Effective AOE combo that isnt fire or spines?

[Redlynne]

Ice/Ice Tanker ... plays like a "flypaper" Brute.

Draw stuff in and freeze them into pulp.

[Coyote]

Electric/Shield Stalker is a good melee option.

Archery/TA Blaster is a good ranged option.

Rad/Atomic Blaster is a good melee-ranged option.

Thug/TA is a good pet option.

[Doc_Scorpion]

Old skool scrapper saying - "I don't need an AOE.  I AM an AOE."

[MunkiLord]

26 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Old skool scrapper saying - "I don't need an AOE.  I AM an AOE."

You get it

[Pixie_Knight]

48 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Old skool scrapper saying - "I don't need an AOE.  I AM an AOE."

 

This is true even if you're playing a claw scrapper, which is predominantly single target.

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, Pixie_Knight said:

 

This is true even if you're playing a claw scrapper, which is predominantly single target.

Claws has a normal melee pboe a huge, ranged taoe cone, and a high damage melee cone. 

 

 

[Ironscarlet]

On the 2 cool for school Scrapper forum.

We been talking about Rad/Ice.

 

I have a spine/ice  but we won't talk about that here. Rad has very similar  AOE  capabilities and has a damage aura.

 

Ice on scrapper is diffrent than all other AT because you get Icicle and Bastion together. No other AT has this. Icicles give you a 2nd damage aura and Bastion is a quick rech T9 with no crash.  You also can get hibernate in epic pool equaling 2 T9's

 

What makes the combo great is chilling embrace slows them and with 2 damage aura and AOE's they never escape.  

 

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Ironscarlet

[golstat2003]

On 1/25/2020 at 7:45 AM, The_Warpact said:

Elec/SD broot, lightning rod and shield charge into a mob onto the next.

I use him for the Unai Kemen mish "Get Data from 1st Dimension " which is Freakshow, set for +4×8 and use as a farm.

Run TF's, radio, etc. Had him on Live now have him again.

Thanks for the reminder. I had started one of these a week before the game shut down. Needless to say I didn't get very far. LMAO!

[Pixie_Knight]

5 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Claws has a normal melee pboe a huge, ranged taoe cone, and a high damage melee cone. 

 

 

Evic has such a narrow cone that it may as well be single target. Getting more then 1 foe caught in it is rather unlikely usually. In fact, that's harder to line up for then melee cones usually are. Which leaves a single aoe and a ranged cone. Of eight attacks 5 are single target and one might as well be. This is primarily a single target attack set.

[Sovera]

8 hours ago, Pixie_Knight said:

 

This is true even if you're playing a claw scrapper, which is predominantly single target.

Wait, what? One of the best AoE sets Scrappers has is predominantly ST? All Scrapper Sets could only aspire to do the AoE Claws can.

[Pixie_Knight]

Out of nine powers, Claws has 8 attacks. Of them 3 are a cone or aoe. This seems pretty average.

 

Shockwave (level 32) is a ranged cone with a wide reach.

Eviscerate: Melee cone that is extremely narrow. More often then not it'll only hit one enemy, might as well be single target

Spin: pbaoe and rather nice attack. A little endurance intensive though, and not really spammable with just Eviscerate and Shockwave.

 

The other 5 attacks are all single target, and recharge fast enough that you can have a pretty solid attack chain with just Swipe, Strike, and Flurry Instead of Buildup there is an attack with damage on par with Swipe that also applies a damage/to-hit buff if it hits. Focus is single target, and combined with the T1-T3 attacks is a very solid attack chain. Oh, and a single target taunt which most people ignore the existence of. Claws is a single target focused set with a few AoE include, as is normal.

 

Ironically, far as I can tell the biggest reason Spines is considered an aoe set is because it has a damage aura. When looking at the number of aoe powers, Spines doesn't really have more when compared to other scrappers. They all tend to have a melee cone, pbaoe, and then maybe one more aoe or cone some sort. Then again blaster primaries get labeled as "single target" or "aoe" even though they tend to have the same ratio of single target vs aoe/Cone attacks. They tend to have one cone, one targeted aoe, and either one pbaoe or targeted aoe. The biggest difference is in recharge timers, thus what attacks become your bread and butter ones. With claws the single target attacks are a major part of your attack rotation. With spines you're expecting the minions and Lt's to be dead after a build up+Spine Burst. Or even just spine burst and standing there for a second or two.

[Sovera]

10 hours ago, Pixie_Knight said:

Out of nine powers, Claws has 8 attacks. Of them 3 are a cone or aoe. This seems pretty average.

 

Shockwave (level 32) is a ranged cone with a wide reach.

Eviscerate: Melee cone that is extremely narrow. More often then not it'll only hit one enemy, might as well be single target

Spin: pbaoe and rather nice attack. A little endurance intensive though, and not really spammable with just Eviscerate and Shockwave.

 

The other 5 attacks are all single target, and recharge fast enough that you can have a pretty solid attack chain with just Swipe, Strike, and Flurry Instead of Buildup there is an attack with damage on par with Swipe that also applies a damage/to-hit buff if it hits. Focus is single target, and combined with the T1-T3 attacks is a very solid attack chain. Oh, and a single target taunt which most people ignore the existence of. Claws is a single target focused set with a few AoE include, as is normal.

 

Ironically, far as I can tell the biggest reason Spines is considered an aoe set is because it has a damage aura. When looking at the number of aoe powers, Spines doesn't really have more when compared to other scrappers. They all tend to have a melee cone, pbaoe, and then maybe one more aoe or cone some sort. Then again blaster primaries get labeled as "single target" or "aoe" even though they tend to have the same ratio of single target vs aoe/Cone attacks. They tend to have one cone, one targeted aoe, and either one pbaoe or targeted aoe. The biggest difference is in recharge timers, thus what attacks become your bread and butter ones. With claws the single target attacks are a major part of your attack rotation. With spines you're expecting the minions and Lt's to be dead after a build up+Spine Burst. Or even just spine burst and standing there for a second or two.

A set having good AoE is not based on the number of AoEs it has, but how well they can be chained and the damage that they do.

 

Spin is obtained early and is the standard with a good recharge, Shockwave is a super fast animation coupled with a fast recharge. Anyone who has played Claws knows that the set is an AoE blender other sets (even Spines) can only aspire to reach when an AoE rotation is Follow-Up, Spin, Shockwave, repeat. Bonus points if having Hover and floating on top of mobs so that Shockwave acts as PbAoE. As a Scrapper I expect my BU  + Spin + Shockwave to have killed all minions and probably lieuts if there were crits involved.

 

Quills does tip the balance for Spines, but it doesn't have the fast animations and fast recharge, and Claws boasts of good ST damage -as well- which Spines can only eye longingly.

[Pixie_Knight]

I've never found Claws to be an "aoe blender" set. Decent aoe, yes. But Shockwave is more useful as a damage mitigation tool usually, even if it gets slotted for damage. Between it's fast (compared to other sets) recharge and fairly high endurance cost it's not a staple of the attack chain, usually. Spin is a good attack, and great when facing a bunch of melee focused mobs. But the majority of attacks I find myself making are single target ones. And yes, eviscerate is more of a single target attack then a cone. It *can* hit multiple enemies, but usually wont.

[Haijinx]

Shockwave is like a blaster AOE, its gigantic.  Its like Energy Torrent's meaner big brother.

 

Put a KB to KD in it.

 

Spin is a perfectly serviceable melee PBAOE.

 

Evis has a wider cone than most melee sets cone AOE get. 

 

 

 

[Sovera]

54 minutes ago, Pixie_Knight said:

I've never found Claws to be an "aoe blender" set. Decent aoe, yes. But Shockwave is more useful as a damage mitigation tool usually, even if it gets slotted for damage. Between it's fast (compared to other sets) recharge and fairly high endurance cost it's not a staple of the attack chain, usually. Spin is a good attack, and great when facing a bunch of melee focused mobs. But the majority of attacks I find myself making are single target ones. And yes, eviscerate is more of a single target attack then a cone. It *can* hit multiple enemies, but usually wont.

This quote pretty much explains all that needs to be said. Try it sometime. Follow-up, Spin, Shockwave. Single target Follow-up, Slash, Focus.

 

You -are- slotting Shockwave with a KB>KD, right?

Edited January 28, 2020 by Sovera

[Pixie_Knight]

No, I use it for damage mitigation that also does damage. In large fights it gets used more often then in smaller fights. Enemy has to not only stand up but run back towards me? That's less incoming damage in a huge fight. And that's aside from the fact that you have to back out of melee to even use it effectively against a group. My normal attack rotation tends to be

 

Shockwave>focus (targeting boss)>Follow Up>evic or Slash>Swipe or Evic (depending on which one I used previously)>Spin (assuming I'm surrounded by meleeing enemies)>Swipe or Strike>Swipe or Strike (whichever one I didn't just use)>Focus>Oh look, eviscerate is recharged now...

 

You might have noticed I have a variable attack chain instead of one singular "must always use in this exact order because it's optimized for maximum theoretical DPS" attack chain. I vary what attacks I use based on the situation and what is currently recharged. If I'm not particularly worried about a group due to none of them hitting particularly hard (if they connect) I may well not even use Shockwave. Or I might still open up with it, then use single target attacks to finish everything off. Or I might lead off with Spin, then use whichever attack feels most useful at the moment. It varies.

 

EDIT: Also, with that listed "aoe attack chain" I notice that it consists of mostly single target attacks.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Pixie_Knight

[Sovera]

43 minutes ago, Pixie_Knight said:

EDIT: Also, with that listed "aoe attack chain" I notice that it consists of mostly single target attacks.

Mmmyes, I'm not going to change your mind and it makes sense since you don't want to slot a KB>KD and prefer Eviscerate.

 

You do you.

 

 

Focus is the only ST attack in the AoE rotation though. I should have used a paragraph:

 

AoE - Focus, Spin, Shockwave. Repeat through infinity without gaps. Not many attacks are received since the mitigation you speak of is still present with the animation of mobs falling down and getting up pretty much exactly as long as it takes for Shockwave to be used again.

 

Single target - Follow-Up, Slash, Focus. Repeat through infinity.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Sovera

[Bossk_Hogg]

Water/Atomic blaster. Force Feedbacks coupled with Metabolic Acceleration and Beta Decay often have me at the recharge cap in melee range. Geyser is a mag 3 disorient, which alternated with radioactive cloud means you mez everything but bosses easily.  

 

I skipped Steam Spray so no cones to bother fiddling with either, but its a solid attack as well. You just need good defenses to live in melee, but its so incredibly satisfying. 

[Haijinx]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

Mmmyes, I'm not going to change your mind and it makes sense since you don't want to slot a KB>KD and prefer Eviscerate.

 

You do you.

 

 

Focus is the only ST attack in the AoE rotation though. I should have used a paragraph:

 

AoE - Focus, Spin, Shockwave. Repeat through infinity without gaps. Not many attacks are received since the mitigation you speak of is still present with the animation of mobs falling down and getting up pretty much exactly as long as it takes for Shockwave to be used again.

 

Single target - Follow-Up, Slash, Focus. Repeat through infinity.

Even if the KB was slightly better than KD,

 

How much mitigation does a high level scrapper really need? 

 

KD is way better for AOE damage.  

 

In my experience Claws is one of the best Scrapper/Brute AOE sets. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sovera]

1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

Even if the KB was slightly better than KD,

 

How much mitigation does a high level scrapper really need? 

 

KD is way better for AOE damage.  

 

In my experience Claws is one of the best Scrapper/Brute AOE sets.

Well... Yes. I didn't want to call aspersions on their build. God knows ITF is the achille's heel of all my /Bio's characters and where my Claws/Bio Scrapper is the only one who just tackles on a spawn without having to kite since nothing much moves until I decide to.

 

I do love my Ice/Bio Stalker (my current fad) but even Ice Patch is not on par with Shockwave who not just mitigates but does lovely wide AoE at the same time. And don't get me started on fighting Battle Maiden and be able to just sit there spamming Focus + Shockwave when she sits on a blue circle. In the meanwhile my Stalker is all 'c'mere, c'mere!! Coward!' 😄

[Pixie_Knight]

People do realize that Shockwave is not the best choice when attacking a single foe like an AV, right? And unless you're investing somewhat heavily into both endurance redux and recharge redux the "attack chain" of spin>shockwave>focus has more holes then swiss cheese.

[nihilii]

On 1/27/2020 at 3:43 AM, Lazarillo said:

Claws/ Scrappers are pretty nice if ya build 'em right.  Stick a KB->KD enhancement in Shockwave, and the Critical Strikes proc in Follow-Up, and you've got all the slicey carnage you need to put down groups of enemies or tough targets.

Claws Scrappers are pretty great. Alternatively, Claws Tankers aren't too shabby either. The recent Tanker buff benefits them in several ways:

- Tankers, like Brutes, have different numbers for Claws. Slower recharge, higher damage. This is good, because you're animation-locked more than anything

- higher base damage coupled with Follow Up +damage

- Spin has a radius of 12 feet rather than 8 feet (or >200% the surface area) and hits up to 16 targets rather than 10

To illustrate these points: Spin on a level 50 tanker does 99.85 damage unenhanced. Spin on a level 50 scrapper does 98.85 damage unenhanced (before crits).

The scrapper will still pull ahead in damage, mind you, thanks to the scrapper procs and crits. But if you want comfort, as well as easy farming ability? The tanker is up there, with wider radius, higher survivability and built-in aggro control without restricting yourself to /bio.
 

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Pixie_Knight said:

People do realize that Shockwave is not the best choice when attacking a single foe like an AV, right?

 

14 hours ago, Sovera said:

Single target - Follow-Up, Slash, Focus. Repeat through infinity.

*headscratch*

 

 

1 hour ago, Pixie_Knight said:

 And unless you're investing somewhat heavily into both endurance redux and recharge redux the "attack chain" of spin>shockwave>focus has more holes then swiss cheese.

...why wouldn't you invest on endurance reduction and recharge? Anyway... circular argument. It's much easier to show than tell.

 

 

Quick and dirty screen capture grab who decided to play in fast forward, but clicking on the little gear and reducing the playback speed to 0.5 makes it go at normal speed.

 

I hadn't touched my Claws character in about a month so it's sloppily executed but it should show the lack of swiss cheese involved and the spam of AoE that can be done, when I wasn't spazzing around. Hovering over the enemies instead of being in the middle of them works a lot better and is going Focus - Shockwave - Spin to try fitting everyting in the Critical Strikes 3.5 second proc.

 

My only Incarnate is T4 45% Musculature so T4 33% should help if not playing /Bio with the extra Recovery attached to it.

 

This is as far as I'm willing to entertain this conversation though because I feel I'm not getting through after the line about using Shockwave on an AV.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Sovera

[Steele_Magnolia]

I'm having fun with my water/storm corrupter. She has so many AOEs. PBAOEs, Targeted AOEs, Cones. 

[Seigmoraig]

I have been playing on a Invul/War Mace Tanker and I have been having a lot of fun with the AoE that it has since the Tanker patch. I don't even have Crowd Control yet and he is just awesome.

Seeing Shatter constantly hit 5+ targets is amazing 😄