Ill/rad perma PA build

[Ukase]

This is by no means the best optimal build for an ill/rad controller. I'd made one back in the day, and it was fun so I made another. 

There was someone in help channel asking about the recharge necessary, and he/she has asked if I could share the build. So, here it is. 

I'm not savvy enough to know how to just put "click here" to open the build, so you'll have to cut and paste it into mids. 

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1479&c=645&a=1290&f=HEX&dc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

[Rathulfr]

Here's an alternative build that's way more expensive (created for the test server, where IOs are free).  I'd appreciate any feedback on it.  Thanks!

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Rathclone: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Teleportation
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- UnbCns-Hold(A), UnbCns-Hold/Rchg(3), UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg(3), UnbCns-Acc/Rchg(5), UnbCns-EndRdx/Hold(5), UnbCns-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7), Heal-I(9), Heal-I(15)
Level 2: Deceive -- CrcPrs-Conf(A), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(9), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(11), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(11), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(13), CrcPrs-Conf%(13)
Level 4: Accelerate Metabolism -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 6: Flash -- SprOvrPrs-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprOvrPrs-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(23), SprOvrPrs-EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprOvrPrs-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(25), SprOvrPrs-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(25), SprOvrPrs-Rchg/Energy Font(27)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(27), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(29), Rct-Def/Rchg(29), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Rct-ResDam%(31)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 12: Group Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(33), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 14: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Mutation -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- SlbAll-Dmg(A), SlbAll-Dmg/Rchg(33), SlbAll-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SlbAll-Acc/Rchg(34), SlbAll-Dmg/EndRdx(34), SlbAll-Build%(36)
Level 20: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(36), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(36)
Level 22: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(37), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(39), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(39), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(40)
Level 28: Tactics -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(40), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(42)
Level 30: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Phantasm -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(42), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(42), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(43), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(43)
Level 35: Indomitable Will -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 38: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 41: World of Confusion -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(45), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Arm-Acc/Rchg(45), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Arm-Dam%(46)
Level 44: Psionic Tornado -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(46), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(48), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Rgn-Knock%(50)
Level 47: Mind Over Body -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), ImpSki-Status(50), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(50)
Level 49: Recall Friend -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(15), Pnc-Heal/+End(17)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(17), EndMod-I(19)
------------

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Rathulfr

[soundslikea20]

5 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

Here's an alternative build that's way more expensive (created for the test server, where IOs are free).  I'd appreciate any feedback on it.  Thanks!

 

  Hide contents

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Rathclone: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Emission

 

You dropped all the debuffs, so I would say this is not an ideal build for illrad.

Edited January 26, 2020 by soundslikea20

[Rathulfr]

7 minutes ago, soundslikea20 said:

You dropped all the debuffs, so I would say this is not an ideal build for illrad.

Correct: I was going for a different approach, with more emphasis on controls and pets.

[Call Me Awesome]

3 hours ago, soundslikea20 said:

You dropped all the debuffs, so I would say this is not an ideal build for illrad.

 

3 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

Correct: I was going for a different approach, with more emphasis on controls and pets.

Without the debuffs there's not a lot of benefit to taking Radiation.

[Rathulfr]

10 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

Without the debuffs there's not a lot of benefit to taking Radiation.

Agreed, a conventional Rad build would focus on the debuffs.

 

[quixoteprog]

I second the idea that the thing Rad offers over anything else are its debuffs. If you don't use those it seems like you would be better off taking another secondary. They are also the thing that makes it synergize with Illusions, mostly for PA. You cannot buff the decoys, or the decoy that Phantasm summons, but you can debuff the enemies; which helps you and all the others.

 

Looks like the only things you took from Radiation is the heal, rez and AM. Aside from AM, which is pretty awesome I know, everything else could be gotten with most other secondaries. You might want to consider looking at those to see if they offer better alternatives for those three powers. You also seem to be pretty deep in the leadership pool, which will help in groups, but not as much as a the debuffs in solo play, I don't think.

 

But if this guy is going to be mostly supporting groups it should be fine.

[oedipus_tex]

Radiation Infection is arguably skippable. I still wouldn't, but there's an argument to be had there.

 

Enervating Field and Lingering Radiation,at least in my book are definitely not skippable. -Resist is too useful , especially paired with Phantom Army. And -Regen is critical for AV fights.

 

Looking at the second build posted, it seems like the player would be happier with Time Manipulation than Radiation. Even tho you'd still want some of the Time debuffs, the -Regen in Time Stop is lower and therefor skippable, and the Radiation Infection power is a PBAoE toggle which also makes it skippable. Time takes longer to get to Chrono Shift than Radiation does to AM, but it provides +50% Recharge instead of +30%. 

 

 

[Antarticaa]

On 1/26/2020 at 1:33 PM, Ukase said:

This is by no means the best optimal build for an ill/rad controller. I'd made one back in the day, and it was fun so I made another. 

There was someone in help channel asking about the recharge necessary, and he/she has asked if I could share the build. So, here it is. 

I'm not savvy enough to know how to just put "click here" to open the build, so you'll have to cut and paste it into mids. 

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1479&c=645&a=1290&f=HEX&dc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

That's a great build Ukase!  Thanks for sharing it.

[Rathulfr]

On 1/27/2020 at 8:10 AM, quixoteprog said:

I second the idea that the thing Rad offers over anything else are its debuffs. If you don't use those it seems like you would be better off taking another secondary. They are also the thing that makes it synergize with Illusions, mostly for PA. You cannot buff the decoys, or the decoy that Phantasm summons, but you can debuff the enemies; which helps you and all the others.

 

Looks like the only things you took from Radiation is the heal, rez and AM. Aside from AM, which is pretty awesome I know, everything else could be gotten with most other secondaries. You might want to consider looking at those to see if they offer better alternatives for those three powers. You also seem to be pretty deep in the leadership pool, which will help in groups, but not as much as a the debuffs in solo play, I don't think.

 

But if this guy is going to be mostly supporting groups it should be fine.

You make some points that I hadn't considered, which has me rethinking my build.  Thank you.

[Rathulfr]

On 1/27/2020 at 9:49 AM, oedipus_tex said:

Radiation Infection is arguably skippable. I still wouldn't, but there's an argument to be had there.

 

Enervating Field and Lingering Radiation,at least in my book are definitely not skippable. -Resist is too useful , especially paired with Phantom Army. And -Regen is critical for AV fights.

 

Looking at the second build posted, it seems like the player would be happier with Time Manipulation than Radiation. Even tho you'd still want some of the Time debuffs, the -Regen in Time Stop is lower and therefor skippable, and the Radiation Infection power is a PBAoE toggle which also makes it skippable. Time takes longer to get to Chrono Shift than Radiation does to AM, but it provides +50% Recharge instead of +30%. 

 

 

Like @quixoteprog, you make some points that I hadn't considered, which has me rethinking my build.  Thank you.

[Ukase]

The idea of PA being unbuffable and the synergy of radiation debuffing the npcs...this was an observation made by others long before me, for sure. In fact, I never even thought about it! 

The primary reason I made an ill/rad back in live was I had never made a controller before, and they told me my ice blaster with its holds was woefully inadequate to help vs. hamidon. So I made the ill/rad. I learned a good bit about hold magnitude, something that had completely eluded me before, as well as the under-used term "damage mitigation".  I made one this time around to solo GMs and task forces with AVs that my other characters would have a harder time with. (could still do it, but only if fully IO'd out, and often needing a Summon or Lore pet) 

 

The Spectral Terror, the PA, and often heroic, but foolish Phantasm, they all blend together brilliantly once you get used to managing them. If nobody has ever played a controller, I suggest you at least try one until the level 30's. It may be tedious, and boring at times, particularly if you solo more often than not, but what you will learn will make you a better teammate when you team with a controller, or at a minimum, appreciate how much thought goes into playing one well. Because when an ill/rad teams, not only are they managing their pets, but they're also trying to help you remain alive with their limited heal. It's a fair amount of work! 

[Taboomantis]

https://web.archive.org/web/20120905042613/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=141225

[coggy]

This is my current build , its an old one so probably needs a lot of tweaking but its certainly playable

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Cognitive Dissident: Level 50 Technology Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Ice Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Spectral Wounds -- Dcm-Acc/Dmg(A), Dcm-Dmg/Rchg(50), Dcm-Build%(50), Dcm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), Dcm-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Dvs-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- DctWnd-Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal(50), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(50), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx(50)
Level 2: Blind -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(50), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(50), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(50), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(50), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 4: Deceive -- CrcPrs-Conf(A), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(50), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(50), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(50), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(50)
Level 6: Accelerate Metabolism -- EffAdp-EndMod/Acc(A), EffAdp-EndMod/EndRdx(50), EffAdp-Acc/Rchg(50), EffAdp-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(50), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(50), EffAdp-EndMod(50)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(50), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 10: Hover -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 12: Air Superiority -- CrsImp-Dmg/Rchg(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(50)
Level 14: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), Flight-I(50), Flight-I(50)
Level 16: Mutation -- RechRdx(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(50), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(50), Acc(50), Acc(50)
Level 20: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 22: Radiation Infection -- HY:AntiP(A), EndRdx-I(50)
Level 24: Enervating Field -- HY:AntiP(A), EndRdx-I(50)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- UnsTrr-Stun%(A), UnsTrr-Acc/Fear/Rchg(50), UnsTrr-Acc/Rchg(50), UnsTrr-EndRdx/Fear(50), UnsTrr-Fear/Rng(50)
Level 28: Lingering Radiation -- Acc-I(A)
Level 30: Flash -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(50), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(50), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(50)
Level 32: Phantasm -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(50), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(50), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(50)
Level 35: Fallout -- Acc(A)
Level 38: EM Pulse -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(50), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(50), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(50)
Level 41: Ice Blast -- Dcm-Acc/Dmg(A), Dcm-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Dcm-Dmg/Rchg(50), Dcm-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Dcm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 44: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Frost Breath -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(50), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Hibernate -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Heal/Rchg(A), Mrc-Heal/EndRdx(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(50), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(50), PrfShf-EndMod(50)
------------

 

 

[Elmyder]

One huge piece of advice: Fill Blind with damage procs. This will turn your weakest attack into your strongest by a good margin.

The guide from 2009 that someone posted advises against doing this, arguing that slotting for damage would be better. I'm not sure if procs worked differently at that time, but this is definitely false now. With 4 orange damage procs and one purple, it will have an average damage of approximately 300. If you wanted to go really extreme, 4 orange damage procs and 2 purples will give it an average damage of almost 400. (This assumes you are not getting any enhancement recharge from alpha, like agility or spiritual. If you do, these numbers drop significantly, but they will still be way higher than they would be with any other slotting.)

By comparison, slotting for damage and taking musculature core will only have it doing an average damage of about 70,

Second piece of advise: Put achilles heel chance for res debuff proc into rad infection. This will have a 20% chance per 10 seconds to do an additional -20% res debuff for 10 seconds. So in other words, if you have both enervating field and rad infection on a target, they will be at -42.5 res about 1/5 of the time. This effectively raises the -res of enervating field to -26.5.

[coggy]

10 hours ago, Elmyder said:

One huge piece of advice: Fill Blind with damage procs. This will turn your weakest attack into your strongest by a good margin.

The guide from 2009 that someone posted advises against doing this, arguing that slotting for damage would be better. I'm not sure if procs worked differently at that time, but this is definitely false now. With 4 orange damage procs and one purple, it will have an average damage of approximately 300. If you wanted to go really extreme, 4 orange damage procs and 2 purples will give it an average damage of almost 400. (This assumes you are not getting any enhancement recharge from alpha, like agility or spiritual. If you do, these numbers drop significantly, but they will still be way higher than they would be with any other slotting.)

By comparison, slotting for damage and taking musculature core will only have it doing an average damage of about 70,

Second piece of advise: Put achilles heel chance for res debuff proc into rad infection. This will have a 20% chance per 10 seconds to do an additional -20% res debuff for 10 seconds. So in other words, if you have both enervating field and rad infection on a target, they will be at -42.5 res about 1/5 of the time. This effectively raises the -res of enervating field to -26.5.

You will have to explain damage procs to me i have no idea what they are   :)

[Elmyder]

3 hours ago, coggy said:

You will have to explain damage procs to me i have no idea what they are   🙂

As an example, take a look at the purple hold set, Unbreakable Guard. One of the enhancements says "chance for smashing damage". This enhancement will make it so that, on each activation of the power, you have some chance of dealing an additional 107.1 points of smashing damage. (Damage procs are always 101.7 for purples and 71.75 for oranges.) The chance that a proc will occur is a function of ppm (procs per minutes, noted in the enhancement description), the power's base recharge time, enhancement recharge, activation time, and (if applicable) the power's arc and radius. You can read all about the mathy details at the link below if you're interested. Alternatively, you could play around in mids. It will automatically calculate the chance to proc  and factor it into the  power's average damage. There are 7 damage procs that a controller can fit into blind. Find them by checking each set for a "chance for ___ damage".

Bear the following general principles in mind: more recharge,  larger arc, larger radius, and shorter cast time all = lower chance to proc.
 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Cityofheroes/comments/c5ub58/all_about_ppm_procs_per_minute/

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Elmyder

[Elmyder]

7 minutes ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

This info posted on reddit and referenced above is outdated:

Go here for the correct and up to date proc info:

 

and here for applied procs:

 

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing. Can you please points out what exactly is outdated about the reddit post? Is it just a matter of your links containing more information? (I know the reddit post notes some things as not yet known.) Or does the reddit post actually contain erroneous information?

 

A quick review of the formulas show that they are exact same on the first link you references as on the reddit post.

[Bopper]

5 minutes ago, Elmyder said:

Thank you for sharing. Can you please points out what exactly is outdated about the reddit post? Is it just a matter of your links containing more information? (I know the reddit post notes some things as not yet known.) Or does the reddit post actually contain erroneous information?

 

A quick review of the formulas show that they are exact same on the first link you references as on the reddit post.

Wrong Area Factor and wrong understanding of ActivatePeriod for toggles (maybe other stuff, I don't recall). I believe that guy made a new thread based on my findings, but I can't recall all the edits he made. 

 

For the most part, my guide has the correct information. There is some stuff I could add that speaks to pseudopets, regular pets, and some nuances, but I havent taken time to address it properly in the guide (mostly in the comments)

[Elmyder]

4 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Wrong Area Factor and wrong understanding of ActivatePeriod for toggles (maybe other stuff, I don't recall). I believe that guy made a new thread based on my findings, but I can't recall all the edits he made. 

 

For the most part, my guide has the correct information. There is some stuff I could add that speaks to pseudopets, regular pets, and some nuances, but I havent taken time to address it properly in the guide (mostly in the comments)

I'm confused, the formula for area factor in the reddit post is exactly the same as the 'one formula to rule them all' in your thread. As for toggles and pseudopets, the guide I posted made note that these were not completely understood (specifically regarding the activation period for toggles).

 

With that said, I was unaware of your thread, so I look forward to reading it to learn more. Thank you for the work you've done to test and compile these results!

 

5 minutes ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

I don't recall all the errors of the reddit post but it's not just "more information", its corrected information. From what I do remember cast time doesn't play a factor in PPM as the reddit post claims. Another example is how the AFs were calculated. Nothing personal but frankly I wouldn't use the reddit thread for authoritative information on PPM mechanics.

Cast time is included in the formulas in both sources in exactly the same way. The formula for Area Factor is also the same in both locations (aside from the lack of info regarding chains in the reddit post).

Not trying to argue, I just want to understand the mechanics! (I don't take anything as authoritative anyway, I will test it myself if it applies specifically to my gameplay.)

[Bopper]

16 minutes ago, Elmyder said:

I'm confused, the formula for area factor in the reddit post is exactly the same as the 'one formula to rule them all' in your thread. As for toggles and pseudopets, the guide I posted made note that these were not completely understood (specifically regarding the activation period for toggles).

 

With that said, I was unaware of your thread, so I look forward to reading it to learn more. Thank you for the work you've done to test and compile these results!

 

Cast time is included in the formulas in both sources in exactly the same way. The formula for Area Factor is also the same in both locations (aside from the lack of info regarding chains in the reddit post).

Not trying to argue, I just want to understand the mechanics! (I don't take anything as authoritative anyway, I will test it myself if it applies specifically to my gameplay.)

In my guide, I tried to use different terms for clarity. My guide looks like the reddit version, but you'll notice the term I use is called AreaMod, not AreaFactor. AreaFactor is used in design formulas so I did not want to give a new definition to a set term.

 

But yes, the AF I give is the same AF shown in the reddit post and is the same AF as the design formulas. However, the AreaMod = 0.25 + 0.75xAF.

 

Or rewritten as AreaMod = 1 + 0.75 x Radius x (11 x Arc + 540) / 30,000,

 

which can be rewritten as AreaMod = 1 + Radius x (11 x Arc + 540) / 40,000

 

Edit: to be clear, I'm not saying their AF is wrong, but the PPM formula in regards to how AF is used is wrong, as the 75% dampening needed to be factored in

Edited February 4, 2020 by Bopper

[Elmyder]

5 minutes ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

No worries. You are right I should have been more clear.

 

Lets look at the reddit MRT formula MRT = ((Base Recharge) / (1 + enhancement percentage)) + Cast Time

and now Boppers guide formula: MRT = BaseRecharge / ( 1 + RechargeBoost_from_Enhancements_and_Alpha / 100 )

 

reddit formula for AF = (((((Arc - 360) * 11) + 4500) / 30000) * Radius) + 1

Bopper guide: AF = 1 + Radius x (11 * Arc + 540) / 30,000

 

 

No, these formulas are actually the same from both sources.

 

The reddit post factors cast time into MRT, whereas the one on the Homecoming thread factors it into probability to proc (the first formula on that post). So it's just a matter of MRT being defined slightly differently, but the end result is the same.

 

As for AF, if you distribute (arc-360)*11, you'll see these are also exactly the same formula. (Namely, 4500-11*360=540.)

[Elmyder]

58 minutes ago, Bopper said:

In my guide, I tried to use different terms for clarity. My guide looks like the reddit version, but you'll notice the term I use is called AreaMod, not AreaFactor. AreaFactor is used in design formulas so I did not want to give a new definition to a set term.

 

But yes, the AF I give is the same AF shown in the reddit post and is the same AF as the design formulas. However, the AreaMod = 0.25 + 0.75xAF.

 

Or rewritten as AreaMod = 1 + 0.75 x Radius x (11 x Arc + 540) / 30,000,

 

which can be rewritten as AreaMod = 1 + Radius x (11 x Arc + 540) / 40,000

 

Edit: to be clear, I'm not saying their AF is wrong, but the PPM formula in regards to how AF is used is wrong, as the 75% dampening needed to be factored in

Okay, yes, I see the AreaMod difference now. Thank you for clarifying!

[Bopper]

9 minutes ago, Elmyder said:

No, these formulas are actually the same from both sources.

 

The reddit post factors cast time into MRT, whereas the one on the Homecoming thread factors it into probability to proc (the first formula on that post). So it's just a matter of MRT being defined slightly differently, but the end result is the same.

 

As for AF, if you distribute (arc-360)*11, you'll see these are also exactly the same formula. (Namely, 4500-11*360=540.)

Fun fact, that ugly AF calculation with all of the parenthesis is actually how it is calculated in the game. I believe it was @hopeling back on Live who introduced the easier to read version that I use. It makes it easier to see just how much a contribution of Radius and/or Arc provide to the PPM calculation. 

[Elmyder]

Just now, Bopper said:

Fun fact, that ugly AF calculation with all of the parenthesis is actually how it is calculated in the game. I believe it was @hopeling back on Live who introduced the easier to read version that I use. It makes it easier to see just how much a contribution of Radius and/or Arc provide to the PPM calculation. 

Yes, I do agree it is a cleaner presentation. I was mainly just curious what the mathematical difference was, because it would affect my own calculations for builds.

Question: Am I correct that the area modifier is missing from your 'singly formula (for copy/paste)'? Specifically for click powers. It appears this one is using the classic 60*AF. This is what I was originally referencing to compare them.