Fade and Farsight Should Not Benefit from External Buffs

[Leogunner]

1 hour ago, oedipus_tex said:

Farsight's impact on the rest of the team is not a concern for me. It's a PBAoE and realistically hitting the whole team with it all of the time isn't feasible. In that sense it's less reliable than Force Field's shield buffs. It's the personal armor numbers that make Farsight + Power Boost inappropriate.

 

If the fix were super complex I'd understand arguments about spending time fixing other sets. This one is front and center and obvious. There is a nearly identical power in the game that already has the fix applied.

 

You should not be able to soft cap to all positions and elements with just 4 powers. Y'all. Stop it. If an armor set was released with those values we'd never let stop talking about it. We haven't even discussed finished builds. You can soft cap with 4 powers. Either numbers don't matter at all or that is broken. The reason it is broken is obvious and staring us in the face, so please flip the switch and lets get back to balancing more challenging stuff. 🙂

There are ways to soft cap with just 1 power.

 

Elude/Retsu, Overload, etc.

 

...of course, those powers can't be perma and they also have crashes.

[oedipus_tex]

13 minutes ago, Seroster01 said:

It's obvious you're talking about me, and you're right I don't care very much about balancing the sets against each other, unless one set is such an outlier that it trivializes every other set of the same type.

 

 

I hope I don't sound like I'm talking down to you. Tone is hard to read on the forums. I assume all of us on this forum are posting in good faith because we love this game and want to see the best for it, even if our philosophies of what is "best" differ. So whatever differences in opinion we may have I hope the conversation remains friendly.

 

This is a serious question. Do you not agree that a power set where you can start your build with just 4 powers in Mids and be soft capped to all positions and elements trivializes other sets? If we were talking about just Ranged defense or something I could see maybe not flagging it as an outlier. But ALL positions and elements? 

 

My mention above of a being able to cap to Ranged defense with 4 powers was rhetorical. There is no such set. The closest any set can come to Time + Power Boost is Traps. Traps can get very good defense. With work, it can even soft cap to most positions. But it requires at least some investment in the build, because after Force Field Generator the next highest Defense power I can access is going to be Weave, with just +5%. If Power Boosted Farsight is ok they should just let me summon 2 Force Field Generators because other than the 2% difference in Defense its the same thing.

Edited January 4, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Leogunner]

40 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

Was true when I wrote it then for that other thread ... and it's just as true now.

 

DON'T FEED THE CONCERN TROLL(S).

Then why are you here? lol

[siolfir]

16 minutes ago, Seroster01 said:

It's obvious you're talking about me, and you're right I don't care very much about balancing the sets against each other, unless one set is such an outlier that it trivializes every other set of the same type.

 

As such, if the HC devs cared that much about game balance then I'd like to think that TW wouldn't be left as it is; insurmountably better than any other melee set in the game. It has a parry-style power for some free defense, copious CC via multiple Knockdowns, it's own -res power in addition to multiple -def powers allowing it to slot the Achilles Heel -res. All of this, while doing so much DPS that, despite it being a smashing damage set, its performance is still several standard deviations better than any other melee set. 

 

Yet people are in this thread freaking out about 5-12% extra defense from a combination of powers that won't be available until 41+...

Nitpick: technically you could use Power Build Up at 35 instead of Power Boost at 41; it's on the same base recharge as Farsight instead of half, though, so you would likely need to invest slots to it. That would give you both powers at 30 when exemping (36 for PB). 

 

As for TW and game balance, that was something the HC devs inherited - it was live at shutdown in a set that you had to pay to have, even for subscribers, and balance fixes to it would be far more involved than flipping a couple of boolean attributes on two powers. The ease of this suggestion is most of why I support it, and it really is a bug fix for Fade.

Edited January 4, 2020 by siolfir

[Wavicle]

17 minutes ago, Seroster01 said:

It's obvious you're talking about me, and you're right I don't care very much about balancing the sets against each other, unless one set is such an outlier that it trivializes every other set of the same type.

 

As such, if the HC devs cared that much about game balance then I'd like to think that TW wouldn't be left as it is; insurmountably better than any other melee set in the game. It has a parry-style power for some free defense, copious CC via multiple Knockdowns, it's own -res power in addition to multiple -def powers allowing it to slot the Achilles Heel -res. All of this, while doing so much DPS that, despite it being a smashing damage set, its performance is still several standard deviations better than any other melee set. 

 

Yet people are in this thread freaking out about 5-12% extra defense from a combination of powers that won't be available until 41+...

I'm not talking about JUST you.

But if it's any consolation, I agree TW should also be nerfed.

[Seroster01]

28 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

Was true when I wrote it then for that other thread ... and it's just as true now.

 

DON'T FEED THE CONCERN TROLL(S).

I'm not real sure who this is in response to. I would assume this is talking about me, based on my earlier post about concerns over a lot of nerfs getting rolled out... but the definition of concern troll you link doesn't really sound like what I'm saying. I'm not attempting to show false support for the topic while "raising concerns". I legitimately disagree with the changes. I don't think this change would cause any substantial changes to the survivability of TM characters, which is what everyone is up in arms about. Meanwhile,  the To-hit portion that I actually care about retaining isn't getting any real discussion despite being much harder to come by overall.

 

I suppose I've gotten into the weeds again, since none of this is terribly important to the actual topic of discussion, and at this point I think I've explained my stance on that as well as I can...

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

I hope I don't sound like I'm talking down to you. Tone is hard to read on the forums. I assume all of us on this forum are posting in good faith because we love this game and want to see the best for it, even if our philosophies of what is "best" differ. So whatever differences in opinion we may have I hope the conversation remains friendly.

 

This is a serious question. Do you not agree that a power set where you can start your build with just 4 powers in Mids and be soft capped to all positions and elements trivializes other sets? If we were talking about just Ranged defense or something I could see maybe not flagging it as an outlier. But ALL positions and elements? 

 

My mention above of a being able to cap to Ranged defense with 4 powers was rhetorical. There is no such set. The closest any set can come to Time + Power Boost is Traps. Traps can get very good defense. With work, it can even soft cap to most positions. But it requires at least some investment in the build, because after Force Field Generator the next highest Defense power I can access is going to be Weave, with just +5%. If Power Boosted Farsight is ok they should just let me summon 2 Force Field Generators because other than the 2% difference in Defense its the same thing.

Having played time, storm, rad, thermal, and kinetics.

 

No I dont think it trivializes them.

 

I haven't played any other sets, but I know people that have, empathy, nature, poison, arrow, sonic.

 

And, none of them seem trivialized by the presence of a time Troller on the team either.

 

If anything soft capped blasters chain nuking the map is what makes just about anything seem trivial - holds and buffs who needs those?

[Leogunner]

7 minutes ago, Seroster01 said:

I'm not real sure who this is in response to. I would assume this is talking about me, based on my earlier post about concerns over a lot of nerfs getting rolled out... but the definition of concern troll you link doesn't really sound like what I'm saying. I'm not attempting to show false support for the topic while "raising concerns". I legitimately disagree with the changes. I don't think this change would cause any substantial changes to the survivability of TM characters, which is what everyone is up in arms about. Meanwhile,  the To-hit portion that I actually care about retaining isn't getting any real discussion despite being much harder to come by overall.

 

I suppose I've gotten into the weeds again, since none of this is terribly important to the actual topic of discussion, and at this point I think I've explained my stance on that as well as I can...

Did I make you paranoid or something?

 

The quoted is likely directed at the individual who brought up this subject (the OP) and those that agree with him.

 

Also, if the +ToHit portion suffers because it can't be boosted by Power Boost, you could appeal to give a slight increase in the base value.

[Wavicle]

I would like to address one other claim made here.  The idea that Defense buffs don't matter in the endgame.

What is the endgame?  Is it farming +4/x8 a mission cherry picked with damage you resist?

I think endgame is Incarnate content.

Well, most people are NOT softcapped in Incarnate content.  So it seems to me team defense buffs are still plenty valuable.

[siolfir]

21 minutes ago, sacredlunatic said:

I would like to address one other claim made here.  The idea that Defense buffs don't matter in the endgame.

What is the endgame?  Is it farming +4/x8 a mission cherry picked with damage you resist?

I think endgame is Incarnate content.

Well, most people are NOT softcapped in Incarnate content.  So it seems to me team defense buffs are still plenty valuable.

From my experience in iTrials there are typically enough people running defense buffs that affect others (typically Maneuvers) that anyone who built for non-Incarnate softcap will still get there, not even taking into account how many people take Barrier.

 

In DA I'm not fighting +4/x8 because Incarnate shifts kick in and the mobs are only +1.

Edited January 4, 2020 by siolfir

[Wavicle]

10 minutes ago, siolfir said:

From my experience in iTrials there are typically enough people running defense buffs that affect others (typically Maneuvers) that anyone who built for non-Incarnate softcap will still get there, not even taking into account how many people take Barrier.

 

In DA I'm not fighting +4/x8 because Incarnate shifts kick in and the mobs are only +1.

It's not just maneuvers, it's all the other various team defense buffs, including bubbles, ice shields, fade, farsight, and everything else.  They are useful specifically Because they get everyone to the Incarnate soft cap. Saying they are not useful because people are soft capped is bizarre. They are Why people are soft capped.

[Infinitum]

17 minutes ago, siolfir said:

From my experience in iTrials there are typically enough people running defense buffs that affect others (typically Maneuvers) that anyone who built for non-Incarnate softcap will still get there, not even taking into account how many people take Barrier.

 

In DA I'm not fighting +4/x8 because Incarnate shifts kick in and the mobs are only +1.

Incarnate content can be bipolar...

 

Easy easy easy Haaaaaaarrrrrrd easy haaaaaard.

[Infinitum]

4 minutes ago, sacredlunatic said:

It's not just maneuvers, it's all the other various team defense buffs, including bubbles, ice shields, fade, farsight, and everything else.  They are useful specifically Because they get everyone to the Incarnate soft cap. Saying they are not useful because people are soft capped is bizarre. They are Why people are soft capped.

They are soft capped before the buffs actually.

[oedipus_tex]

RE: Incarnate cap. Challenge accepted.

 

Here's a template with base 53.3 Defense to all positions when Power Boosted Farsight is added to the mix. Find 6 Defense to each remaining position and you're capped in incarnate content.  This is with no sets added yet, only the 2 fairly standard +3 Defense IOs mostly builds for any character will use.

 

Notice that even without Power Boost Farsight is incredibly powerful. Defenders get fantastic Defense modifiers so their powers add up quickly. The issue is the character shouldn't be allowed to have access to Farsight's +12.4%  twice. Its worth way more Defense than any other option available in the game. If Farsight was the only good power in Time I could look away, but look at this:

 

 

 

 

Here's the portion of that coming from just Power Boost + Farsight if you ignored all other Defense powers and just took the +Defense IOs.

 

 

 

So how soon can Cold Domination and Force Field start self-casting their shields? 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[siolfir]

38 minutes ago, sacredlunatic said:

It's not just maneuvers, it's all the other various team defense buffs, including bubbles, ice shields, fade, farsight, and everything else.  They are useful specifically Because they get everyone to the Incarnate soft cap. Saying they are not useful because people are soft capped is bizarre. They are Why people are soft capped.

No, those powers get people who didn't build for the non-Incarnate softcap up to the Incarnate softcap. I specifically mentioned Maneuvers because enough people take it just to have an extra spot for LotG that you'll probably get the 14% defense you need (or less based on the specific build you're running) from that alone.

[Seroster01]

2 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

I hope I don't sound like I'm talking down to you. Tone is hard to read on the forums. I assume all of us on this forum are posting in good faith because we love this game and want to see the best for it, even if our philosophies of what is "best" differ. So whatever differences in opinion we may have I hope the conversation remains friendly.

 

This is a serious question. Do you not agree that a power set where you can start your build with just 4 powers in Mids and be soft capped to all positions and elements trivializes other sets? If we were talking about just Ranged defense or something I could see maybe not flagging it as an outlier. But ALL positions and elements? 

 

My mention above of a being able to cap to Ranged defense with 4 powers was rhetorical. There is no such set. The closest any set can come to Time + Power Boost is Traps. Traps can get very good defense. With work, it can even soft cap to most positions. But it requires at least some investment in the build, because after Force Field Generator the next highest Defense power I can access is going to be Weave, with just +5%. If Power Boosted Farsight is ok they should just let me summon 2 Force Field Generators because other than the 2% difference in Defense its the same thing.

I'll break this into 2 parts that I felt like I'd already covered: 

 

1.) No, I don't think TM having extraneous defense trivializes other sets, because defense was trivialized long before it existed. The only set that could even make the claim is FF, and it's the whole reason FF needs some affection. Even then, the defense bonus to the caster is the thing that people are up in arms about, which only directly compares to Dispersion Bubble, & it isn't even the most useful part of Dispersion! If the argument right now is that FS+PB is so much more powerful than DB (which I don't really agree with anyway) that it somehow trivializes the whole FF set, that really seems to me like were really focusing on the wrong part of this equation. With 2 power picks that are available by level 10 (double Maneuvers), my SoA gives out a 21.4% bonus to all defenses, both to himself & anyone within 60 yds. This value is identical to the value of a FF defender with DB & Maneuvers, but DP only has a 25 ft radius, so it's actually worse. And all he has to do for that is remain conscious! He also brings a lot of other buffs & Debuffs to the party, along with significantly higher damage than is possible for an FF defender. Does that trivialize FF as a set? Or perhaps the value of FF has been severely harmed by the changes in game systems over time, & there's more to the value of FF than the numerical value of defense that DP gives to the caster?

 

2.) I think I brought something about this up earlier, but to have the effect you're describing you would specifically have to be a Defender, a class that can already reach the soft cap with relative ease because it gets the best buff #s in the game from the pool sets that every defense-focused build takes anyway. Yet this change would affect every AT that has this combo as an option. If I fully fill out my MM's build at level 50, PB+FS will give ~20.5% defense instead of the ~14.4% it gives when enhanced. That's nice, but I don't  think I'd call it exceptional, and even without PB affecting FS she ends up at 48-ish% total S/L defense instead of 54%. Meanwhile, a MM trying to do a mission set to +4 needs basically every scrap of to-hit it can acquire.

 

It just feels to me like the boost in defense that everyone'a so focused on is largely inconsequential, can't be acquired until the character that can do it it could usually accomplish something that is very close to the same effect, & have that same effect be be less likely to be lost while exemplared.

 

P.S.: Dispersion bubble also isn't available till lvl 18.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Seroster01
Typos.

[Infinitum]

16 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

RE: Incarnate cap. Challenge accepted.

 

Here's a template with base 53.3 Defense to all positions when Power Boosted Farsight is added to the mix. Find 6 Defense to each remaining position and you're capped in incarnate content.  This is with no sets added yet, only the 2 fairly standard +3 Defense IOs mostly builds for any character will use.

 

Notice that even without Power Boost Farsight is incredibly powerful. Defenders get fantastic Defense modifiers so their powers add up quickly. The issue is the character shouldn't be allowed to have access to Farsight's +12.4%  twice. Its worth way more Defense than any other option available in the game. If Farsight was the only good power in Time I could look away, but look at this:

 

 

 

 

Here's the portion of that coming from just Power Boost + Farsight if you ignored all other Defense powers and just took the +Defense IOs.

 

 

 

So how soon can Cold Domination and Force Field start self-casting their shields? 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously though, none of that is game breaking.

 

Its just a means to an end that most people shoot for in any number of ways on nearly any min max build on any AT.

 

It's not even the most efficient way for time to get there.

 

I use stealth and a lot of set bonuses and never rely on power boost.  My favorite time power is chronoshift.  If anything makes it OP its that.  That's the tide turner from my experience.

[Infinitum]

7 minutes ago, Seroster01 said:

I'll break this into 2 parts that I felt like I'd already covered: 

 

1.) No, I don't think TM having extraneous defense trivializes other sets, because defense was trivialized long before it existed. The only set that could even make the claim is FF, and it's the whole reason FF needs some affection. Even then, the defense bonus to the caster is the thing that people are up in arms about, which only directly compares to Dispersion Bubble, & it isn't even the most useful part of Dispersion! If the argument right now is that FS+PB is so much more powerful than DP (which I don't really agree with anyway) that it somehow trivializes the whole FF set, that really seems to me like were really focusing on the wrong part of this equation. With 2 power picks that are available by level 10 (double Maneuvers), my SoA gives out a 21.4% bonus to all defenses, both to himself & anyone within 60 yds. This value is identical to the value of a FF defender with DP & Maneuvers, but DP only  has a 25 ft radius, so it's actually worse. And all he has to do for that is remain conscious! He also brings a lot of other buffs & Debuffs to the party, along with significantly higher damage than is possible for an FF defender. Does that trivialize FF as a set? Or perhaps the value of FF has been severely harmed by the changes in game systems over time, & there's more to the value of FF than the numerical value of defense that DP gives to the caster?

 

2.) I think I brought something about this up earlier, but to have the effect you're describing you would specifically have to be a Defender, a class that can already reach the soft cap with relative ease because it gets the best buff #s in the game from the pool sets that every defense-focused build takes anyway. Yet this change would affect every AT that has this combo as an option. If I fully fill out my MM's build at level 50, PB+FS will give ~20.5% defense instead of the ~14.4% it gives when enhanced. That's nice, but I don't  think I'd call it exceptional, and even without PB affecting FS she ends up at 48-ish% total S/L defense instead of 54%. Meanwhile, a MM trying to do a mission set to +4 needs basically every scrap of to-hit it can acquire.

 

It just feels to me like the boost in defense that everyone'a so focused on is largely inconsequential, can't be acquired until the character that can do it it could usually accomplish something that is very close to the same effect, & have that same effect be be less likely to be lost while exemplared. 

All good points but I doubt it will make anyone see the light.

[oedipus_tex]

4 minutes ago, Seroster01 said:

1.) No, I don't think TM having extraneous defense trivializes other sets, because defense was trivialized long before it existed.

 

 

If that's true then Force Field and Cold Domination should not be blocked from self casting their shields, and Empathy should be allowed to self cast Fortitude. Cold Dom would come in below Power Boosted Farsight and Empathy would about tie it (but gain+30% Damage).

 

But that's a not a game philosophy I can agree with. The Defender class is not supposed to be a Sentinel that also happens to have team-wide buffs. This was a balance that was carefully maintained. There is a set for self buffs  called 'Armor' and it follows certain restrictions in order to keep the game fun and interesting. 

 

I happen to think the buffs should be treated with the same care and serious debate that armor and melee/blast sets get. I really hope we are not in the mindset now that nothing can be debated because everything is trivial.

[Infinitum]

3 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

If that's true then Force Field and Cold Domination should not be blocked from self casting their shields, and Empathy should be allowed to self cast Fortitude. Cold Dom would come in below Power Boosted Farsight and Empathy would about tie it (but gain+30% Damage).

 

But that's a not a game philosophy I can agree with. The Defender class is not supposed to be a Sentinel that also happens to have team-wide buffs. This was a balance that was carefully maintained. There is a set for self buffs  called 'Armor' and it follows certain restrictions in order to keep the game fun and interesting. 

 

I happen to think the buffs should be treated with the same care and serious debate that armor and melee/blast sets get. I really hope we are not in the mindset now that nothing can be debated because everything is trivial.

Define fun and interesting.

 

Also quantify that.

 

Bet your answer isn't the only one out there.

 

What you are describing is a rarity that I've not seen in game once as being a problem..

 

So why does it bother you? is my question.

 

Also see corruptors for team buffs and blaster like damage.

 

Buffers make things easier and more fun but like anything isn't required.

 

Damage output is the target of the game these days.  This whole thread is a nitpick at something that's not really breaking or affecting how the game flows or what people look for when they build.

[oedipus_tex]

9 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Define fun and interesting.

 

Also quantify that.

 

Bet your answer isn't the only one out there.

 

What you are describing is a rarity that I've not seen in game once as being a problem..

 

So why does it bother you? is my question.

 

Also see corruptors for team buffs and blaster like damage.

 

Buffers make things easier and more fun but like anything isn't required.

 

Damage output is the target of the game these days.  This whole thread is a nitpick at something that's not really breaking or affecting how the game flows or what people look for when they build.

 

 

If Time Manipulation was an armor set availlable to Sentinels, Scrappers, Stalkers, etc and they also had access to Power Boost, and that power was giving +24% Defense to all positions for 120 seconds perma, there would be no discussion. The power would be fixed and we would move on.

 

The only reason this is even a debate is because the power appears in a buff set. The rules for buff sets are slightly more nebulous. But, with 2 exceptions added very late in the game, they followed the basic  rule that powers do not grant above a certain threshold of Defense to the caster or else they turn into Tank Mages. The rule can be broken only for powers that do not affect caster (bubbles, ice shields, thermal shields, and so on.) 

 

Those 2 exceptions are Farsight (being discussed) and Fade (known to be bugged). Fade has to be fixed anyway. Fix Farsight along with it. 

 

Quote

Seriously though, none of that is game breaking.

 

I just want to marvel that that was the response to a build showing how, with 2 IOs and 7 powers (could have done it in 6 honestly but I wanted to explore the S/L Resistance portion) you can come within 6 points of incarnate cap to all positions. Is there a Sentinel armor set that is also doing this? This is not a sarcastic question. I'm just wondering if "soft capped to everything before we even get to the other 8 powers in the set" is a standard for an Armor set I've not explored yet.

Edited January 4, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Infinitum]

4 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

If Time Manipulation was an armor set availlable to Sentinels, Scrappers, Stalkers, etc and they also had access to Power Boost, and that power was giving +24% Defense to all positions for 120 seconds perma, there would be no discussion. The power would be fixed and we would move on.

 

The only reason this is even a debate is because the power appears in a buff set. The rules for buff sets are slightly more nebulous. But, with 2 exceptions added very late in the game, they followed the basic  rule that powers do not grant above a certain threshold of Defense to the caster or else they turn into Tank Mages. The rule can be broken only for powers that do not affect caster (bubbles, ice shields, thermal shields, and so on.) 

 

Those 2 exceptions are Farsight (being discussed) and Fade (known to be bugged). Fade has to be fixed anyway. Fix Farsight along with it. 

 

 

I just want to marvel that that was the response to a build showing how, with 2 IOs and 7 powers (could have done it in 6 honestly but I wanted to explore the S/L Resistance portion) you can come within 6 points of incarnate cap to all positions. Is there a Sentinel armor set that is also doing this? This is not a sarcastic question. I'm just wondering if "soft capped to everything before we even get on to the 8 powers in the set"is a standard for an Armor set I've not explored yet.

It's not an armor set.  It's a clickie that's not insta godmode on the squishiest AT in the game aside from MM.

 

Still though.  So what?  How will that break anything?

 

There are many avenues to do that on any AT.   Thats just one avenue and not a permanent or efficient one IMO .  none of that affects how end game teams face content.  It doesn't affect early game because it's not avail.

 

It sure has gotten in your head as an issue though.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Infinitum

[oedipus_tex]

9 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Still though.  So what?  How will that break anything?

 

There are many avenues to do that on any AT.   Thats just one avenue and not a permanent or efficient one IMO .

 

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand your question. Which many avenues do you mean? There are only two avenues for double stacking a +12.5% Defense power (~+9% on Controllers), Fade and Farsight.  The vast majority of Defense powers eligible for Power Boost are either:

• Toggles
• Only affect players other than the caster

 

Fade has to be fixed anyway. 

 

Farsight naturally should follow it.  

Edited January 4, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand your question. Which many avenues do you mean? There are only two avenues for double stacking a +12.5% Defense power (~+9% on Controllers), Fade and Farsight.  The vast majority of Defense powers eligible for Power Boost are either:

• Toggles
• Only affect players other than the caster

 

Fade has to be fixed anyway. 

 

Farsight naturally should follow it.  

Many avenues to soft cap.

[Seroster01]

15 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

I just want to marvel that that was the response to a build showing how, with 2 IOs and 7 powers (could have done it in 6 honestly but I wanted to explore the S/L Resistance portion) you can come within 6 points of incarnate cap to all positions. Is there a Sentinel armor set that is also doing this? This is not a sarcastic question. I'm just wondering if "soft capped to everything before we even get to the other 8 powers in the set" is a standard for an Armor set I've not explored yet.

I've had bad luck with these forums today, just lost most of a post on this subject & it's time for dinner... maybe later. 😑