How do you guys justify your MM versus superheroes/supervillains?

[DeepRootz]

The MM is the superhero/villian.  The henchmen are there fighting because of the MM.  Having buffs/debuffs is what makes the henchmen able to stand toe to toe with supers, and not the other way around.

Edited November 23, 2019 by DeepRootz

[Kommon]

I never had the impression that Invulnerability armors were completely impervious to physical damage like bullets and punches, only resistant to physical damage.  And who says Superman is an Invul/SS Tank?  We can't make direct comparisons like that.

 

Heck, if we go down that route, we might as well say that a Mind/Time Controller can either see their own defeat and avert it or simply mind control their enemies permanently to automatically win every engagement.

[Caide]

1 hour ago, Kommon said:

I never had the impression that Invulnerability armors were completely impervious to physical damage like bullets and punches, only resistant to physical damage.  And who says Superman is an Invul/SS Tank?  We can't make direct comparisons like that.

 

Heck, if we go down that route, we might as well say that a Mind/Time Controller can either see their own defeat and avert it or simply mind control their enemies permanently to automatically win every engagement.

I had asked in excelsior chat and everyone told me that the devs said that Superman would be a natural INV/SS in game. Then a discussion broke out about villain/hero traits and origins lol.

As far as the power of invulnerability, I pretty much define it as being highly resistant to but not 100% immune to laser blasts/beams/slashing/explosions etc. Not like superman not from silver-age who can move planets but kinda like superman from justice league TV series where he can pack a punch but constantly gets beat up on by generic baddies and shot with standard tech blasters while guns like pistols/knives still have no effect on him since they just reflect/break on contact with his skin.

A mind controller/time controller can be explained. You arent a 1 man army, when you face off against 10/20 guys all shotting and attacking you, you cant mind control them all until you get mass levititate/control right? Early on you have to be smart, you have to take them on 1 at time or get them to fight each other. You arent a god, you just can mess with peoples head. A time controller is pretty much same concept, you start off weak unable to control much aspects of time.

What i was asking chat was how does a guy with no powers (thug/trap MM) a couple of guns beat a superman or a golden palm, or a statesman? In what scenario would that make since? Thats the problem I was having with playing my Joker themed natural thug/trap MM. 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Caide

[Kommon]

15 minutes ago, Caide said:

What i was asking chat was how does a guy with no powers (thug/trap MM) a couple of guns beat a superman or a golden palm, or a statesman? In what scenario would that make since? Thats the problem I was having with playing my Joker themed natural thug/trap MM. 

It could be explained that, being a Mastermind, you need to be smarter than the gifted individuals with special powers, like how you mentioned your gang being equipped with Impervium ammunition.   I can't remember Golden Palm, but if it's a lower level hero, maybe their powers are all they can be yet, and regular bullets do actually hurt them, and maybe hundreds of bullets can take their toll.  In the case of a hero like Statesman, you may not need to explain anything at all. 

 

Statesman is HIGHLY resistant to smashing and lethal damage.  When fighting Statesman later in your career, if he is about to be defeated, he uses his version of Unstoppable which allows him take ZERO damage from smashing or lethal sources, making your Thugs, Enforcers, and Bruiser do no damage at all.  In a fight against Statesman, you would need to use your other tools, perhaps laying a trap that poisons him, reducing his health regeneration over time to allow you to outlast his boost in power to take him down with your limitless supply of meat bags.

[The_Warpact]

It's not that they, thugs, mercs, etc are special, its because,  the MM is special because of supremacy which makes normal things extraordinary.

Suddenly street thugs can sj, take hits from powered things, survive bullets, etc.

The spin on how things are done is only limited by your imagination. 

[Talionis]

Don’t forget you have a secondary that you have to explain which may explain how bullets can be made to do more damage.  Kinetics would increase the energy making the bullets faster, but that is just on example.  

[RandomOrc]

If we're talking about things from a story point of view, and not a gameplay one.

 

I'd say that it doesn't really matter if the hero can beat all the thugs you can throw at him, as they're disposable anyway. The ultimate goal is to just show everyone that they're not really as heroic as they pretend to be while keeping yourself as the villian alive at all costs.

 

Though that's just my opinion that loves using thugs/time

[oxmox]

On 11/23/2019 at 2:19 PM, Caide said:

I had asked in excelsior chat and everyone told me that the devs said that Superman would be a natural INV/SS in game. Then a discussion broke out about villain/hero traits and origins lol.

As far as the power of invulnerability, I pretty much define it as being highly resistant to but not 100% immune to laser blasts/beams/slashing/explosions etc. Not like superman not from silver-age who can move planets but kinda like superman from justice league TV series where he can pack a punch but constantly gets beat up on by generic baddies and shot with standard tech blasters while guns like pistols/knives still have no effect on him since they just reflect/break on contact with his skin.

A mind controller/time controller can be explained. You arent a 1 man army, when you face off against 10/20 guys all shotting and attacking you, you cant mind control them all until you get mass levititate/control right? Early on you have to be smart, you have to take them on 1 at time or get them to fight each other. You arent a god, you just can mess with peoples head. A time controller is pretty much same concept, you start off weak unable to control much aspects of time.

What i was asking chat was how does a guy with no powers (thug/trap MM) a couple of guns beat a superman or a golden palm, or a statesman? In what scenario would that make since? Thats the problem I was having with playing my Joker themed natural thug/trap MM. 

The simplest answer would be that the level of invulnerability you're talking about doesn't exist in CoH. This isn't something unique to MMs, these 'invincible' heroes all take damage from human punches, guns, bats, knives etc. When people are described as being invulnerable in CoH, they're just able to take way more hits than a normal person before being put down. There is no Superman equivalent here: neither States nor Recluse have any showings that suggest they are remotely on Superman's level, let alone small fry like Golden Palm.

[ScarySai]

There isn't a problem that excessive, overkill amounts of dakka can't solve.

[Force Redux]

For the OT, my Thugs/Time mastermind's guys are elite scum along the lines of Pitch Black's Riddick enhanced with Matrix-style time-fu powers bequeathed to them via my mastermind. So imagine Riddick with Neo's bullet time tomfoolery. There you go. Super-enhanced baddasses. Six of them. Plus my mastermind. Works for me. 

 

If the MM pet AI changes go through I might work up a Mercs/FF mastermind, and call them all super serum-enhanced troopers with reverse engineered Rikti force technology. Oh yeah.

[Scarlet Shocker]

It's an interesting question, but I think others have pointed out that any character can appear to be "weak" against the regular opposition.

 

Personally I prefer the weaker type of protagonist, up against the tougher opponent. One of my favourite comic characters is Daredevil for exactly that reason and conversely I really actively dislike Superman, because unless his opponent has a healthy dose of kryptonite up his sleeve, he's toast.

 

It's also worth remembering you do have inherent powers to boost your minions, be they pets or henchmen, so it's not unrealistic to say if you're of Magic origin you enchant them or if Tech you upgrade their gear etc so they are then able to cope with said opponent.

 

There's also another option, if you can do it, which is simply not to worry about it. Don't overthink it and enjoy playing the character for its own sake, and if that doesn't work, just let your imagination run wild. Your character's story is yours to own, so do what you think works for you.

 

 

[Heraclea]

My beasts/time MM (whom I have finally decided to finish levelling after making her in May) is an ancient Cretan goddess of birth, love, and death.   Her critters are an extension of her deity rather than ordinary dogs and cats.  And at any rate, she's older than that upstart Zeus, and socially outranks you so far that she owes no one an explanation.