Star Trek

[ShardWarrior]

2 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I guess its the whole should science fiction show a brighter future, should it reflect a darker one and how should the mirror it holds up to our world reflect?

At least to me, Star Trek should reflect the brighter future that Roddenberry wanted to portray.

[Haijinx]

9 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

At least to me, Star Trek should reflect the brighter future that Roddenberry wanted to portray.

Over on Rocketpunk Manifesto occasionally there was some interest in what a hard science fiction deconstruction of Trek might look like.   

 

But others suggested it had been deconstructed at least thematically by Trek itself. 

 

I really never really thought it had, but perhaps that is what has been going on.   By centimeters.  

 

 

 

[VileTerror]

Blah.  Spoilers, blah blah blah blah, spoilers, blah blah.

I get the impression that it's a double-whammy of acknowledging that the Federation is comprised of SO MANY different cultures at this point that even the best intentions can be lost in the face of the quagmire that is trying to appeal to the best of very different points of view.  The Federation isn't corrupt or even inept; they're doing the best they can in a situation that was "no win" from the on-set.  
And I'm fairly sure that it's not the Federation which is the "bad guy" in this series.  I mean, it's only episode two so far, but it's pretty clear that the "internal" threat came from an external source.

[Haijinx]

I suppose I see the appeal of the shining beacon Federation.  And the Orville probably follows that model as well within its own structure.

 

Personally I have never seen that as particularly realistic and prefer the "The reasons for the end of the world were pretty much as you'd expect - purely human ones." FO2 School of thought.   

 

But I can see how fans of that aspect of Trek might feel a bit put off by the more Grimdark stuff that's seeped in over time.

[Heraclea]

The Orville achieves greatness by posing a simple question.  What would life in the Trek utopia be like for messy schlubs like ourselves?  If you're going to deconstruct Trek, this is how you do it. 

[Heraclea]

16 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

Basically, Roddenberry held a firm position on his utopian vision for the show, even to the dismay of many writers who thought the restrictions on certain kinds of conflict (such as among the crew or intra-Federation) pre-empted certain staples and tropes of television drama.  But once Roddenberry was gone, that position eroded pretty quickly under Berman, and eventually disappeared altogether by the time of STV.

 

This is what I would call a 'failure of imagination'.

[Haijinx]

6 hours ago, Heraclea said:

The Orville achieves greatness by posing a simple question.  What would life in the Trek utopia be like for messy schlubs like ourselves?  If you're going to deconstruct Trek, this is how you do it. 

I rather liked the idea of a diamond hard deconstruction of Trek along the Moh's scale 

 

Irony being the hardest episode of Trek was probably the first half of the second pilot

[ShardWarrior]

On 2/5/2020 at 3:36 AM, Heraclea said:

This is what I would call a 'failure of imagination'.

Absolutely, and the trend is definitely continuing with the modern Trek films and series.

Edited February 6, 2020 by ShardWarrior

[Haijinx]

Roddenberry also fought off the Crew of Cadets idea successfully ... 

 

Unfortunately that one came back too.

[Marine X]

On 2/5/2020 at 12:00 AM, Heraclea said:

What would life in the Trek utopia be like for messy schlubs like ourselves?

Thought that the episode of TNG where Q showed Picard what his life would have been like if he played it safe very telling. He hated being a little trained Minion working in the Background. That removes all the romance from how great that life in the Federation would be for the average person, It made an impactful statement, but made me think how sad it made everyone but the main cast look, and I never forgot that.

[Haijinx]

Always hated Q

 

As my tastes have moved away from space fantasy I hated him even more. 

 

 

[Haijinx]

Started Watching Picard.

 

Its quite good.  Definitely a departure from the standard formula.  But well written and very well acted.

 

They threw the Zeerust right out the window, with some notable exceptions.  Which is actually pretty cool.  

 

 

[VileTerror]

They threw away the old Zeerust in a lot of places, yes, but I think they've gone and added a new one in some other places.  Like the Quantum Storage Facility and that folding-triangles-painting-guard.  In twenty years, I have a feeling even -those- will seem quaint by that era's modern technological aesthetics.

[Haijinx]

9 hours ago, VileTerror said:

They threw away the old Zeerust in a lot of places, yes, but I think they've gone and added a new one in some other places.  Like the Quantum Storage Facility and that folding-triangles-painting-guard.  In twenty years, I have a feeling even -those- will seem quaint by that era's modern technological aesthetics.

The big one was keeping the Data -esque look to the Androids.   Which of course we can do better than that in 2020 (look wise)  

 

But it fits the story well for reasons so I can dig it.  

 

In trek you can also play "its just a holographic" representation for a lot of things.  Like the quantum storage interface, I suppose.  Since they have magic holograms.  

 

I watched the first 4 episodes and I'm looking forward to the rest.  I liked Discovery more or less, but so far Picard is definitely better. 

[WanderingAries]

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 4:38 AM, Haijinx said:

Started Watching Picard.

 

Its quite good.  Definitely a departure from the standard formula.  But well written and very well acted.

 

They threw the Zeerust right out the window, with some notable exceptions.  Which is actually pretty cool.  

 

 

The eps are WAY too short though! You barely get into story and "next time on Picard"...

[Haijinx]

34 minutes ago, WanderingAries said:

The eps are WAY too short though! You barely get into story and "next time on Picard"...

Hmmm.  How long are they?  

 

I just assumed they went by quick because I liked the story.

[WanderingAries]

21 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Hmmm.  How long are they?  

 

I just assumed they went by quick because I liked the story.

I think they're 45 min, but there's commercials. If they were a full hour, then I think it'd be better as I think most the shows I've watch that are an hour feel more cleanly broken up.

[Apparition]

With today's episode, I am officially done with Star Trek: Picard, and quite possibly all new Star Trek from this point forward.  There is no need nor justification for what was displayed.  Certainly not in Star Trek.

[CienFuegos]

19 minutes ago, Apparition said:

With today's episode, I am officially done with Star Trek: Picard, and quite possibly all new Star Trek from this point forward.  There is no need nor justification for what was displayed.  Certainly not in Star Trek.

why what happened

[WanderingAries]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

With today's episode, I am officially done with Star Trek: Picard, and quite possibly all new Star Trek from this point forward.  There is no need nor justification for what was displayed.  Certainly not in Star Trek.

Well now a days they can get as dark or whatever because of the paywall.

[Haijinx]

Okay I watched Episode 5 tonight.  I really liked it,  but yeah the into was very gory.  

 

I do find it interesting that after a while Trek was seen as a sort of family show.  Combination of TNG and Time marches on I guess.  

 

For the 60's Trek was considered fairly racy.  Crew members died on a regular basis.  The costume designer pushed the limits on how much they could show on TV.  And it had the first televised Interracial kiss.  

 

  

 

 

[VileTerror]

I'm happy with Trek pushing boundaries.  While the motivation might be a little suspect, in the form of some board of executives saying "we need more ratings!"  I think the outcome of pushing up against the walls of society can sometimes give way to progress.  I mean, it's not like they're bowling over boundaries and trampling people under foot; just sort of nudging up against uncomfortable spaces to see if there's something nicer on the other side.

 

ie:  Haijinx's comment about the interracial kiss.  Kudos to Trek for that!  No idea if the motivations were pure (social progress, versus "let's do something to get talked about in the news!"), but motivations only provide context anyway.

[Haijinx]

I wouldn't put a gory opening scene in the same category as showing something socially progressive.

 

Just that that was probably more controversial considering the time period. 

 

Showing gore on "cable" isn't really controversal at all. 

 

 

[Apparition]

I am fine with social progression.  Gore and graphic violence, on the other hand, I find completely revolting, unacceptable, and unnecessary.  I don't watch television programs rated TV-MA nor most movies rated "R."  I tried making exceptions for Star Trek: Discovery and Star Trek: Picard, only to be extremely disappointed both times.

 

It's clear that, even though I loved Star Trek for nearly 40 years, the property is no longer for me.  Oh well.

[Haijinx]

While the gore didn't bother me.  I can respect it would bother people. 

 

It was gratuitous in that scene.  Could have easily been toned down.