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oedipus_tex

Fade and Farsight Should Not Benefit from External Buffs

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6 minutes ago, sacredlunatic said:

Ok, you do get it, fine.

But you are wrong that it's not hurting anything, and it has been explained several times why.  So yes, let's let it go.

Everytime I log in the code isnt melting because pb and farsight exists.

 

Nobody cares, we just play, gimp all the cool stuff people will leave.

 

So no, its not hurting anything.

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11 minutes ago, sacredlunatic said:

It is making other people with Defense powers irrelevant, for one thing.  That's just a small example.

No its really not.

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There is no point in continuing this conversation, you don't believe in the concept of game balance.

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Just now, sacredlunatic said:

There is no point in continuing this conversation, you don't believe in the concept of game balance.

Again believing and not caring because its a fabricated crisis are 2 different things.

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Just now, Infinitum said:

Again believing and not caring because its a fabricated crisis are 2 different things.

I see, you believe that a thing called game balance exists, you just don't see the importance.  That's a pretty minor distinction you're making, but you do you.

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47 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Everytime I log in the code isnt melting because pb and farsight exists.

 

Nobody cares, we just play, gimp all the cool stuff people will leave.

 

So no, its not hurting anything.

But Farsight without PB isn't gimped. It's still an effective defense buff when slotted. 

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The PB+Farsight issue is a Defender thing. Corruptors are just as inclined to go Dark Mastery instead of Soul for the better Soul Drain, and softcapping with IO's and Clarion/Barrier instead.

 

So you have extremely durable Defenders? Sure, but they can't fully utilize their durability since their damage is low. Granted there are some proc monster outliers, but then you're not going sonic for the debuffs which makes your offensive contribution in AV fights pretty mediocre (when compared to some other support sets).

 

I do think Time is the strongest overall on Defender, but I've yet to be convinced it needs a nerf since it has its weakness as I've stated above. Keep in mind my two favorite characters are a Fire/Time/Dark corr and an Emp/Sonic/Soul def which both use Clarion/PB for defense buffs, so while I may be biased this comes from experience of using the interaction a lot.

 

If I were to change anything, it'd be the Fade bug and buffing underperforming sets like FF/TA/Traps/Sonic/Poison. And if you really wanna nerf Time, consider making its weakness (offense in av fights) more apparent instead of nerfing the highlight of the set many people enjoy.

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2 hours ago, sacredlunatic said:

However this is handled, under No circumstances should this bonus to Resistance be ENHANCEABLE.  Time should definitely NOT be able to slot the +Def special IOs without taking an epic Res armor or Tough.

Yeah I should have mentioned that it would be unenhanceable. 

 

  

38 minutes ago, Auroxis said:

The PB+Farsight issue is a Defender thing. Corruptors are just as inclined to go Dark Mastery instead of Soul for the better Soul Drain, and softcapping with IO's and Clarion/Barrier instead.

I assume that a fix for PB+Farsight would also make clarion radial+farsight not work.

 

 

Edited by Darkir

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Well yes @Darkir, but Clarion for corrs is +7.5% so builds can adjust with Barrier.

 

For Defenders it would hurt more, and like I said I don't think it's the way to go.

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Farsight with Power Boost is definitely very powerful, and if we were all to agree that something should be done about it, I agree that flagging it to ignore outside buffs like Power Boost is the simplest way to fix that. Second best option would be to make Power Boost's buff values follow enhancement scheduling, so Schedule B effects (like Defense) would be 60% of Schedule A effects, though you might upset way more people that way.

 

But... I'm not sure I agree that something needs to be done about it.

 

Easily 80-90% of powersets in any given category (melee, ranged, support, control, etc.) perform well enough on their own, and even better with IOs, to get through the most difficult content we can face. And at this point, even more difficult content is unlikely. There's also the fact that, more than most other MMOs, a lot of CoX alt creation is concept driven.

 

Those two things together make it really unlikely that Time being a powerful set will ever upset The Balance™ enough to drive sets like Force Field extinct. There will always be people who love those sets and play them.

 

That's not to say a set like Force Field couldn't use some love, because it can. And that's probably where, besides adding new content, we should focus our efforts: bringing the underperformers up.

 

Now, you could say, "well, if all sets can work and people will play what they love, why worry about the underperformers either?"

 

And that's a good point. The difference is just that, if you're going to do anything, there would potentially be a lot less anger from buffing the underperformers than nerfing the overperformers, honestly.

 

I'm not saying Force Field or Trick Arrow or Poison need to be as powerful as Time or Rad or Dark can be, but we can at least work to shrink the performance delta between the "lower tier" sets and the "middle-to-top tier" sets.

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Buff Trick Arrows! | Buff Poison! | Powerset Suggestions: Circus Performers | Old Powerset Suggestions:  Probability Distortion | Magnetism | Hyper-Intellect

Some day, the prophecy will be fulfilled; Trick Arrows will be buffed and I will finally be allowed to die.

 

Why doesn't Power Boost work on Cold Shields!?

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I appreciate the desire to avoid excessive nerfs, but Time would be a top set without the ability to Power Boost Farsight. Time without Farsight provides more personal Defense to the caster than all sets except Traps. It is also the only set besides Controller Dark Affinity (see: Fade) that provides both strong Defense and a self heal. The only other set that provides both is Dark Miasma on Defenders, which gets a measely (in comparison)+5 Defense from Shadowfall and a heal that can miss.   

 

Also remember that Power Boost boosts both Farsight's Defense and ToHit. The power's base ToHit is identical to Tactics. When you Power Boost it, you get double Tactics. Then you can just ignore Accuracy except for a few global bonuses fro sets and a Kismet, and slot only procs. 

Edited by oedipus_tex
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On 1/21/2020 at 5:44 PM, oedipus_tex said:

I appreciate the desire to avoid excessive nerfs, but Time would be a top set without the ability to Power Boost Farsight. Time without Farsight provides more personal Defense to the caster than all sets except Traps. It is also the only set besides Controller Dark Affinity (see: Fade) that provides both strong Defense and a self heal. The only other set that provides both is Dark Miasma on Defenders, which gets a measely (in comparison)+5 Defense from Shadowfall and a heal that can miss.   

 

Also remember that Power Boost boosts both Farsight's Defense and ToHit. The power's base ToHit is identical to Tactics. When you Power Boost it, you get double Tactics. Then you can just ignore Accuracy except for a few global bonuses fro sets and a Kismet, and slot only procs. 

I'm late to this party.  Just off the top of my head the Bio, TW, Darkness Affinity, and Time sets, Sustain buffs for Blasters, Nukes not having End Crashes, plus most of the Incarnate powers, and a bunch of the later issue IO set bonuses, procs and even some temp powers all never should have been made if the designers were true to or cared about game balance.   I'd probably be happier they'd kept the game balance.   If these were recently released sets or changes, I'd be open to discussing nerfs to balance them.  But that all goes back to Live.   Taking that away now just adds a 2nd wrong, that will ruin the game for people who built characters around those many clearly out of balance elements.  Power creep at this point is a lost cause, like trying to get your virginity back.   If we want to balance the game I think the only fair way at his point is to buff underperforming sets and then let the difficulty dial go to 11 instead of just +4/+8 for those who want more of a challenge.  

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3 hours ago, aethereal said:

Time will be fine without Power Boost, sure.

 

Will Power Boost be fine without Time?  What is the role we see for PB?

 

Power Boost was in the game for about 8 years before Time showed up. It's a good power and will always be fine. I'd even keep it on my Dark/Time and Ice/Time Controllers because of all the other stuff it boosts. The fact that it boosts Farsight to the point it doubles the value of most Defense armor sets is where it just goes off the rails.

Edited by oedipus_tex

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