How unkillable can you get?

[JCMcBoo]

Stone/Ice is the most survivable tank I have ever played sans expensive IO builds.

[Call Me Awesome]

2 hours ago, Infinitum said:

probably could, but i can step up on a curb on the invul build  LOL

And that is the reason Stone's small durability advantage over an optimal IO Invuln isn't worth having.

[Haijinx]

5 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

And that is the reason Stone's small durability advantage over an optimal IO Invuln isn't worth having.

True.  But the thread subject was how unkillable can you get?  

 

Since Stone only has the one hole durability wise.  

 

======

 

For most content on most teams even Invul is overkill. 

 

My SR tanker only died twice, both times exemplared. (Stupid people and the Posi 1 steps) 

 

WP is basically unkillable even on minimal IOs once you get onto teams running multiple  maneuvers. 

 

Even Fire does great with a couple buffs.  On my SS/Fire brute I was annoyed I never died because my best attack was ROTP.

 

I imagine that is part of why BIO is so popular.  Its tough enough, and can be adjusted on the fly based on team configuration. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Haijinx]

Oh and don't forget ICE

 

Its extremely tough, since it isn't facing anywhere near the same amount of incoming damage.

[Hyperstrike]

3 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Oh and don't forget ICE

 

Its extremely tough, since it isn't facing anywhere near the same amount of incoming damage.

But Ice is nearly All-Defense and almost no Resist.

So you have the problem of egg-shelling.
You appear really strong until something can regularly bypass your Defenses.
Then, you're frenching the linoleum.

[Call Me Awesome]

4 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

But Ice is nearly All-Defense and almost no Resist.

So you have the problem of egg-shelling.
You appear really strong until something can regularly bypass your Defenses.
Then, you're frenching the linoleum.

Been there, done that although so far my mid-30's Ice/Spine tank's doing fine tanking.  Admittedly I've had a full IO build since around level 22 and soft capped by the late 20's.

[Hyperstrike]

46 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

Been there, done that although so far my mid-30's Ice/Spine tank's doing fine tanking.  Admittedly I've had a full IO build since around level 22 and soft capped by the late 20's.

Repeat after me.

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😉

[Haijinx]

5 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

But Ice is nearly All-Defense and almost no Resist.

So you have the problem of egg-shelling.
You appear really strong until something can regularly bypass your Defenses.
Then, you're frenching the linoleum.

All the -recharge makes this far less of a problem then on most def armors.

[siolfir]

15 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Repeat after me.

Ci
me

ror

ans

😉

They're really not a problem. Both my Widow and Ice/Time Corruptor have tanked ITFs for teams.

[SeraphimKensai]

There's a reason everyone here compared whatever IO'd toon to a SO'd Stone Armor tank.

God forbid, a Stone Tank fully IO'd themselves.

[Haijinx]

4 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

There's a reason everyone here compared whatever IO'd toon to a SO'd Stone Armor tank.

God forbid, a Stone Tank fully IO'd themselves.

For survabilty.  That would be wild.

 

Usually they IO for recharge and movement.  

[Menelruin]

So is there a secondary that's generally considered optimal for pure survivability?  /dark for life steal? /ice for slowdown?  /kinetic for damage debuff?  /staff for the forms?

[Infinitum]

3 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

So is there a secondary that's generally considered optimal for pure survivability?  /dark for life steal? /ice for slowdown?  /kinetic for damage debuff?  /staff for the forms?

If you do any Primary like Shield, Rad, Invul, SR, Elec, Stone, etc correctly, the secondary wont and shouldnt matter honestly.

[Bopper]

4 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

So is there a secondary that's generally considered optimal for pure survivability?  /dark for life steal? /ice for slowdown?  /kinetic for damage debuff?  /staff for the forms?

No general one, but dark is very popular for the heal and -tohit debuffs. A resistance based set would pair well with dark melee, while a defense based set could probably prefer kinetic or ice.

[Menelruin]

8 minutes ago, Bopper said:

No general one, but dark is very popular for the heal and -tohit debuffs. A resistance based set would pair well with dark melee, while a defense based set could probably prefer kinetic or ice.

I forget, does Stone do Resistance, Defense, or both?

[Bopper]

49 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

I forget, does Stone do Resistance, Defense, or both?

It does Resistance, Defense, DDR, Heal, Max HP and Regeneration. Only thing lacking is Absorb

Edited January 10, 2020 by Bopper

[Call Me Awesome]

1 minute ago, Menelruin said:

I forget, does Stone do Resistance, Defense, or both?

Stone Armor is almost all defense until you get to Granite Armor (which is exclusive of all other armors but Rooted and the passive Stone Skin).  Granite is 20% def to all but Psi and 50% res to all but Psi.  With no other powers but Granite and only SO's slotted you wind up with 31% defense and 79% resistance.  Add the passive Stone Skin T1 power and your S/L caps out.  That's before you figure in any set bonuses or pool powers at all, only Granite and Stone Skin.

 

It's ridiculously easy to soft cap Granite's defenses and not much harder to cap out the other (non Psi) resistances.  Unfortunately you pay for that with extremely limited mobility, reduced damage output and reduced recharge.   I played the set twice on Live, both times pre-IO, and it's absolutely, no question the most durable tank you can play.  However, my Invuln is not far behind in durability and suffers NONE of the penalties.

28 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

So is there a secondary that's generally considered optimal for pure survivability?  /dark for life steal? /ice for slowdown?  /kinetic for damage debuff?  /staff for the forms?

There's secondaries that will add to your survivability.  Broadsword/Katana/Titan Weapons for Parry (or it's analogue), Stone Melee (and a few others) for knockdowns, stuns and holds and I'm sure there's a few others that don't come to mind right now.  Your secondary's importance in that regard does drop off with the tougher primaries so feel free to pick what you want.  My Shield tanker on Live was Shield/Fire, my Stone tanker was likewise /Fire; both for the same reason - extra damage and not needing more durability.

[KaizenSoze]

I can think of one TF where stone would be at a massive disadvantage, Apex.

 

Limited mobility during Battle Maiden's AOE phase is death. 

 

Otherwise, the most durable in PvE.

[Mikewho]

1 hour ago, KaizenSoze said:

I can think of one TF where stone would be at a massive disadvantage, Apex.

 

Limited mobility during Battle Maiden's AOE phase is death. 

 

Otherwise, the most durable in PvE.

This is a good point. There’s a whole bunch of top level content where mobility matters for survivability: underground trial, MoM trial, TPN trial, etc. for the toughest content in the game, there are several sets I’d rate above stone for survivability for this reason.

[Haijinx]

I think you can build enough +SPD and with good teleport binds you can move around some.  Slots in Swift, etc.  Maybe enough to avoid some of those glowie spots of death. 

 

Just the curb thing.  Can never beat the curb thing.  

 

Also maximizing your build for Granite means you'd need an alternate build for any level 27 or below exemplaring.   Or soloing.  No point in Soloing Granite.  Unless you wanted to solo Giant Monsters .. extremely .. slowly.. 

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

I think you can build enough +SPD and with good teleport binds you can move around some.  Slots in Swift, etc.  Maybe enough to avoid some of those glowie spots of death. 

 

Just the curb thing.  Can never beat the curb thing.  

 

Also maximizing your build for Granite means you'd need an alternate build for any level 27 or below exemplaring.   Or soloing.  No point in Soloing Granite.  Unless you wanted to solo Giant Monsters .. extremely .. slowly.. 

Check out my Un-Granite thread in Tankers.
 

 

[Xandyr]

My main is Bio/Rad. I've built him over and over, and each time he gets better.  I have soft capped or near soft capped  typed defense. And the regen is crazy. I've hit between 175-207 hp/sec while in a mob. Couple that with very high HP, high defense numbers, and well...it's hard to die. The numbers go up even more if I switch to Defensive mode.

[Call Me Awesome]

On 1/10/2020 at 2:52 AM, Haijinx said:

I think you can build enough +SPD and with good teleport binds you can move around some.  Slots in Swift, etc.  Maybe enough to avoid some of those glowie spots of death. 

 

Just the curb thing.  Can never beat the curb thing.  

 

Also maximizing your build for Granite means you'd need an alternate build for any level 27 or below exemplaring.   Or soloing.  No point in Soloing Granite.  Unless you wanted to solo Giant Monsters .. extremely .. slowly.. 

Actually back on Live there were experiments done and it IS possible to get a Granite tanker to Super Jump... I believe it took 6-7 Kinetics hitting Inertial Reduction.

[WillParkinson]

On 1/12/2020 at 9:00 PM, Xandyr said:

My main is Bio/Rad. I've built him over and over, and each time he gets better.  I have soft capped or near soft capped  typed defense. And the regen is crazy. I've hit between 175-207 hp/sec while in a mob. Couple that with very high HP, high defense numbers, and well...it's hard to die. The numbers go up even more if I switch to Defensive mode.

Can you share this build?

[Xandyr]

12 hours ago, WillParkinson said:

Can you share this build?

If I can get on tonight I will. In Offensive,  I have 2999 HP, and over 3k in defensive. I've been debating on switching up some Incarnate powers to see how he'll do.