I Love Knockback

[Troo]

I do love knockback. It's pretty fun and has an element of control in it that is different. With proper application it can dominate an encounter or even a conversation.

I am okay with knockdown but to be honest I prefer stun to knockdown.

 

There's a learning curve with knockback just as other powers. It's just not subtle. Few really see Enflame being applied and it being the cause of a target start running around,

 

There are tips and tricks available.

 

There are also plenty of threads on the topic like:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Troo

[Outrider_01]

Knockback is fine, there is a IO that fixes it. 

 

Other thread is people complaining they don't want to compromise builds, suck it up buttercups.  Bandaid fix for a "QoL Personal" issue that people throw shit around or whining someone else is doing it. 

 

Instead of breaking a mechanic, global bandaid slots on brawl/rest/fitness, or a accolade click (cause passive would break inherent knockback in the weaker powers like KU/KD) simply buff the weak IO set of KB that no one really uses.  Add damage, set bonus that reduces KB, another converter or proc ect...how many plus rech/acc/mezz rez/resist/def/regen/rec do we need?

[MTeague]

Both Knockback and Knockdown are fine.  Both have thier uses, neither one should be removed.

 

Soloing, Knockback, properly used, can be *excellent* damage mitigation,  Not only do they have to stand back up again, but you sent them sailing out of melee.  They might take a pot shot at you with a pistol, but they're not going to be able to WHOMP you with a sledgehammer while they're 30 yards away.  Not to mention sometimes you can deliberately send someone off a roof or over a ledge to buy yourself LOTS of time to deal with his buddies. 

 

Grouping, most teams would vastly prefer Knockdown. and, grouping, so would I.  a) you usually aren't in a situation where you have ot use pathing and geography with knockBACK to save your butt in groups. KnockDOWN is fine for short term disruption of incoming attacks without causing grief for melee or for AoE attacks.  And man, you should see a Stormy using Gale slotted with 1 Acc and 1 KB-to-KD and decent recharge.  That can stop a TON of incoming damage if you cycle it, and it's just hilarious seeing like 14 Freakshow all flop to the ground, all at once.

[boggo2300]

Me I love knockback, rarely have characters of my own that do it, but I love teaming with KB heavy characters, the controlled mayhem is what makes the game feel like superheroes to me

[oedipus_tex]

I think Energy Blast (exclusively) should be able to turn its knockback on or off at will. They are masters of their energy blasts. Dual Pistols already has this mechanic. I'd like to be able to decide shot to shot if I want knockback. Then I could slot the attacks for knockback distance but only apply it when I want it. Brilliant.

 

 

[Haijinx]

That's nice

[honoroit]

 

Problem with knock back gravitates around the break of the user 'battle trance' .

 

By this I mean the flow a user enters once adjusted to what tends to become steamroller, or known outcome. 

 

It is as with intangibility. You have caused a disruption of flow.

 

It is jarring to the mind, and players have conditioned each other and selves to react as if wounded by this interjection. 

 

Adapt. 

 

In skilled hands kb is exceptional control; some mob sets are weak.

 

Ever seen a council wolfy? I'll bet you have...

 

They're hard to immob, but flail like trash in the wind on kb. 

 

It is unreasonable to subject other player to slotting loss to account for your difficulty with near real time mental shift. 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

i dont mind KB on single target power on Aoes its another story also on some powersets its unpredictable. 

[Lines]

I'm hoping that mechanical alterations to how things can be knocked back along different vectors might create some more interest and strategies to good use of knockback. I also think that AI changes could make knockback relevant, along with other CC effects. I don't believe that changing knockback counts as a 'QoL' fix. It's a definite change to gameplay.

 

I don't love it, but I also don't believe that knockback is a gameplay problem. Combat isn't meant to feel convenient and we shouldn't be edging closer and closer to being so cushioned by player-favouring mechanics that we are able to totally zone out while playing the game. With the KB>KD enhancements, it's as solved as I'd like it to be.

 

We should feel powerful in a game about superheroes, but powerful doesn't count for much when the circumstances are artificially gimped in our favour.

[Galaxy Brain]

1 hour ago, Lines said:

We should feel powerful in a game about superheroes, but powerful doesn't count for much when the circumstances are artificially gimped in our favour.

This is my thoughts on KB currently. Knocking people back doesn't feel powerful compared to constantly knocking them on their ass, oddly enough. Chaining knockdowns keeps enemies controlled and they then get wrecked by other powers. Knocking enemies back feels cool for like a second, but then they just get up like nothing happened.

[Infinitum]

9 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

This is my thoughts on KB currently. Knocking people back doesn't feel powerful compared to constantly knocking them on their ass, oddly enough. Chaining knockdowns keeps enemies controlled and they then get wrecked by other powers. Knocking enemies back feels cool for like a second, but then they just get up like nothing happened.

It's hard to reconcile that part of it for me too.. 

 

Eliminating KB with an enh is cool and I exploit that myself but how does it make sense for an explosive power or kick to the chest to not kb something?

 

I think about that for a split second then continue chain repelling mobs with a set of sudden accel slotted and giggle like a little girl as they keep getting knocked down.

 

Or Crain kick someone and they bounce up then hit the ground at my feet as if they hit an invisible wall.

 

I dunno. Thematically kb makes you feel powerful for a split second until they all get up 100% strength and start mowing you down.

 

At the end of the day I chalk it up to this is a game and I won.... Yay me.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Infinitum

[Galaxy Brain]

44 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Thematically kb makes you feel powerful for a split second until they all get up 100% strength and start mowing you down.

Pretty much why I want to buff KB to where it has extra impact or something to make it a tactical choice to keep vs Knockdown.

[GM Miss]

From a players perspective -  I don't like kb as it slows everyone down. I play tanks most of the time and people knocking stuff back from me just makes every single mob take longer. There are players that know how to use it, but for groups - I say leave the kb to solo characters.

[Infinitum]

48 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Pretty much why I want to buff KB to where it has extra impact or something to make it a tactical choice to keep vs Knockdown.

Yeah but how would you do that without making every power that has KB OP?

 

It's almost a can of worms too big to open because whole sets would potentially need to be rebalance across various attributes.

 

Unless I'm oblivious to the obvious - which is entirely possible.  lol

[Bossk_Hogg]

4 hours ago, honoroit said:

 

Problem with knock back gravitates around the break of the user 'battle trance' .

 

By this I mean the flow a user enters once adjusted to what tends to become steamroller, or known outcome. 

 

It is as with intangibility. You have caused a disruption of flow.

 

It is jarring to the mind, and players have conditioned each other and selves to react as if wounded by this interjection. 

 

Adapt. 

It's not a question of adapting, but being irritated frequently in one's leisure time. Do you want to sit next to a random person that smells like cat piss? I mean, can't you adapt and hold your nose? That's KB for many people. That constant, mild irritant that detracts from their fun. So lets stop trying to gaslight people. You arent a master player for dealing with KB, you simply have different tastes. 

[Bossk_Hogg]

28 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Yeah but how would you do that without making every power that has KB OP?

 

It's almost a can of worms too big to open because whole sets would potentially need to be rebalance across various attributes.

 

Unless I'm oblivious to the obvious - which is entirely possible.  lol

I don't think adding extra smashing damage corresponding to the KB magnitude would make them OP. It would also give a stronger reason to slot KB increase, and those that used the KB reducers would miss out on that extra damage. You'd have to DOUBLE the damage for explosive blast before it equals the DPA of Fireball.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Bossk_Hogg

[Lusid]

There is another topic that discusses KD and KB, the suggestion i had was increase AoE ranges. With this game's format there isn't a big advantage to having increased radius on your targeted aoe, pbaoe or cones. This is especially true since there is already a target limit. The range could be 100 feet and it won't let you hit any more targets in most situations. Not suggesting they be increased that far but if the AoE attacks had the ranges of incarnate skills, or about half since vorpal as example is 120' long, knockbacks would be far less offensive.

[Lines]

1 hour ago, Lusid said:

There is another topic that discusses KD and KB, the suggestion i had was increase AoE ranges. With this game's format there isn't a big advantage to having increased radius on your targeted aoe, pbaoe or cones. This is especially true since there is already a target limit. The range could be 100 feet and it won't let you hit any more targets in most situations. Not suggesting they be increased that far but if the AoE attacks had the ranges of incarnate skills, or about half since vorpal as example is 120' long, knockbacks would be far less offensive.

I'm sure you're making a good point, but I'm struggling to understand the logic here. Can you give an example of when increased aoe range on knockbacks is a benefit?

[Rathulfr]

4 minutes ago, Lines said:

I'm sure you're making a good point, but I'm struggling to understand the logic here. Can you give an example of when increased aoe range on knockbacks is a benefit?

I think the poster meant that increasing the AoE range on all AoE attacks in general, so that targets can't be knocked back out of AoE range.  For example, if someone lays down an anchored debuff AoE with increased range, then setting off a Nova next to the anchor wouldn't blow everyone out of range of the debuff.

[Lines]

Ahh, gotcha.

[honoroit]

9 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

It's not a question of adapting, but being irritated frequently in one's leisure time. Do you want to sit next to a random person that smells like cat piss? I mean, can't you adapt and hold your nose? That's KB for many people. That constant, mild irritant that detracts from their fun. So lets stop trying to gaslight people. You arent a master player for dealing with KB, you simply have different tastes. 

 

What about insta aoe immob for containment?

 

...or the guy that runs away when I AM healing to settle some unknown score THEY have with THEMselves... elsewhere, somewhere, round a corner and very out of range. 

 

Or that brute who won't stop taunting when I Am THE Tank, and on, ad infinitum. So long are your thought gives will to writhe. 

 

Perhaps devs put knock back into the game to irritate the playerbase? A critical overlooking which neglects group play mechanics! That seems unlikely.

 

Seems instead they invited finesse, and options. 

 

But. I hate that! that mind controller used mass hypnosis like an interrupt, I'm aoeing ffs! It's wasted, they're stupid. Idiotic. God I wish they could be ai companions. 

 

...I despise telekinesis, any form of repel...Woe betide you if YOU decide I need repulsion bomb! I'll riot,ill quit, if I can't convince people to boot YOU. You knocked crap right out of MY burn patch. Do you get how important that is?! 

 

If it is such displeasure to mix with those of paragon, perhaps a more lonely path for you. 

 

Do stay safe. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by honoroit
Imperatives in punctuation!

[MTeague]

Actually, I'd like to see Teleknesis changed from a Toggle Hold to a Toggle Immob + To-Hit Debuff, in exchange for having the Repel effect removed.

I do not see this happening anytime soon.  But I think it would be a valid interpreation of the power.... the Mind Controller is holding you mostly immobile with his mind, you can kind of attack but it's hard to be accurate when you're struggling to move so much... and would make it something that would have a chance to be useful in FAR more situations.

[honoroit]

TK, even with only 5 picked up, is why I, personally, abandon every non mind Dom. 

 

It's that good. Mag 6 auto hit pulsing hold, and the repel provides effective mob mitigate. 

 

Even if you only run it 5s, you've changed the field. 

 

I feel it's perfect, but thats for another thread? 

Edited January 7, 2020 by honoroit
Spells

[MTeague]

Fair enough.

[Haijinx]

If knockback was like the old FF comics where The Thing gets smashed through a wall, then through an entire supermarket, then the back wall, and gets up pulling the banana peel off his head, then it would be cool.

 

 

Otherwise, not so much.