs a buff of some kind.

 

Invul is really good but chasing the front runners is a good way to describe it.

Having played a couple of stone tankers to 50 on Live I agree, the benefits do not make up for the drawbacks.  If they'd loose the -speed, -recharge & -damage then that might make the difference although the set has the problem of nearly all of it's durability rests solely in it's T9, Granite Armor.  Pre-32 it's one of the weakest sets then suddenly it becomes the strongest and the earlier powers are mostly obsolete.  Granite should be more of an addition to the other armors, not a total replacement for them... in addition to removing the penalties I'd move a fair amount of Granite's protection into the other armors and maybe make it more like One with the Shield... although I'd prefer keeping it a toggle and not a clickie.

 

Let Stone keep it's #1 slot in durability but drop the penalties, or at least severely reduce them.  Keep the -jump as that makes sense, it should be enough to balance out the durability advantage while still keeping the flavor of the set.

 

We'll just have to disagree about Invuln. 😎