The problem with stalkers

[DougGraves]

I have been playing a stalker to solo redside.  I'd rather team, but it's redside.  I have not played stalkers much so I thought it would be nice to try it and I could get through missions faster to see the content.

 

The problem with stalkers is that their tactics and strategy are at odds.  Your strategy is to stealth through missions to do them quickly.  Your tactic is to wait to have stealth, wait for assassin's strike to recharge, and maybe wait for build up to recharge.  So your strategy is go fast and your tactic is to go slow.

 

I have found that running through a mission and stopping to fight when my assassin's strike has recharged works well for me.  I still get through quickly but I have some fighting so it is not all just running around.  And I don't stand around waiting for recharge.  Although when assassin's strike misses twice when trying to ambush the boss I do stand around awhile waiting.

 

So I have also found that having ST: TNG on netflix while I play helps.  When I need to wait I just watch the show.  Then 15 second later I can play some more.

 

I am enjoying the content on redside.  I know I played it a decade ago, but Radio is still fun.  There is just so much flavor to the contacts and the arcs.

[Snarky]

I generally use a Brute (done a few times live every story arc and mission redside) and currently on a Tanker

 

my strategy is not to stealth the missions so much as to fly through And ignore the damage. It is a little miserable on the kill alls where i wish for a scrapper

 

i have never run a Stalker. Maybe a day. But i have read a little on the subject and listened to the changes and opinions 

 

so in a tight group Boss Lt one or two minions you will not be able to kill the Boss with AS. So you kill the Lt and mebbe a minIon then go hide.   Then you come back and ruin the bosses say. That is what i hear

 

since the changes you Should be operating closer to Scrapper tactics in a very large spawn. Able to do sustained melee without having to go through running hiding stealthing swoop back in fight 20secs run hide etc. As i understand it the build was changed to have a different gear for ling extended combats. Since we do a lot if that

 

gl

Edited December 18, 2019 by Snarky

[DougGraves]

I just hit level 12.  I have TO's for damage but that's it.  So in a long fight END is my biggest problem.  I am playing without solo bosses, so I don't have a boss problem.  When I get to IO's I will take on bosses.

 

I normally play a dark/dark tanker so he has stealth (not as good as stalker) as well as being tough.  So he can run right through  missions as well.

 

With stalker at low level my biggest problem is missing.  With only a few attacks, a couple of misses really hurts.  The fast assassin's strike really allows stalker to work in a regular fight - so that was a great change.

[Snarky]

Have you done DFB for buffs?  You can shut off exp switch alignment with Null the Gull in pocket D. Run 4 DFB for buffs.  Switch back tirn exp on and it will be like you are running on SOs

[oxmox]

TBH stalkers are basically just scrappers with more crits. There's really no need to play at a slower pace if you don't want to.

 

You don't even have to wait to re-stealth between groups, though I suspect it probably saves time overall if they aren't right next to each other. Assassin's striking out of hide is useful to burst down one target quickly, but for overall speed it's actually better to break stealth with another attack (still crits!) and use AS mid fight to avoid the longer animation time.

 

Even if you do wait for hide and AS it's only a few seconds; I can't imagine you're actually watching Star Trek in 3 second intervals between mobs lol.

[Lines]

Get the Chance for Hide ATO ASAP and slot it in AS (Acronym hell, sorry). It will change the way you play your stalker. It's like going from 0 to 70.

 

Open with your strongest attack that isn't AS - it will crit. Get up to Assassins Focus if your attack chain is rapid enough (But don't sweat it too much if it isn't) and then use AS with a critical strike to quickly knock some poor sucker out. This will hide you for another crit. As you get recharge into your build, you'll be forcing crits every few seconds.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Lines

[Haijinx]

Just get the ATO procs at level 7 and shift into racecar mode.

 

Wait on Assassins strike?  Its too slooow.  It for using in combat!

 

Just play a super scrapper with 3x the build ups and 2x the crits

[Broken_Prey]

As others have said the ATOs procs are a game changer. It seems you're play stalkers how they use to be played, but with AS working out of hide changes the way they play. 

 

You no longer need to open with it, just your best ST attack. They play a lot like a scrapper now but with my crits and 3x build up. Have you ever had two builds up at the same time? I have tons of times on my stalker and it glorious. 

 

Have I used AS as my opening attack? Sure but it's usually for bosses that I find are a pain, like gunslinger. But other wise I play them like a scrapper. 

[Solarverse]

If your strat is to wait for AS and Hide, then you are playing a Stalker wrong. Pay attention to what others are telling you, a Stalker is a go go go class now, not a stop and wait class.

[Ael]

You totally don't have to play stalkers that way, especially not if it's boring. My husband and I regularly duo stalkers that play at max settings. No need to sneak, hide, AS, wait, hide, repeat.

[KelvinKole]

You need three things:

 

ATO chance to hide proc slotted in AS. 

 

ATO chance to recharge build up proc slotted anywhere. 

 

Chance for build up proc in build up. 

 

Enjoy wrecking everything. 

 

[Haijinx]

24 minutes ago, KelvinKole said:

You need three things:

 

ATO chance to hide proc slotted in AS. 

 

ATO chance to recharge build up proc slotted anywhere. 

 

Chance for build up proc in build up. 

 

Enjoy wrecking everything. 

 

Some have said the chance for build up global proc needs to be in a power that gets used periodically so the game doesn't forget you have it

 

Also, its nice to have it in something you have access to at low level for exemplar reasons.

 

So I like to put it in my T2 attack.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Haijinx

[DougGraves]

3 hours ago, Ael said:

You totally don't have to play stalkers that way, especially not if it's boring. My husband and I regularly duo stalkers that play at max settings. No need to sneak, hide, AS, wait, hide, repeat.

 

You play level 12 stalkers at +4/x8?  I am impressed

[Mr. Vee]

nearly as impressive as figuring out the problem with an AT at level 12 😛

ok i'll turn snark back off now

[Haijinx]

21 minutes ago, Veelectric Boogaloo said:

nearly as impressive as figuring out the problem with an AT at level 12 😛

ok i'll turn snark back off now

There is no problem though, Stalkers are awesome.   

 

So apply more Snark!

[siolfir]

19 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

There is no problem though, Stalkers are awesome.   

 

So apply more Snark!

Nonono, they need a(nother) buff. Really.

 

>.>

<.<

 

Titan Weapons for Stalkers?

 

I do think that some of the powersets need some looking at; why no -regen in Bio (the -res would be nice moved to the sleep aura, too!), why the nerfed stuns in Energy Melee, why no Fiery Embrance, why did every version of Ninjitsu that was ported get a +end power and KB protection but not for Stalkers... but the AT as a whole is in a pretty good place.

Edited December 19, 2019 by siolfir

[Haijinx]

Well yeah.  Also the old primaries having their pboes gutted is a problem.

 

But its a Stalker set problem, not a Stalker problem.  

 

Its easy to pick powersets that will do everything you want them to. 

[Ael]

2 hours ago, DougGraves said:

 

You play level 12 stalkers at +4/x8?  I am impressed

There's no need for the snark. You know I meant lvl 50. I'm just saying that stalkers don't all have to be played with a sneak everything mentality.

[nihilii]

I use all 3 recommended IOs (chance to hide in AS, chance to BU somewhere, gaussian BU in BU) and I haven't seen that big of an effect from them.

That is to say... Stalkers are perfectly viable as Scrappers now, even before these IOs.

You come in and you whack stuff, and when you see 3 stacks of Assassin's Focus you use AS for an extra big hitter. Done.

There's nothing wrong with sneaking around and waiting for AS if that strikes your fancy. It's just not necessary in this day and age (and probably detrimental to performance, in a min/max perspective).

[gamingglen]

8 hours ago, KelvinKole said:

You need three things:

 

ATO chance to hide proc slotted in AS. 

 

ATO chance to recharge build up proc slotted anywhere. 

 

Chance for build up proc in build up. 

 

Enjoy wrecking everything. 

 

You don't NEED any of these.

[Mr. Vee]

Also worth noting that the stalker inherent gives critical buffs depending on team size. So they're naturally not going to perform as well solo as they would on a team. It's nuts how often you crit on a full team with the chance to hide proc in AS.

[MetaVileTerror]

I played Stalkers on-and-off since City of Villains Beta.
In my opinion; they have never been more solo-friendly and fast-paced as they are now, and that's even before you bring the ATOs in to the mix.

I know it's not really helpful to say "you shoulda seen 'em fourteen years ago!" as a means to redress how your experience is with them today.  But I just felt compelled to do it.
 

I don't like the phrase "you're playing X wrong," but I will recommend that if you're finding the tactics and strategy at odds with each other . . . try switching them up!  See if there might be a different combination of tactic and strat which /does/ work for your enjoyment.  Get wild!  Get crazy!  

[Haijinx]

22 hours ago, gamingglen said:

You don't NEED any of these.

True.  But its way better if you have them 

[Solarverse]

30 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

True.  But its way better if you have them 

I agree, I don't NEED to breath either, I can always just chose to die, but life would probably be a better experience if I keep taking breaths. IE, Stalker play is just a better experience with all of those procs.  😉

[Haijinx]

34 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

I agree, I don't NEED to breath either, I can always just chose to die, but life would probably be a better experience if I keep taking breaths. IE, Stalker play is just a better experience with all of those procs.  😉

I wonder how the chance for hide affects defense.

 

I know I have more defense from the Hide power when "hidden" a lot more when AOE is concerned. 

 

I also use Stealth to hold a LOTG 

 

And I am in the hidden state when that fires, although still attacked.