Snipers see through stealth

[quixoteprog]

Looking at the Paragon Wiki I see that a sniper has a perception radius of 149 while Superior Invisibility has a stealth radius of 200. And yet (almost only on mission maps, but I may be miss-remembering) I regularly experience a sniper "seeing" me from quite a long way off. According to these numbers it would seem that having SI active means you should be able to walk up to melee range even on a sniper.

 

Am I misunderstanding something? Or, is there something in the Paragon Wiki article on stealth that is inaccurate?

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Stealth_and_Perception

[Hardship]

I've noticed that I don't get seen by snipers unless I'm interacting with a glowie or have recently attacked. The problem is that my dang sparkling Phantasm gets seen from a LONG ways out by the snipers -- and he is usually standing right next to me so I get the AOE blast of the sniper shot.

 

Next Nemesis mission when I encounter snipers, I'll do a little testing and verify, but I swear that I've been able to be right up on them and not be seen.

 

[srmalloy]

6 hours ago, Hardship said:

I've noticed that I don't get seen by snipers unless I'm interacting with a glowie or have recently attacked. The problem is that my dang sparkling Phantasm gets seen from a LONG ways out by the snipers -- and he is usually standing right next to me so I get the AOE blast of the sniper shot.

The buff pets you get from the P2W vendor are also not affected by any non-AoE (Shadow Fall, Steamy Mist, Group Invisibility, etc.) stealth powers, and can also pull aggro to you; this isn't as much of a problem if you have an actual invisibility power active, not just stealth, but it's still annoying.

[Solarverse]

7 hours ago, quixoteprog said:

Looking at the Paragon Wiki I see that a sniper has a perception radius of 149 while Superior Invisibility has a stealth radius of 200. And yet (almost only on mission maps, but I may be miss-remembering) I regularly experience a sniper "seeing" me from quite a long way off. According to these numbers it would seem that having SI active means you should be able to walk up to melee range even on a sniper.

 

Am I misunderstanding something? Or, is there something in the Paragon Wiki article on stealth that is inaccurate?

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Stealth_and_Perception

I don't think that information is accurate at all. I had this same issue with Cabal, seeing through everything but Superior Invis and higher, even though they do not have any bonus perception or any abilities that grant them perception. Tests were ran, videos were recorded and posted here on these forums. Everyone here were scratching their heads on it...it still remains a mystery. I am lead to believe that all available information we have concerning what NPCs have as far as Perception is either out of date or flat out incorrect.

[KnightSoul]

Aren't Cabal the ones with the aura debuff that counts as an attack and cancels your invis?

[Solarverse]

24 minutes ago, KnightSoul said:

Aren't Cabal the ones with the aura debuff that counts as an attack and cancels your invis?

It didn't cancel out Superior Invis nor did it cancel out Hide. Also, I took a look at them using Surveillance and there was nothing listed to indicate anything like this.

[KnightSoul]

Found it.  Its the Positioning effect to force the ranged AI that can bust stealth.   The fear is on it, not you so it won't show up in Surveillance.

[Solarverse]

3 hours ago, KnightSoul said:

Found it.  Its the Positioning effect to force the ranged AI that can bust stealth.   The fear is on it, not you so it won't show up in Surveillance.

Then its bugged. Otherwise it would also happen with Hide or Superioir Invisibility. 

[quixoteprog]

On 12/20/2019 at 11:38 AM, Hardship said:

I've noticed that I don't get seen by snipers unless I'm interacting with a glowie or have recently attacked. The problem is that my dang sparkling Phantasm gets seen from a LONG ways out by the snipers -- and he is usually standing right next to me so I get the AOE blast of the sniper shot.

 

Next Nemesis mission when I encounter snipers, I'll do a little testing and verify, but I swear that I've been able to be right up on them and not be seen.

 

I DO usually have Phanty out when running around. But he usually lags well behind me, and I could swear that I have come around a corner and had them aggro to me. It may well be it that when this happens he is the one drawing attention. I will need to get a Nemesis radio mission and do some testing without him out and see how close I can get.

Edited December 23, 2019 by quixoteprog

[Snarky]

Last night i was lining up on an end mission mob CoT  Posi   The group down below the cave in the water. Stealthed. Prob 40-60 range. Picking out my ruin mage lining up my snipe. Waiting for the team. Hoverblasting. Yeah. Good times

 

dead. Wait. What?  They saw right through my stealth and pasted me fast

[Hardship]

On 12/23/2019 at 6:18 AM, quixoteprog said:

I DO usually have Phanty out when running around. But he usually lags well behind me, and I could swear that I have come around a corner and had them aggro to me. It may well be it that when this happens he is the one drawing attention. I will need to get a Nemesis radio mission and do some testing without him out and see how close I can get.

I confirmed that without any pets out and no offensive auras running, I was able to get right up in Nemesis Sniper's face and not be seen with Superior Invis on. In fact I bumped into him several times and he never aggro'd to me.

[boggo2300]

7 hours ago, Hardship said:

I confirmed that without any pets out and no offensive auras running, I was able to get right up in Nemesis Sniper's face and not be seen with Superior Invis on. In fact I bumped into him several times and he never aggro'd to me.

Working exactly as intended

[quixoteprog]

On 12/24/2019 at 10:32 AM, Hardship said:

I confirmed that without any pets out and no offensive auras running, I was able to get right up in Nemesis Sniper's face and not be seen with Superior Invis on. In fact I bumped into him several times and he never aggro'd to me.

I guess that explains it then. Now, if only I can remember to dismiss Phantasm the next time I am on a mission with snipers. Are Cray and Nemesis the only ones that have them? I suppose I can look it up.

[Ulysses Dare]

On 12/25/2019 at 10:25 AM, quixoteprog said:

I guess that explains it then. Now, if only I can remember to dismiss Phantasm the next time I am on a mission with snipers. Are Cray and Nemesis the only ones that have them? I suppose I can look it up.

I'm pretty sure it's just Crey and Nemesis, yeah. And I rarely encounter Crey snipers on indoor maps. Those Nemesis $#@*&s on the other hand...

Edited December 26, 2019 by Ulysses Dare

[presto2112]

Rikti broke my stealth

[boggo2300]

23 minutes ago, presto2112 said:

Rikti broke my stealth

Drones see through stealth like snipers

[siolfir]

56 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

Drones see through stealth like snipers

Not true. Snipers have an extended range which Hide and Superior Invis compensates for, drones just ignore any level of stealth you have and shoot regardless. Once you're attacked, then the stealth suppresses and the rest of the spawn sees you.

[boggo2300]

1 minute ago, siolfir said:

Not true. Snipers have an extended range which Hide and Superior Invis compensates for, drones just ignore any level of stealth you have and shoot regardless. Once you're attacked, then the stealth suppresses and the rest of the spawn sees you.

ok, effectively the same for those who don't use invis...

[siolfir]

12 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

ok, effectively the same for those who don't use invis...

It used to be incredibly annoying for Stalkers, when you wanted to use Assassin's Strike from hidden status. It's a lot less annoying now, but since it affects an entire AT I thought it was worth the clarification, if only because of the test earlier in this thread where Superior Invis was used to walk right up to a sniper without being attacked - which would not work with a Rikti drone.

[boggo2300]

1 minute ago, siolfir said:

It used to be incredibly annoying for Stalkers, when you wanted to use Assassin's Strike from hidden status. It's a lot less annoying now, but since it affects an entire AT I thought it was worth the clarification, if only because of the test earlier in this thread where Superior Invis was used to walk right up to a sniper without being attacked - which would not work with a Rikti drone.

I don't have many stalkers, my main stealth experience nowdays is a AR/Dev blaster using the awesome stealth armour in dev!

[Trickshooter]

On 12/22/2019 at 8:07 AM, Solarverse said:

Then its bugged. Otherwise it would also happen with Hide or Superioir Invisibility. 

Superior Invisibility does not suppress from attacking or being attacked, only when clicking a glowie, so the Cabal's Positioning effect would not trigger stealth suppression for it like it would with other stealth powers.

 

Stalker's Hide is also slightly different from most stealth powers, as it will only suppress from an enemy "attack" if damage is done. 

[Solarverse]

Just now, Trickshooter said:

Superior Invisibility does not suppress from attacking or being attacked, only when clicking a glowie, so the Cabal's Positioning effect would not trigger stealth suppression for it like it would with other stealth powers.

 

Stalker's Hide is also slightly different from most stealth powers, as it will only suppress from an enemy "attack" if damage is done. 

Now that actually makes sense. I was actually completely unaware that a debuff that doesn't do damage would suppress most stealth powers due to the way the stealth power works, while other stealth powers work differently. This is a very good explanation of why SI and Hide are unaffected by Cabal while others are. I am amazed that you even learned this. I have been in this game since its infancy and never knew this. I assume you had to do a lot of research to figure this out? In any case, kudos to you, that is one hell of a discovery! +1 to you, Trickshooter and much respect!