Ice Control/?

[Mythcreatio]

I've always been curious about Ice Control, and I would like to give it a try! Are there any complimentary secondaries I should try with it? I know Ice is known as the set that's not the best at control, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun lol.. I've also seen Ice controllers in game who have no problem with the set. So I thought why not give it a go! I love the idea of Glacier!

 

Thanks in advance for any responses!

[ExeErdna]

Personally I'll say Time works well with Ice. The auras in both are the same size and you get both before 10. The only problem this is a low DPS and a overall hot character end wise. Even with the IO's I normally used to stop the end drain on other character this one still feels the heat when I have to start clearing rooms without much downtime. Besides that Ice/Time is still great because you can just stand in most mobs and watch them get snared while the team kills them.  Personally from what I played you'll like having Glacier in this setup because you're mainly gonna be in melee range basically hugging a tank. Don't get Shiver, Flash Freeze or Jack Frost.  Yes don't get Jack it isn't worth the investment if you're gonna group put more investment into time. Now have 4 holds 3 of them come up pretty fast, Glacier is your slow one. A lot of snares, good healing, buffs/debuffs the problem is one thing you have to get use to you don't do damage. You're basically in the room to make sure the enemy has a very bad day. Then for late game either go Ice or Leviathan since Hibernate is gonna be your friend because they'll will be times when another mob or two sees you and start shooting you in group play. Just pop Hibernate and let the party catch up.

[Demon Shell]

Ice Control works better on Dominators than Controllers. Doms don't have to care about the Immobilization at all, because Arctic Air/Ice Slick is already slowing everything to such a crawl they can't escape. Plus every activation of Domination will refill your Endurance bar, and Arctic Air is super super expensive.

 

Regarding Jack, he has a base 25% Def to all typing and AoE. With the +Def IOs taking him to 35%, a few outside buffs is all it takes for him to hit softcap (Maneuvers, Link Minds, Grant Invis, a support pool buff like Fade or Force/Cold's shields). This means he can absorb a lot of hits that would otherwise be directed at you. And because he's melee, he also provides one of the few synergies any control set has with /Sonic, as your anchor for Disruption Field, while you also buff his resist (so that defense makes him last even longer).

 

Jack is a mad lad and will do some stupid things, like aggro an entire mob while you're already engaged with a different one. Then he might tank that mob for a solid minute without any help from you. I've never had a single occasion where he was dead with his summon power was on cooldown. I understand Jack wasn't very good in the past, but with whatever buffs they gave him he's really good now.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Demon Shell
Clarification

[Mythcreatio]

Awesome, thank you for those replies! I definitely have some food for thought now!

Edited November 9, 2019 by Mythcreatio

[oedipus_tex]

I recommend Ice Control on a Dominator over a Controller. Although Arctic Air isn't strengthened by Domination directly, Domination provides mezz protection, which is critical to using Arctic Air. The only Controller secondaries with mezz protection are Force Field, Sonic Res, and Traps, and none of those are super attractive combos for Ice Control (to me). Especially Sonic Res because of huge endurance costs on top of Ice Control's  already steep cost to run Arctic Air. 

 

I had an Ice/Fire Dominator I used to main. Fire is one of the higher damage Dominator sets, making up for Ice's low damage.

 

Other good options are Psi Assault (Drain Psyche gives you regen that helps you survive at close range) and Savage Assault (it contains a teleport attack that lets you instantly close distance and has a reliable heal). I suppose Dark Assault might work as well, though I've not played it much.

 

If you are intent on playing Ice on a Controller, I recommend a secondary that has good endurance management, a reliable heal, and some defense. Dark Affinity would probably be my top choice. I'd try to get mezz protection for the character as early as possible (Psi pool or from the Sorcery set). 

[Nemu]

Ignore these plebs that tell you to roll Dom and make an Ice/Poison. Be a REAL MAN or WOMAN.

 

Reasons:

 

1 - REASONS!

2 - A REAL MAN or WOMAN lives in melee. You got Arctic Air, Venomous Gas, a lot of your powers are pbaoe, hell take whirlwind and embrace it! Whirlwind also scores you extra dope cool points in Atlas park where you can impress newbies with your whirlwindness.

3 - A REAL MAN or WOMAN don't care about no endurance. That's for scrubs and I can already tell you ain't no scrub.

4 - A REAL MAN or WOMAN don't need no self heal. (WO)MAN the F' UP and get in there!

5 - You will only be the SECOND Ice/Poison on the entire planet after me. Mobs see me and they go "WTF ice/poi huh?" and automatically get a mag 30 stun/confuse. For you it'll be a mag 15 stun/confuse.

 

You know what I'll even give you a build. Enjoy this awesomeness, and shh don't tell anyone:

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Vivacious Viv: Level 50 Science Controller
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Poison
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Block of Ice -- Lck-Acc/Hold(A), Lck-Acc/Rchg(19), Lck-Rchg/Hold(19), Lck-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(21), Lck-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(21), Lck-%Hold(23)
Level 1: Alkaloid -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Envenom -- ShlBrk-DefDeb(A), ShlBrk-Acc/DefDeb(3), ShlBrk-Acc/Rchg(3), ShlBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(5), ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), ShlBrk-%Dam(7)
Level 4: Weaken -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(7), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(9), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(9), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11), CldSns-%Dam(11)
Level 6: Arctic Air -- CrcPrs-Conf(A), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(13), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(13), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(15), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(17), CrcPrs-Conf%(17)
Level 8: Super Speed -- WntGif-ResSlow(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(50)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 12: Ice Slick -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Elixir of Life -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 18: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Antidote -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-Max HP%(23), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(40), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(40)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(25), LucoftheG-Def(25)
Level 26: Glacier -- Lck-Acc/Hold(A), Lck-Acc/Rchg(27), Lck-Rchg/Hold(27), Lck-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), Lck-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), Lck-%Hold(31)
Level 28: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(29), LucoftheG-Def(29)
Level 30: Frostbite -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(33), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(33), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(34)
Level 32: Jack Frost -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(A), BldMnd-Dmg/EndRdx(34), BldMnd-Acc/EndRdx(36), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), BldMnd-Acc(36), BldMnd-Dmg(37)
Level 35: Poison Trap -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(37), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(39)
Level 38: Indomitable Will -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RechRdx-I(43), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 41: Mind Over Body -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(42), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Ags-ResDam(42), Ags-Psi/Status(43)
Level 44: Psionic Tornado -- SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(45), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), FrcFdb-Rechg%(46)
Level 47: Venomous Gas -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(48), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(48), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Whirlwind -- EndRdx-I(A), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(40), PrfShf-End%(46)
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
Level 50: Support Core Embodiment
------------

 

 

 

 

[Demon Shell]

1 hour ago, Nemu said:

SNIP

Hell, I'm convinced.

[DrIlluminatis]

I play an Ice / Emp controller and Ice is a decent set. There are a few powers in the set that I wouldn't consider Mandatory to take, so you can concentrate on survivability by taking either the Fighting pool with Tough & Weave, or go with another pool. The key for an effective Ice control Controller is situational awareness and power placement. Arctic Air is definitely a necessity but it's also an endurance hog. Ice Slick can delay enemies long enough that you can finish off a mob while they are all falling down, and Glacier can freeze them in their tracks allowing you time for you and Jack Frost to finish off mobs before moving to the next.

 

It isn't an out & out decent damage set like fire control but it has its strengths.

[oedipus_tex]

What's really interesting to me is the evolution of public opinion on Ice Control. I remember the forums on live where a lot of people would state that Arctic Air was an optional power, rather than the signature power. In fairness though, that was back when the purple confusion graphic didn't show up on mobs affected by Arctic Air, so a lot of people just assumed it was a slow/fear aura  and nothing else.

 

Back then I used to hear people say that Shiver was a viable alternative to Arctic Air, which is a statement on how much the game has changed. 

Edited November 10, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[Demon Shell]

I'd consider Arctic Air a necessity on a Dominator. On a Controller, you'll have it up constantly by end-game when you've got all your endurance issues sorted out. But until then, if you have to choose between a support ability or Arctic Air, most of the time Arctic Air is the move to turn off.

 

This was a change caused by Frostbite no longer granting Knockdown protection so Ice Slick can still keep enemies soft controlled. Ice Controllers don't have to choose between Arctic Air/Ice Slick to lock enemies down, or Frostbite/Arctic Air to hurt them. Now, Frostbite/Ice Slick is often all you'll need until much later.

[oedipus_tex]

8 minutes ago, Demon Shell said:

I'd consider Arctic Air a necessity on a Dominator. On a Controller, you'll have it up constantly by end-game when you've got all your endurance issues sorted out. But until then, if you have to choose between a support ability or Arctic Air, most of the time Arctic Air is the move to turn off.

 

This was a change caused by Frostbite no longer granting Knockdown protection so Ice Slick can still keep enemies soft controlled. Ice Controllers don't have to choose between Arctic Air/Ice Slick to lock enemies down, or Frostbite/Arctic Air to hurt them. Now, Frostbite/Ice Slick is often all you'll need until much later.

 

I find Arctic Air has a weird window of usefulness. It's incredibly strong in the very low levels, until around level 25, when most teams are running at around +0/+1 and prior to a lot of enemies gain mezzes. Then it gradually retreats in usefulness,  only to drop into total obscurity in battles with Carnival, Malta, and Rikti, who seem designed specifically to wreck a PBAoE player relying on a toggle control. Then it later return in usefulness once you've got your mezz protection situation figured out, though its still never as strong as that first stretch.

 

Unfortunately those low levels are now obscured by Death from Below, so you really don't get to see how Arctic Air is one of the best control powers for a Kings Row/Steel Canyon team. The main thing to remember is to just let it run and avoid the temptation to hit buttons for the heck of it. Your damage sucks but if you stand around just mezzing stuff it can transform teams at that level range because no other control power has that kind of up time and does not roll ToHit.

Edited November 10, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[ambpup]

My first controller was a  ice/kin starting around issue 9 on Live and I have to say it was one of the safest (below 30 lvl) heroes I ever played. What I couldn't freeze in holds, I major slowed  between my ice and kin abilities. She was a ton of fun and often I would just do solo missions just because I could (even if Jack wasn't that quick in the take-down). But the fun kinda ended  as I got closer to 50, she pale when compared to my later controllers (fire/storm ,dark/dark, and a few others I'm forgotten). She just couldn't do the damage the others could, even when slotted for it but I still used her every Dec/Jan for Baby New Year  event which I always solo because Snaptooh was her favorite popsicle. 

 

So if you wish for a fun (and pretty safe) ride below 40, then I suggest a ice/kin troller.

[Parabola]

21 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

The only Controller secondaries with mezz protection are Force Field, Sonic Res, and Traps, and none of those are super attractive combos for Ice Control (to me).

I've rolled an ice/traps on a hunch that there is some good synergy between them. As you say traps provides mez protection which ice really welcomes and the chunk of defence doesn't go amiss when hanging around in melee range either. But it's the fact that ice is a largely hands off primary that I think will work so well with traps. You lay down ice slick, run arctic air and immob everything - the rest of your time is free to lay down traps with their long-ass animations. All the traps work well placed right under the noses of the enemy and I'm hoping that the good defences (planning to go with mace) combined with arctic air will allow successful toebombing.

 

The worst part about it so far is the number of click to drop powers - I have them all set up with powexec_location macros but it makes my trays really untidy and it's a bit hard to follow which powers are off cooldown when there are so many. I wish it were possible to have the macro button do the recharge animation that normal power icons do. Also why can't ice slick take a ff+rech when earthquake can?

[oedipus_tex]

I suppose Ice/Traps could work. One thing about Arctic Air that is incredibly annoying is that it drags aggro to the user if you reach the mob faster than the tank can grab aggro. I've long wished the developers would flag the power as a non-notify power. It's a confusion power and a lot of similar powers are flagged that way, including the World of Confusion aura power.

[MTeague]

Well, I tried to roll an Ice Controller, and go figure, the name Kelvin was long since taken. 

But whoever has the name, if you haven't already done so, please do me the favor of taking Jack Frost, and naming him Hobbes. 😀

[oedipus_tex]

You could do something like Kelvin Klein or Kelvin Bacon. 

[ambpup]

Maybe shorten the guy's actually name, "William Thomson, 1st Baron Kelvin" to just 'Baron Kelvin'.

[Leogunner]

I have Zero-Kelvin taken for my Psi/Ice Stalker on Indomitable.

 

I actually don't like Controllers but I decided to roll up one I had on the test server, an Ice/Trick Arrow.  It's rough to start which was helped with Arctic Air (oddly enough, couldn't find any DfB groups on Friday when I rolled him).  It's pretty busy although I do enjoy double Ice holds for concept.  It was a long road to get Oil Slick but I found the build overall has an abundance of slots.  I guess I should start proc-ing up Frostbite (already have the holds and the ST immo proc-ed up with 2 procs each).

[Everon56]

I have also been thinking of Ice controller as Secondary was thinking of Rad, any thoughts about that?

 

[Coyote]

Description of Ice/Rad

[oedipus_tex]

I used to have an Ice/Rad on live. I enjoyed it, but it should be said it's a concept build. Prior to incarnate Alpha slots coming out late in the live game's history, his endurance was close to unmanageable. His damage was so poor that it almost pointless to solo, though I did occasionally manage. The Cardiac slot was a godsend when it came out.

 

That said, some changes to procs since then, and the lower price of some IOs that were prohibitively expensive on live has made this combo somewhat more viable these days. 

 

On the pessimisstic side though, Ice Control was largely designed for a game that no longer exists: where bringing along a teammate with very low damage could be worth it because enemies were dangerous enough that control powers were a necessity. They are still useful, but IMO not like they used to be. I miss that version of the game. (I blame the Destiny incarnate ability personally for making us all just a little too survivable.)

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[roleki]

On 11/11/2019 at 1:08 AM, Leogunner said:

I have Zero-Kelvin taken for my Psi/Ice Stalker on Indomitable.

 

I actually don't like Controllers but I decided to roll up one I had on the test server, an Ice/Trick Arrow.  It's rough to start which was helped with Arctic Air (oddly enough, couldn't find any DfB groups on Friday when I rolled him).  It's pretty busy although I do enjoy double Ice holds for concept.  It was a long road to get Oil Slick but I found the build overall has an abundance of slots.  I guess I should start proc-ing up Frostbite (already have the holds and the ST immo proc-ed up with 2 procs each).

If Ice/TA is your introduction to controllers, I can see why you don't like them! 

 

Actually, Ice/TA is one of my favorite controller builds; it may not make a blip on the DPS charts but soloing is extremely safe (if a little slow) and on teams, you can stifle the mob you're standing in AND clamp down on chaos hotspots 95' in any direction.  

 

Put it this way, if I get on a team that is having trouble surviving, I would grab my Ice/TA before a healer or buffer, because when an Ice/TA is around, you really only need to weather the alpha, and sometimes not even that.

[roleki]

22 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

On the pessimisstic side though, Ice Control was largely designed for a game that no longer exists: where bringing along a teammate with very low damage could be worth it because enemies were dangerous enough that control powers were a necessity. They are still useful, but IMO not like they used to be. I miss that version of the game. (I blame the Destiny incarnate ability personally for making us all just a little too survivable.)

 

I know what you mean; while it's great that virtually any team of any mix of ATs (or no mix at all) can steamroll these days, I do miss the dark times when a PUG could transform from horrible to godmode just by adding the right toon or two.

 

But of course, those were also the days where teams often stood around doing nothing while the star looked for healz and tankz, ignoring what other builds could do.

 

 

 

[Erydanus]

Do Ice Dark.

 

Sweep in with Arctic Air and Shadowfall both going. Slot some damage procs in Arctic Air; who cares if they aggro mobs you've got Shadow Fall (and later, Fade). Stun them with Howling Twilight. Pin them in place with Frostbite, slot it with the energy font proc and create stun aura minions to pacify them further. Drop Tar Patch on them point blank (a macro to make it PBAOE or targeted would be handy). Drain their souls with Soul Absorption, because you're probably about to end crash at this point.) Toss Ice slick out on them at this point to keep them in the tar patch. At higher levels unleash Jack Frost and Dark Servant on them. Use pool attacks if necessary at lower levels to finish off the foes you have shredded to helplessness at this point, and pick an ancillary pool with a great AoE attack. If you bring 7 minions (i.e., players) it will go faster but they won't strictly be necessary if you enjoy a relaxed pace where you can maniacally laugh as you turn your foes into helpless confused mobs.

[Leogunner]

4 hours ago, roleki said:

If Ice/TA is your introduction to controllers, I can see why you don't like them! 

 

Actually, Ice/TA is one of my favorite controller builds; it may not make a blip on the DPS charts but soloing is extremely safe (if a little slow) and on teams, you can stifle the mob you're standing in AND clamp down on chaos hotspots 95' in any direction.  

 

Put it this way, if I get on a team that is having trouble surviving, I would grab my Ice/TA before a healer or buffer, because when an Ice/TA is around, you really only need to weather the alpha, and sometimes not even that.

It's not that I'm new to controllers, I just don't like their concept and powerset combination.

 

But it was partially to do with some discussions about Trick Arrow and wanting to give Ice Control a fair shake.  It's pretty fun.  I have 2 holds (Block of Ice and Ice Arrow), 2 AoE holds (Glacier and EMP), 2 slicks (ice and oil), 2 immobilizes (chilblain and frostbite...I bet you thought I was gonna say entangling arrow, I don't really use that lol) and some decent -res.  Offensive wise, it's kind of interesting to lean on Jack and using the Sorcery Pool heavily is nice.