Why so many chaotic Controllers?

[Hew]

On 12/31/2019 at 7:46 PM, Solarverse said:

will lock down mobs with an immobilize long before the Tank can even gather the mobs and stack them on him.

If it bugs you that much, get fold space. This problem will go away instantly.

[blaythesteuer]

is there a reason we don’t raise the aggro cap on tankers? seems like that would help a lot with these issues.

[lemming]

4 hours ago, Hew said:

If it bugs you that much, get fold space. This problem will go away instantly.

My latest controller has wormhole and fold space to get things to the tank

[Hew]

29 minutes ago, lemming said:

My latest controller has wormhole and fold space to get things to the tank

Same! Its my dom though. OMG useful. 

[VV]

On 12/31/2019 at 7:46 PM, Solarverse said:

So what gives? Why the change in play style over the years? I can't really accept the, "It's because of IO's" thing because honestly, it is still a slower method to wipe out mobs even with IOs. It just seems like over the years players forgot how to play, or there are a ton of new players that far outnumber the old ones...and one thing I have noticed, is that not many players will say anything. They will send me private tells complaining, but they won't actually say something to the players who are doing this.

Thing is, MANY people play sloppily these days. I've not noticed a particular preponderance of one AT or another. Bad controllers may seem more prevalent because 1) their powers are flashy and 2) they have a greater impact on combat than most ATs. I think it is mostly just the power creep that has reeeeaaaaally creeped up. Unlike "back in the day" when things could be pretty tough, these days you can have a team full of sloppy players and still do fine.

[Solarverse]

8 hours ago, Hew said:

If it bugs you that much, get fold space. This problem will go away instantly.

I wrote that LONG before fold space was around. Also, I don't play anymore, so then there is that.

[Solarverse]

10 minutes ago, VV said:

Thing is, MANY people play sloppily these days. I've not noticed a particular preponderance of one AT or another. Bad controllers may seem more prevalent because 1) their powers are flashy and 2) they have a greater impact on combat than most ATs. I think it is mostly just the power creep that has reeeeaaaaally creeped up. Unlike "back in the day" when things could be pretty tough, these days you can have a team full of sloppy players and still do fine.

Yeah, that was my final realization as well. Which is a big part of why I don't play anymore. There is no challenge left for me through the leveling process or even the end game. I might log on once in a blue moon to say hi to friends and what not, but it pretty much ends there. The only way I would play on a regular basis again is if somebody created a server that went back to Issue 1-5 and kept the rules and mechanics based on that...along with getting rid of IOs and making HO's the top dog enhancement again. I like the powersets in today's game, so it wouldn't bother me if the powersets remained, but...it's all a pipe dream anyway, such a server will never exist, soooo, there's that, lol.

I still love the game, I just don't really particularly care for what it has grown in to over the years.

[Tacheyon]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

Yeah, that was my final realization as well. Which is a big part of why I don't play anymore. There is no challenge left for me through the leveling process or even the end game. I might log on once in a blue moon to say hi to friends and what not, but it pretty much ends there. The only way I would play on a regular basis again is if somebody created a server that went back to Issue 1-5 and kept the rules and mechanics based on that...along with getting rid of IOs and making HO's the top dog enhancement again. I like the powersets in today's game, so it wouldn't bother me if the powersets remained, but...it's all a pipe dream anyway, such a server will never exist, soooo, there's that, lol.

I still love the game, I just don't really particularly care for what it has grown in to over the years.

 

I see Incarnates more then IO's to be a major issue.  Those powers have exacerbated what IO's started.  IO's were put in to provide the player with some ability to improve some (SOME) of their characters weakness.  Shore up defenses or improve recharge and things like this.  Yes after a lot of money and min-maxing you could make a hero/villain a SuperHero/Villain.

 

Incarnates just basically said lets turn those superheros in GODS.   Live shut down before the Dev team could realize the issue with it and produce content to combat that.  Either by balance changes or creating harder content.

 

Now that HC is basically easy mode in terms of leveling, farming and making money (although they did nerf/fix that last year) everyone can max out a hero pretty quick in both IO's and Incarnates.  Making 95% of the content soloable if they want.

 

The problem is that you make any changes to IO's or Incarnates now (specifically downward) and a lot of the people left will leave.  Turning already sparse servers into ghost towns.

[blaythesteuer]

this has really turned doom and gloom huh lol 

 

game is still fun. so don’t worry about the grandscheme. i have faith we will see more tough content in the future 

[VV]

5 hours ago, Solarverse said:

The only way I would play on a regular basis again is if somebody created a server that went back to Issue 1-5 and kept the rules and mechanics based on that...along with getting rid of IOs and making HO's the top dog enhancement again. I like the powersets in today's game, so it wouldn't bother me if the powersets remained, but...it's all a pipe dream anyway, such a server will never exist, soooo, there's that, lol.

Of course it can exist. You can build it. The code is readily available.

 

3 hours ago, Tacheyon said:

Incarnates just basically said lets turn those superheros in GODS.

They literally say that. It's weird to me that the original devs created the incarnate powers, but then did not put in much to challenge that level of play. There are the few iTrials that are a bit harder than most of the stuff, but there's not much of that, and even that isn't that hard.

 

5 hours ago, Solarverse said:

I still love the game, I just don't really particularly care for what it has grown in to over the years.

This is a funny statement. So many gamers complain when devs nerf something to manage power creep. I mean, there will be wailing with every rebalance. (Not saying you do this, specifically, just that most do.) Yet, this is what happens when devs do not manage power creep. If they never nerf anything, this is where we end up.

 

I do know that there is an SG somewhere on Homecoming that plays strictly by like I6 rules. Don't remember the exact issue, but they have a whole list of dos and don'ts. Could be an option for those who want the old school taste of it.

 

Another option is to run Ouro missions with heavy player debuffs and enemy buffs. 

[oedipus_tex]

I think the answer to the incarnate powers may lie in the third line of code in each of them: 

 

 

 

They were created to sell subscriptions. 😄

 

I for one would be happy to see them toned down, and in the case of Level Shifts, removed or reworked completely. Dark Astoria is actually a really cool zone if you encounter it without Level Shifts.  

 

I do think Level Shifts and full strength incarnate powers are still appropriate for iTrials though. 

[Ironbrow]

5 hours ago, Tacheyon said:

 

I see Incarnates more then IO's to be a major issue.  Those powers have exacerbated what IO's started.  IO's were put in to provide the player with some ability to improve some (SOME) of their characters weakness.  Shore up defenses or improve recharge and things like this.  Yes after a lot of money and min-maxing you could make a hero/villain a SuperHero/Villain.

 

Incarnates just basically said lets turn those superheros in GODS.   Live shut down before the Dev team could realize the issue with it and produce content to combat that.  Either by balance changes or creating harder content.

 

Now that HC is basically easy mode in terms of leveling, farming and making money (although they did nerf/fix that last year) everyone can max out a hero pretty quick in both IO's and Incarnates.  Making 95% of the content soloable if they want.

 

The problem is that you make any changes to IO's or Incarnates now (specifically downward) and a lot of the people left will leave.  Turning already sparse servers into ghost towns.

They don't need to change IOs or Incarnates for players to have an experience similar to that before their introduction.

Those wanting that can simply choose to not use set IOs or develop their Incarnates abilities. This could be done through a super group devoted to that style of play, allowing for easier team ups with those of like mind, or a static group built to play together and support each other as they had in the past. This would be essentially a voluntary rollback for those inclined that would in no way disturb those not, and the developers needn't do anything for it to happen.

[Ironbrow]

2 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

I think the answer to the incarnate powers may lie in the third line of code in each of them: 

 

 

 

They were created to sell subscriptions. 😄

 

I for one would be happy to see them toned down, and in the case of Level Shifts, removed or reworked completely. Dark Astoria is actually a really cool zone if you encounter it without Level Shifts.  

 

I do think Level Shifts and full strength incarnate powers are still appropriate for iTrials though. 

It was mentioned when the game adopted a f2p mode that the incarnate system was exclusive to subscribers.

That wasn't the original intent as when Incarnates were first introduced the game was subscription only, if I recall correctly.

[Hew]

5 hours ago, blaythesteuer said:

this has really turned doom and gloom huh lol 

 

game is still fun. so don’t worry about the grandscheme. i have faith we will see more tough content in the future 

There is a small, but persistent and vocal minority that proclaim Its Too Easy, and The Game Sucks Now. Just have to tune out that when you see it and carry on. 🙂

[Sovera]

Doom&gloom. Getting bored with a game is normal. I've been playing it for two years now and I'm there myself. Done all the things I wanted to do and the RP community isn't GW2 (at its heyday) so I'm out of things to do.

 

Nothing abnormal in this.

 

[Pzn]

5 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

I think the answer to the incarnate powers may lie in the third line of code in each of them: 

 

 

 

They were created to sell subscriptions. 😄

 

I for one would be happy to see them toned down, and in the case of Level Shifts, removed or reworked completely. Dark Astoria is actually a really cool zone if you encounter it without Level Shifts.  

 

I do think Level Shifts and full strength incarnate powers are still appropriate for iTrials though. 

The entire game was created to sell subscriptions.  You've cracked the code.

[VV]

True, this is just common game boredom that often sets in for some people after a game has been out for a couple years. People find whatever to complain about, but really they are just ready to move on to the next sparkly. SAST syndrome.

[Col. Kernel]

On 12/31/2019 at 7:18 PM, DougGraves said:

At higher levels tankers are uncommon.  Brutes rule high levels because of IOs and they do not herd.  So players do not seem to understand herding even at low levels when it is useful. 

 

Oddly enough, I do try to herd on my Brute.  And I was noticing the same issue the OP was talking about.

 

I suppose that one solution is to IO a Tanker to tank, play at +4x8, then when Eager Beaver the Controller locks them down before they are gathered up, simply move on to the next mob and gather them up.  I figure that when the troller has the undivided attention of the spawn, and doesn't like it, they might listen if advice were offered.

 

The New Kids(TM) will then whine to said Tanker and open the conversation about play styles.  I mean at that point it's their idea to have that conversation, they might actually listen to advice.

[oedipus_tex]

On 5/11/2021 at 1:17 PM, VV said:

True, this is just common game boredom that often sets in for some people after a game has been out for a couple years. People find whatever to complain about, but really they are just ready to move on to the next sparkly. SAST syndrome.

 

 

IMO some of the criticism is justified, because we spend so much time pouring over our builds and thinking about the context of the game the build will be used in. 

 

This game's own progression system will lead every player to a nuke power with 90 recharge. On a team of 8, that's a nuke recharging every 90 / 8 = 11.25 seconds. That's on top of any actual nukes available to the team. Even subpar slotting can get those nukes to half recharge, which is 79 seconds. That averages to a nuke firing less than every 8 seconds. They're also hitting enemies who are only +3 or (in the case of Dark Astoria) +1 to you. The only thing balancing this, to the degree this is balanced, is the possibility of a team member not having the power.

 

I don't blame people for thinking that's unsustainable and unfun. I think it is unsustainable and unfun.

 

IMO that's totally fair to observe for the same reason we can observe the soft cap or other game params. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by oedipus_tex

[MDLittle]

I'll echo the sentiment...if the game's 'too easy' for you, then why are you travelling in a group at all? Crank it to +4/x8 with Elite/AV options enabled and go solo a few missions for a right heaping dose of humility. 🙂

 

Regarding the OP, having played a few controllers, caging mobs before they cluster has been a standard practice for me when solo or in a group with no tanker/scrapper/brute/sentinel as it keeps the mob slightly dispersed limiting their capacity to engage in melee (which can mean a death sentence for the controller, assuming they're not already shot to pieces (ah, the lowbie life of a controller).

 

Now, at later levels I tend to hold off on caging until there's a sizeable cluster to use it on...or I use it on another mob that's close by if the main body's having issues with the current mob to keep their ability to engage limited to range. It may seem like I'm spamming senseless, but in truth - I'm trying to keep the tanker/scrapper/brute/sentinel alive.

Edited August 23, 2021 by MDLittle
continuation of thought process

[SomeGuy]

On 1/23/2020 at 3:34 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

This. This is how I've seen the game since coming back. It just doesn't matter what AT I'm playing any more, they can afk and the team will be just fine because we're all OPAF now.

Seriously. I don't care if you're active or not. Sticking with the group or playing City of Solo 80s Action Hero. Real life happens and you have to AFK. Or not. Maybe you're just alt-tabbed on PHub. This isn't some sperg lord MMO where EVERYONE has to be present. Just have fun. Play a min-max character or 6 slot brawl. Whatever. Just have fun.

[presto2112]

On 5/10/2021 at 11:18 AM, blaythesteuer said:

is there a reason we don’t raise the aggro cap on tankers? seems like that would help a lot with these issues.

 

best quote in this whole thread. I don’t know anyone in favor of it. This was implemented pre-AE to counter herding xp farm mission or street sweeping? Doesn’t seem to be any value in keeping the taunt-limit now

[Doomguide2005]

12 hours ago, presto2112 said:

 

best quote in this whole thread. I don’t know anyone in favor of it. This was implemented pre-AE to counter herding xp farm mission or street sweeping? Doesn’t seem to be any value in keeping the taunt-limit now

      No a gazillion times no.  Taunt aka Aggro should definitely not be unlimited for reasons spelled out in numerous other threads on the topic.  Tweaked values I'm personally against as well but at least the merits or lack of are something that could be discussed (and have been).  

    

[arcane]

On 12/31/2019 at 6:46 PM, Solarverse said:

So what gives? Why the change in play style over the years? I can't really accept the, "It's because of IO's" thing because honestly, it is still a slower method to wipe out mobs even with IOs.

The game has basically become far too easy and speedy for such tactics to be necessary. I can’t speak for lowbie content, but, in the endgame, if immobilizes are slowing you down... it’s not the immobilize’s fault. Every level 50 team should be shredding 54 mobs like they’re nothing, even if one particular player isn’t able to hit every baddie with his AoE’s.

 

If someone complains about controls on a level 50 team, best thing to do is look at all the enemy bodies that just instantaneously fell dead and shrug.

[arcane]

15 hours ago, presto2112 said:

 

best quote in this whole thread. I don’t know anyone in favor of it. This was implemented pre-AE to counter herding xp farm mission or street sweeping? Doesn’t seem to be any value in keeping the taunt-limit now

Lots of people here have voiced opposition and made compelling arguments explaining why it would make the game easier. Hard no vote.