Grav should have "Superior Flight"

[Smello]

I normally don't really care about theme and build to min/max; but I recently built a fresh Gravity controller, and had to pay the 3-power-pick tax to take Flight to Afterburner, because who the hell ever heard of a superhero that literally manipulates gravity and yet couldn't fly? Normally I skip travel entirely and just ninja run everywhere, but just couldn't in this case.

 

Illusion control gets Superior Invis; Gravity control should get Superior Flight. The end cost and def boost of hover, the speed of fly (with suppression of course) and the cap boost of afterburner. I don't think this would be an OP change or anything, because it's really just saving you a couple power picks and some convenience, and illusion or fire are still IMO more powerful primaries in general.

 

I wanted to get input from this forum, specifically from people who've played a lot more Grav than I have. The power that seems most like it could be replaced to me is Dimension Shift, which also doesn't really fit the gravity manipulation theme anyway. Thoughts?

Edited December 3, 2019 by Smello

[Redlynne]

I just pick Mystic Flight (and edit the FX in the costume editor) to give myself not only flight but the ability Wormhole Myself (minus the debuffing) to wherever I want to get to.  It's remarkably useful to have a Fly+Teleport bundled into a single power since it lets me "sneak past" locations to get into favorable places for deployment of my powers.

[quixoteprog]

I just wish there was something to make the PET fly faster. Even when using normal flight I find it necessary to regularly recast it rather than wait five minutes for it to catch up.

[roleki]

57 minutes ago, Smello said:

I normally don't really care about theme and build to min/max; but I recently built a fresh Gravity controller, and had to pay the 3-power-pick tax to take Flight to Afterburner, because who the hell ever heard of a superhero that literally manipulates gravity and yet couldn't fly? Normally I skip travel entirely and just ninja run everywhere, but just couldn't in this case.

 

Illusion control gets Superior Invis; Gravity control should get Superior Flight. The end cost and def boost of hover, the speed of fly (with suppression of course) and the cap boost of afterburner. I don't think this would be an OP change or anything, because it's really just saving you a couple power picks and some convenience, and illusion or fire are still IMO more powerful primaries in general.

 

I wanted to get input from this forum, specifically from people who've played a lot more Grav than I have. The power that seems most like it could be replaced to me is Dimension Shift, which also doesn't really fit the gravity manipulation theme anyway. Thoughts?

It's especially odd (thematically) that Gravity doesn't have an inherent flight/teleport power considering /Kin gets two travel powers, sorta.  

 

That said, if I'm going flight, I go for Afterburner just so's I can slot an extra LotG+Rech, so it's not like the picks are completely wasteful.

[Uun]

2 hours ago, quixoteprog said:

I just wish there was something to make the PET fly faster. Even when using normal flight I find it necessary to regularly recast it rather than wait five minutes for it to catch up.

You don't have to wait for it. Once you zone, it will appear next to you.

[quixoteprog]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

You don't have to wait for it. Once you zone, it will appear next to you.

I'm not talking about zoning. It does appear next to you if you switch zones. But if I am on a kill XX mission, in the RWZ for instance (any large zone really) I will be moving around rapidly using a travel power, looking for the specific type of mob I am hunting. Also, when using a travel power on a large mission map to search for that last group, it can take a long time for it to catch up. Especially if I have to go through several elevators on a multistory mission map.

 

It has to follow at its set speed, which is INCREDIBLY slow. So, like I said, I have to recast it a lot more often than other pets.

[Uun]

22 minutes ago, quixoteprog said:

I'm not talking about zoning. It does appear next to you if you switch zones. But if I am on a kill XX mission, in the RWZ for instance (any large zone really) I will be moving around rapidly using a travel power, looking for the specific type of mob I am hunting. Also, when using a travel power on a large mission map to search for that last group, it can take a long time for it to catch up. Especially if I have to go through several elevators on a multistory mission map.

 

It has to follow at its set speed, which is INCREDIBLY slow. So, like I said, I have to recast it a lot more often than other pets.

Recall Friend? Should only be needed on outdoor maps. If you go through an elevator, it will appear.

 

I don't think this problem is unique to Singularity. I'm constantly losing Fly Trap and Dark Servant. Back on live when I had a Grav/Kin and Plant/Kin I would speed boost them.

[quixoteprog]

58 minutes ago, Uun said:

Recall Friend? Should only be needed on outdoor maps. If you go through an elevator, it will appear.

 

I don't think this problem is unique to Singularity. I'm constantly losing Fly Trap and Dark Servant. Back on live when I had a Grav/Kin and Plant/Kin I would speed boost them.

"Recall Friend?" I'm not even sure what this is in reference to. I'm not complaining about getting to a mission. And as for it not being unique to Singy, just because other pets have similar problems doesn't mean it is not a problem with this one. Speed up their travel speeds too. I'm fine with that. But while all pets can have pathing problems Singularity seems much slower than Phantasm, which is what I have the most experience with.

[StratoNexus]

I think it is thematically a good idea, but I can't think of a power to remove. Even Dimension Shift is a solid pick now.

While my namesake no longer uses Propel or Lift, they are both good power choices and I would never want to see them removed. Crushing Field, like all AoE immobs, generally makes me weep and I also skip that, but lots of people rely on it.

Crush is a simple control that is pretty iconic and while skippable, lots of folks use it as well (including me).

The other 4 powers are all fantastic powers, although GDF is skippable due to its long base recharge (but I would never skip it).

 

So Crushing Filed out and Superior Fly in!

[Uun]

4 hours ago, quixoteprog said:

"Recall Friend?" I'm not even sure what this is in reference to. 

It's a pool power. You can teleport teammates and pets to your location. Has a range of 10,000 feet.

[Smello]

8 hours ago, StratoNexus said:

I think it is thematically a good idea, but I can't think of a power to remove. Even Dimension Shift is a solid pick now.

Curious about this. There's another thread active right now a couple posts down complaining about Dimension Shift and its general terribleness over here. How is it a solid pick?

[roleki]

13 hours ago, StratoNexus said:

I think it is thematically a good idea, but I can't think of a power to remove. Even Dimension Shift is a solid pick now.

While my namesake no longer uses Propel or Lift, they are both good power choices and I would never want to see them removed. Crushing Field, like all AoE immobs, generally makes me weep and I also skip that, but lots of people rely on it.

Crush is a simple control that is pretty iconic and while skippable, lots of folks use it as well (including me).

The other 4 powers are all fantastic powers, although GDF is skippable due to its long base recharge (but I would never skip it).

 

So Crushing Filed out and Superior Fly in!

Having read your comment, I still don't understand how you arrive at Crushing Field as the power to cut when even the revamped version of Dimension Shift is still the second or third worst power in the entire game, full stop.  

 

If the power percentages @ 50 thread is any indication, Dimension Shift is the least-commonly selected power in Gravity by a wide margin, appearing in only 37.33 percent of (ostensibly) final builds.  Crush, the second-least utilized power, comes in at 53.17 while every other power is at 82.17 or above.  Meanwhile, 91.5 percent of final builds found room for Crushing Field 

 

So even as the statistically least-utilized Gravity power, the fact that Dimension Shift generates enough angst to warrant threads decrying its usage on the forums should be a good indicator that it is THE prime candidate for replacement by a Travel-ish power.

[Erydanus]

Let me remind everyone that Gravity Control used to have an "Assemble the Team" type power called Fold Space in it and it was removed to give us Singularity; our former Tier 9, Wormhole, was then moved lower in the set.  I'd personally rather have had them keep Fold Space than Dimension Shift, but as it is now you can get the temp power so it doesn't really matter.

 

I actually don't agree with the fundamental premise of this post, though. The Gravity Control powerset (like all powersets) represents a core selection of abilities and it's up to the player to interpret the specifics; pool powers can be utility tools that are extra abilities for some players or specialized versions of the core powers for others. I love how Redlynne "wormholes herself" with Translocation! Now that's creative. I guarantee you that someone took this set because it was the best way to create the effect of something that didn't have an explicit set or even just did what they want better.  For instance I have definitely met players who emulate having the kind of telekinesis that can routinely bind people in place (as opposed to that 1-off push power in some mental/psi sets) with Gravity Control. Maybe someone else customized the power and is calling it magic binding spells. Whatever works for them! But you shouldn't take your personal vision for how the set works and assume everyone else shares it.

 

In direct counterpoint to TC's comment "because who the hell ever heard of a superhero that literally manipulates gravity and yet couldn't fly? " I give you Harry Leland (RIP) a member of the X-men's foes The Hellfire Club. He had a sorta-gravity power, offensive density increase. Basically, his powers had the effect of Crush and Crushing Field and if he hadn't died. maybe he would have done more things along the lines of the powerset. But no flying for him. While it's true many super heroes are able to expand their powers in utility ways to create travel powers and personal defense, not everyone does. Some people can only affect others with their powers, explicitly. It's just headcannon talking here.

 

In conclusion Dimension Shift still sucks, everyone I've played with who has it and used it thought they knew what they were doing but actually still screwed things up, and at least once got me killed. I appreciate that in a set with 6 great powers, 1 good (Grav Distortion Field - it's on par with every other AoE controller Hold, they all got nerfed together)  and 1 semi filler power (Crush, which tbh has its uses because it's a mag 4 immobilize and that means instant containment on a typical Boss) there's just 1 stinker that's easy to skip so I can get a superfluous bonus pool power, which in my case actually does happen to be Afterburner. 

 

 

 

 

 

[StratoNexus]

7 hours ago, roleki said:

Having read your comment, I still don't understand how you arrive at Crushing Field as the power to cut when even the revamped version of Dimension Shift is still the second or third worst power in the entire game, full stop.  

 

If the power percentages @ 50 thread is any indication, Dimension Shift is the least-commonly selected power in Gravity by a wide margin, appearing in only 37.33 percent of (ostensibly) final builds.  Crush, the second-least utilized power, comes in at 53.17 while every other power is at 82.17 or above.  Meanwhile, 91.5 percent of final builds found room for Crushing Field 

 

So even as the statistically least-utilized Gravity power, the fact that Dimension Shift generates enough angst to warrant threads decrying its usage on the forums should be a good indicator that it is THE prime candidate for replacement by a Travel-ish power.

Full disclosure, maybe my nostalgia is making me think more highly of Dimension Shift than I should be. I had respecced into it before the end of the game back in the day and while I know I rarely used it, I seem to remember that in the situations I did use it, I thought it worked really well. Even still, it was my level 49 power back then and I still have it as a 49 power now. This means that I have not actually played with it on Homecoming yet, my namesake is only 46 (leveling him slowly, enjoying the ride to 50). Maybe my tendency to play a lot with voice chat also helps, because I can easily communicate that the back left spawn in the cave is shifted, so my team knows not to waste powers there (or a melee character can run into it and start defeating/aggro control). I just recall saving a lot of grief with Rularuu in those big cave rooms or multi-spawn intersections with DS.

 

I agree with your statistical analysis of power usage, my last line about 'out with Crushing Field' was a joke, because I dislike AoE immobs since they cause many of the same issues people complain about DS causing and get used every spawn by people who use them and they can't be shutoff once misapplied. That is why earlier in my post I said lots of people rely on Crushing Field, but it makes me weep.

 

However, if they removed Dimension Shift and replaced it with Superior Fly, I would not complain. You could play Grav/Kin and have three of four travel powers.

[Redlynne]

4 hours ago, StratoNexus said:

You could play Warshade and have three of four travel powers.

Fixed that for you.

[Flashtoo]

19 hours ago, Erydanus said:

Let me remind everyone that Gravity Control used to have an "Assemble the Team" type power called Fold Space in it and it was removed to give us Singularity

 

 

JHFGDJGDJHSDFGH my gravity controller is a teleport specialist and I WISH I COULD HAVE THIS INSTEAD OF DIMENSION SHIFT

 

...oh well, moot point, don't think I could fit it into my build :<

[Sarkastik Observer]

Just take out telekinesis with and put this power in lol

[Uun]

2 hours ago, Sarkastik Observer said:

Just take out telekinesis with and put this power in lol

Telekinesis is in Mind, not Gravity. I'm not sure Superior Flight fits with Mind, but you could replace Telekinesis with just about anything and it would be an improvement.

[Coyote]

2 hours ago, Uun said:

Telekinesis is in Mind, not Gravity. I'm not sure Superior Flight fits with Mind, but you could replace Telekinesis with just about anything and it would be an improvement.

 

Should swap Telekinesis and Dimension Shift, piss off EVERYBODY!!! 😂

[VV]

I mean, Grav is already too OP to need any improvements

[Call Me Awesome]

On 12/3/2019 at 6:58 PM, StratoNexus said:

I think it is thematically a good idea, but I can't think of a power to remove. Even Dimension Shift is a solid pick now.

While my namesake no longer uses Propel or Lift, they are both good power choices and I would never want to see them removed. Crushing Field, like all AoE immobs, generally makes me weep and I also skip that, but lots of people rely on it.

Crush is a simple control that is pretty iconic and while skippable, lots of folks use it as well (including me).

The other 4 powers are all fantastic powers, although GDF is skippable due to its long base recharge (but I would never skip it).

 

So Crushing Filed out and Superior Fly in!

In what universe is D Shift a "good power"?  In my experience with it it's the single worst power (along with the similar Black Hole) in the entire game.  It's a favorite of chuckleheads who love to cause problems with the rest of the team and it greatly slows down the speed in clearing missions.  I think of it as a "team destroyer" power since one of two things will happen after the second or third time it's used... either the offender gets kicked or the team breaks up.

[Riverdusk]

If we are having a power swap meet I'll take crushing field on my illusion controller then please, I'd kill to have an aoe immobilize for illusion.  😁

[Jayj456]

Solo dimensional shift proc'd out is quit good.  If coupled with wormhole with kb to kd and Sing with kb to kd you can pull off some fun proc combos with sing locking things down. 

 

It is also a very good oh, sh** power for extra pulls or if teams get split.  If the team understands the power it is quite useful all the time,but it is a very hard learning curve for PUG groups.

 

Look at the Controller Proc Monster thread.