So, about those widows...

[Neiska]

Hello forums,

 

Just had a few widow questions. I haven't made one yet, but have definately been chin tapping about it. I've only played the Crab soldier (who is currently my main AT), but sadly felt a bit underwhelming, especially compaired to my scrapper who does twice as good with half the investment. (Crabber was a bit tanky with good aoe, but doesnt hit very hard sadly, and the pets didnt seem that good on max difficulty, even after building for the strongest crabber pets possible. Still lil bummed about that.)

 

But onto questions about widows!

 

1. Widows, how do they play? Reading the forums, it seems they are sort of all over the place? As i understand them, the night widows are semi stalkers? If so what sets them apart from stalkers? What do they specalize in?

 

2. Fortunas, what do they bring to the table? Again, going from the forums here, it seems they are quasi tank/brute/stalker/blaster/dominator all in one? I mean, isnt that spreading yourself pretty thin? "Jack of all trades, master of none" as it were? I mean, what are Fortunas exceptionally good at, unless its their varied options that is their specality? And I read on the forums about Fortunas tanking/soloing ATs and so on, but looking at their tools, I'm not sure "how" they do it? Insight would be awesome here!

 

3. And now for Widows VS Fortunas - whats the difference? They both seem to have similar loadouts. One is stalker like, and the other is more varied?

 

Thanks bunches in advance

[Shockacon]

I haven't played Forts so I will defer offering insight to someone experienced. As far as night widows, they kinda play like a claws/SR stalker but the 2 I've played to 50 seem to do it better. You can also throw in a couple of psionic attacks from the Night Widow Training pool once you hit 24. I skipped them on mine but toy with the idea of adding them in a respec. Both are great on teams  and can solo easily. Honestly, I got to 50 the quickest with a NW and tore through Incarnate content on mine. I can't imagine a Fort wouldn't be just as good.

 

Again, I haven't played thru the Fort route but I've always heard good things from friends online who did. Either way, we get the buttcapes so we're always more fashionable than the rest of Arachnos 😎

[siolfir]

The Night Widow path is, as you said, primarily a Stalker with better team buffs and more options for ranged attacks. It's easier for them to perma Mind Link because it has a shorter recharge and they get a Quickness/Lightning Reflexes clone that boosts their recharge. If you care about this sort of thing, there are a few sub-2:00 times in the Pylon thread for Night Widows.

 

Fortunatas aren't the "Jack of all trades, master of none", though. You can build for that if you want, but even a little bit of focus on any of those aspects will have you performing well at it. I built mine for soft-cap without Mind Link but with enough recharge to keep Mind Link permanent; that gives me a cushion for incarnate content, mobs with to-hit buffs, or defense debuffs, and also helps the team if there's anyone that didn't build for the softcap. You have most of the good powers from Mind Control, with all the proc options that they provide, plus Psychic Wail to nuke spawns and stun what survives. You can go pure ranged at the cost of some damage, but that's because the melee attacks are that good and not that the damage modifier is low (my first Fortunata was a ranged build, my current one is a melee hybrid).

 

As for which... unless you just want to run melee only or want to go for single target DPS I recommend the Fortunata path; whichever you go with I recommend the scaling resistance and absorb procs - combined with the scaling resistances you get from your auto powers and a few set bonuses you'll be set on staying alive even without a heal.

[Neiska]

Hello again,

 

Thank you both for your responses and insight. I think I am leaning toward Fortuna based on what I am hearing. And I am guessing you are referring to the Foresight auto power under teamwork? What is the best way to use that exactly, aim for softcap defenses and enjoy higher damage resistances the more damage you take?

[SeraphimKensai]

You could always be like me when it comes to VEATS and use an alternate build macro to swap on the fly between Night Widow/Blood Widow/Fortunata. It is really strong and versatile, at the drawback of your cooldowns pop when you swap, but it's worth it.

[Richard Nelson]

Remember you have a second build option. Play one on the first build, another on the second. Whatever feels the most fun, well that's your new primary. That's what I did.

[siolfir]

3 hours ago, Neiska said:

Hello again,

 

Thank you both for your responses and insight. I think I am leaning toward Fortuna based on what I am hearing. And I am guessing you are referring to the Foresight auto power under teamwork? What is the best way to use that exactly, aim for softcap defenses and enjoy higher damage resistances the more damage you take?

Treat it as if you were making a Super Reflexes character... you just do it in fewer powers. Here's a comparison from another thread that applies for both Night Widows and Fortunatas:

 

It's fairly easy to softcap with perma-Mind Link (with it active you get more defense than SR) but with controls you don't need to.

 

Many builds you'll find use Aid Self; you have the defense to use it fairly regularly but I've found that with the build I have I didn't need it, and often even skip using green inspirations just because the incoming damage was low enough that my regen (and Panacea proc) was keeping up with it once the scaling resistance kicked in. You can help the scaling resistance out with oranges, too, they usually affect my hp bar more than popping the same size green, it just takes a bit longer to get there.

 

What does kill you is bad RNG timing where multiple hard hits get through before the resistance kicks in but that's true for SR also.

[tidge]

The closest classic AT is probably a SR Scrapper (for Widows). For Fortunata: I play mine like a Blapper.

 

Both can handle a lot of aggro, but that is because of how trivial it is to increase positional Defenses well beyond softcaps. My builds can't Tank because it takes more effort (powers and slots) to concentrate on resistances.  For the record: I consider tanking to be more than just grabbing the aggro of a room which has trouble hitting you and whose damage you can heal from during fights.

 

AVs and GMs are the only things that give my Fortunata reason to pause. The pause is usually just long enough to find one other player to help deliver damage. Lord Recluse will quickly 2-shot my builds, but there isn't much other content that cannot be handled. The Rularuu are much tougher than most content, but can be dealt with by a change of tactics.

[Gulbasaur]

On 1/28/2020 at 5:50 PM, Neiska said:

1. Widows, how do they play? Reading the forums, it seems they are sort of all over the place? As i understand them, the night widows are semi stalkers? If so what sets them apart from stalkers? What do they specalize in?

Dominators with more melee and better defences, is what I'd say. Night Widows are, in my opinion, not in a good place as they play like weak scrappers with one or two stealth attacks. They were comparable to stalkers before stalkers got a rework.

On 1/28/2020 at 5:50 PM, Neiska said:

2. Fortunas, what do they bring to the table? Again, going from the forums here, it seems they are quasi tank/brute/stalker/blaster/dominator all in one? I mean, isnt that spreading yourself pretty thin? "Jack of all trades, master of none" as it were? I mean, what are Fortunas exceptionally good at, unless its their varied options that is their specality? And I read on the forums about Fortunas tanking/soloing ATs and so on, but looking at their tools, I'm not sure "how" they do it? Insight would be awesome here!

Control, melee, buffs, lots of damage. I play mine mostly as a sort of blaster control tank, mostly. Honestly, it's my favourite archetype. Most people, from what I gather, play them as a melee/range/control hybrid. I consider them a "greatest hits" archetype as they sort of take all the cool bits from different archetypes and roll them into one.

 

On 1/28/2020 at 5:50 PM, Neiska said:

3. And now for Widows VS Fortunas - whats the difference? They both seem to have similar loadouts. One is stalker like, and the other is more varied?

Widows = stalkers before they got a rework. Kind of underwhelming. OK melee and some range with some team buffs.

Fortunatas = most of the OK melee, but with more range and more control. <- pick this one, even if you plan to go mostly melee. The hard- and soft-control and AoE capacity makes up for the loss of one or two melee attacks. They play like melee-focussed dominators with very, very high defence.

[Erydanus]

The thing is, this archetype is super adaptable and customizable.

 

For instance the starter powerset is basically Claws with some dart attacks up to tier 7. When you do the Night Widow/Fortunata split, Widows get the claws tier 8, Eviscerate; their actual tier 9 is Psychic Scream; they also get a defensive Tier 9 in Elude. They get a few utility powers added in to the primary.

 

On the other hand, Fortunatas keep all the starter claw attacks but get a complete roster of ranged attacks as if they are the love child of a mind controller and a psi blaster. They literally get TEN primary pool powers added as choices on top of the 8 they share with Widows. Unlike Night Widows you don't get Eviscerate but you do get Psychic Wail and so many other choices. You get similar extra choices in your secondary but get Aura of Confusion instead of Elude since you're not going the dedicated melee route. Still... do you want 20/80 melee/ranged? do you want 50/50? 80/20? 0/100? You can do it, it's all up to you. You can hybridize to any proportion and you can also choose to focus on damage or a mix of damage & control.  What Gulbasaur said about them being blaster-control-tank hybrids is so dead on. But you can do different things if you want.

[Sou1catcher]

On 1/28/2020 at 12:50 PM, Neiska said:

2. Fortunas, what do they bring to the table? Again, going from the forums here, it seems they are quasi tank/brute/stalker/blaster/dominator all in one? I mean, isnt that spreading yourself pretty thin? "Jack of all trades, master of none" as it were? I mean, what are Fortunas exceptionally good at, unless its their varied options that is their specality? And I read on the forums about Fortunas tanking/soloing ATs and so on, but looking at their tools, I'm not sure "how" they do it? Insight would be awesome here!

Except for bringing up my Fort, I have Zero knowledge of Widow.

 

I run my Fort ranged but with Aim, Lunge(from Stealth), Follow Up, Psy Wail, Spin, Psy Tornado as my opening move and then jump out to Range to burn down anything still standing with ST and some AoE cones mixed in..

There are only three melee attacks in my build but they can be used to devastate a mob. Aim and Follow Up are to make sure Psy Wail hits like a Brick while Spin and Psy Tornado gets the AoE extra damage as well.

[terrawar]

heres a link to my fortuna build. shes built to be support for any team. ad dish her own damage as well.

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1470&c=690&a=1380&f=HEX&dc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

[Neiska]

Thanks to everyone so far for the advice and imput. My own widow just hit 24 last night, and I decided to go for Fort. Only just finished her rebuild, so I hope the difficult part is done.

 

What about incarnates? Any particular ones really stand out for Forta/Widows?

[siolfir]

2 hours ago, Neiska said:

Thanks to everyone so far for the advice and imput. My own widow just hit 24 last night, and I decided to go for Fort. Only just finished her rebuild, so I hope the difficult part is done.

 

What about incarnates? Any particular ones really stand out for Forta/Widows?

Nothing really stands out, here's a thread asking the same question:

My only change since my post in that thread is that I have also built a Rebirth Radial Destiny, but I usually still use the Ageless.

 

[Gulbasaur]

9 hours ago, Neiska said:

Thanks to everyone so far for the advice and imput. My own widow just hit 24 last night, and I decided to go for Fort. Only just finished her rebuild, so I hope the difficult part is done.

 

What about incarnates? Any particular ones really stand out for Forta/Widows?

Because they're a good all-rounder, it's very flexible. I went for musculature, ion, the heal AoE and assault, although I do use melee hybrid if I need to be a bit more tanky on occasion. Endurance management can be hard on a fortunata, so if you can't bridge the gap with IOs, then using incarnates to help mgojt be a good idea.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Gulbasaur said:

Because they're a good all-rounder, it's very flexible. I went for musculature, ion, the heal AoE and assault, although I do use melee hybrid if I need to be a bit more tanky on occasion. Endurance management can be hard on a fortunata, so if you can't bridge the gap with IOs, then using incarnates to help mgojt be a good idea.

This was pretty much my set of incarnate choices. I actually flip between the T4's in musculature because I generally have Endurance completely under control, so I want more damage boost from Core Musculature. I have noticed that if I am quickly moving between x8 groups, that can be taxing on the Endurance bar.

 

Ion is the preferred interface: It fits visually with my Mu attacks, and it is good about picking off 'wanderers' in the x8 groups.

 

Core Rebirth for Destiny provides the second (first is Unrelenting) self-heal in my build. My build already has pretty good regen, so I'd rather get the max HP boost as well. Despite the timer/recharge I usually hold this back as a heal only.

 

My standard Lore choice is Longbow as they seem to contribute the best to the types of content I run solo (that I want extra help with). For me this is usually farming the last mission of the Heather Townshend arc.

 

I never know what to do with Interface. I have several built up, but I think I'm running Degenerative Core Flawless for the -MaxHP. I have Diamagnetic but it felt like I wasn't really getting that much from it. I will probably play with Gravitic to see if attack times speed up.

[Ozgamer69]

Mine is a pretty much pure melee build, maxed for regen. The character is very tough, can solo most things and with incarnate powers is very capable.

 

Two ranged attacks plus the incarnate ranged attack, several heavy duty melee attacks, incluidg two area effect attacks, a ton of toggles running to boost accuracy / defence / offence, Mind Link.

 

I'm probably biased as my Widow is my main, played her more than any other toon, leveled her to 50 , then started on the incarnate,, she is now level 4 in all slots, so she can handle almost anything except AVs quickly. She can usually wear AVs down in the long run, as long as she survives their signature uber-hits. If she does she regens back into the fight and I have the incarnate heal for backup.