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foosbabaganoosh

Anyone have an ill/kin build that has durability?

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Hi there! My main is an ill/kin, and is currently slotted for perma-PA using one of the builds in this thread as a starting point and making minor tweaks: 

 

 

I was hoping someone out there would have a build that does something to make this powerset less squishy. Perma-PA wouldn't be a main priority just getting either defenses or resistance up high so I'm not getting obliterated when things hit the fan. I tried building one myself from scratch and I just do not have the gift when it comes to making builds from scratch for a specific purpose. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

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Here is my quick attempt, with PA being at 67 seconds with Siphon Speed going. No travel powers due to my belief that Ninja Run+Siphon Speed will get you around quick enough with a jet pack as backup.

 

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|5|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

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16 hours ago, ambpup said:

Here is my quick attempt, with PA being at 67 seconds with Siphon Speed going. No travel powers due to my belief that Ninja Run+Siphon Speed will get you around quick enough with a jet pack as backup.

 

Thank you for taking the time! Are these def/res values pretty good for a controller? Since I already have a good build designed for PA and is able to handle content solo/small teams, I wouldn't mind making sacrifices to really buff up my durability. On incarnate trials what with the crazy amount of enemies, I'm drawing aggro regardless of pets and really have trouble telling what's hurting me before I'm dead. Especially with hard hitting attacks I'm taking dirt naps a lot.

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4 hours ago, Extor Prime said:

You picked a sub-optimal primary/secondary combination. That's your biggest issue.

That's his main so it's irrelevant, you could have been positive and helped.

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6 hours ago, flakoff said:

That's his main so it's irrelevant, you could have been positive and helped.

Unfortunately it is relevant. This character will always suffer performance issues, even on teams. Here is why: the primary and secondary work against each other rather than together. Illusion favors being at range and flying. Kinetics favors being in PBAoE and on the ground.

 

/Kin's main mechanism is "steal from the enemy, give to the team"; and its preferred position in combat is PBAoE range, so in the middle of enemy spawn.

 

Illusion is very light on actual controls. Flash is a PBAoE hold, but the animation makes it bad. Other AoE "control" and main damage dealer is PA. PA cannot prevent the character from being hit by enemy PBAoE attacks, and while its taunt is strong, a character standing next to the decoys using /Kin powers can in fact steal the aggro from the decoys. Not good already; now add to that the fact that decoys cannot be buffed by /Kin's "steal from the enemy, give to the team" and things start looking really bleak.

 

Even a defense-capped controller is fairly sqiushy. You cannot cap both defenses and resistances through set bonuses alone, so even though you will get hit rarely, when you do get hit, it will hurt a lot. Generally it is easier to avoid damage being at range (and flying), but /Kin can't do that and remain effective. So it has to kill everything quicky before it becomes a threat.

 

The reason why Fire/Kin works is because it has several tools for AoE/PBAoE mitigation and damage, and imps are buffed by /Kin. It puts out a lot of damage quickly. Illusion can't do that. Decoys CAN be very damaging, but you have to debuff the enemy resistance for them to really shine. /Kin cannot do that.

 

So, to sum up. We have a relatively squishy character that needs to be in PBAoE range, that has one slow AoE hold for mitigation and actual control. Said character has a solid ST attack chain, but its AoE is produced by pets that are unbuffable (PA) and a permanent pet that is quite squishy in melee range (but needs to be close by in order to receive /Kin buffs). Solo, he will struggle. On teams, he'll be annoying because he'll need extra attention to be kept alive.

 

You can play any combo of primary/secondary, sure. But some just don't work very well. Even the gimpiest character can play at -1/1/0/0, but the weakness will show as soon as a proper challenge comes along. I myself would LOVE to play Ill/Kin, but it's just not a combination that will ever work well enough to carry its own weight.

Edited by Extor Prime

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There are far less synergistic combos than Illusion/Kinetics out there. Kinetics is a set available on Defenders and Corruptors, who have very limited control powers, and they still manage to do okay. Illusion is in a better position than most of those sets to distract or occupy enemies.

 

The main drawback of Ill/Kin is the army can't benefit from Fulcrum Shift. But the Phantasm still can, as well as any Patron Pool Pets you happen to pick up.

 

I would concentrate on getting Ranged defense. Here's a basic recipe:

  • 6 slot Coercive Persuasion in the Confuse power: +5 ranged def
  • 6 slot Superior Will of the Controller in the AoE hold:  +5 ranged def
  • 4 slot the single target hold with Basilisk's Gaze: +1.25% defense
  • 6 slot Spectral Wounds with Thunderstrike: +1.25% for 3 slots, +2.5% for 6 slots
  • Steadfast Protection proc in a resistance shield: +3%
  • Gladiator's Armor proc in a resistance shield: +3%

 

That recipe is a pretty basic Controller formula for Controllers who get a Confusion power. It will provide 21 Ranged defense, which is a very healthy starting number. You can stack this with a combination of Hover, Combat Jumping, Maneuvers, and Weave. 

 

Illusion Controllers can cast Group Invisibility for an additional +1.8% defense. There is also Superior Invisibility, but it is an expensive. Maybe not a big deal for a Kinetics Controller though, because of Transfusion.

 

The soft cap is 45% and will make you very hard to kill. But just getting to 35% or so will often make a huge difference, especially if you are good at using inspirations.

 

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Random build thrown together in a couple minutes no idea if its what your after or any good to you

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1474&c=683&a=1366&f=HEX&dc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7 hours ago, Extor Prime said:

So, to sum up. We have a relatively squishy character that needs to be in PBAoE range, that has one slow AoE hold for mitigation and actual control. Said character has a solid ST attack chain, but its AoE is produced by pets that are unbuffable (PA) and a permanent pet that is quite squishy in melee range (but needs to be close by in order to receive /Kin buffs). Solo, he will struggle. On teams, he'll be annoying because he'll need extra attention to be kept alive.

Your breakdown is pretty accurate, but comes off as a little exaggerated. Yeah I'm not gonna be soloing any +4/x8 incarnate content any time soon, but my character has been an absolute blast doing smaller scale solo missions, or when on any competent team as long as I play smart or just pay attention I can really make a difference. The most fun is getting ahead of the tank and hitting a dormant mob with confusion, often proc-ing contagious confusion which helps take aggro off the rest of the team (especially helps if tank isn't amazing or we just don't have one), and PA/spectral terror/phantasm also splits up the aggro quite a bit leaving my invisible self largely unnoticed unless I get sloppy with enemy AoE's. Also flash might be the only AoE hold, but people seem to sleep on how effective spectral terror is on holding down a mob.

 

Again I don't need to sell it, you make very valid and on-the-nose points, just saying the power combo is not as crap as people might think from your response, as long as you pay attention while playing. Kin is a huge game changer for team buffs and ill is great for adding extra targets to a fray. I was simply asking if people could guide me on how to amp resistance or defense so that I wouldn't get slapped and one-shotted by certain enemy attacks. Especially in incarnate content where there can be SO many enemies that you can't tell where attacks are coming from, a little more survivability is desired but won't ruin the game for me if I just need to stay on my toes for certain encounters.

Edited by foosbabaganoosh

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5 hours ago, Meknomancer said:

Random build thrown together in a couple minutes no idea if its what your after or any good to you

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1474&c=683&a=1366&f=HEX&dc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

See HOW are people like you so good at this? I literally spend an hour messing with a build and at the end my totals aren't even half of what you just did "throwing this together". This build looks extremely desirable what with those totals, and it looks like you kept perma-PA as well assuming siphon speed is utilized. Hats off to you, I envy your abilities and thank you for your work!

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That's an excellent build for one so quickly put together.

 

I know you built it quickly, but just so OP knows, I'd not put the 4 slots in Boxing. The power isn't great and you don't need the extra Smash/Lethal defense. Reactive Armor in Tough can also be scaled back.

 

I'd drop Super Jump and replace with Flash, then move all the extra slots opened up by the above suggestion to there, possibly with 4 slotted Basilisk's Gaze and 1 slotted Lockdown: Chance for Hold, which has a big chance of firing in this power and Holding bosses.

 

Great build overall though for such a quick design.

 

 

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20 hours ago, foosbabaganoosh said:

Your breakdown is pretty accurate, but comes off as a little exaggerated. Yeah I'm not gonna be soloing any +4/x8 incarnate content any time soon, but my character has been an absolute blast doing smaller scale solo missions, or when on any competent team as long as I play smart or just pay attention I can really make a difference. The most fun is getting ahead of the tank and hitting a dormant mob with confusion, often proc-ing contagious confusion which helps take aggro off the rest of the team (especially helps if tank isn't amazing or we just don't have one), and PA/spectral terror/phantasm also splits up the aggro quite a bit leaving my invisible self largely unnoticed unless I get sloppy with enemy AoE's. Also flash might be the only AoE hold, but people seem to sleep on how effective spectral terror is on holding down a mob.

 

Again I don't need to sell it, you make very valid and on-the-nose points, just saying the power combo is not as crap as people might think from your response, as long as you pay attention while playing. Kin is a huge game changer for team buffs and ill is great for adding extra targets to a fray. I was simply asking if people could guide me on how to amp resistance or defense so that I wouldn't get slapped and one-shotted by certain enemy attacks. Especially in incarnate content where there can be SO many enemies that you can't tell where attacks are coming from, a little more survivability is desired but won't ruin the game for me if I just need to stay on my toes for certain encounters.

Yeah... Guilty as charged I suppose, I measure everything by a very specific yardstick, that being my optimized-within-an-inch-of-his-life main. Which often leads to fun factor or purely visual appeal falling by the wayside. 

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