Incarnate Power glitch

[Snarky]

Was in game last night and someone in Help asked if the incarnate power was glitched. Someone else responded the radials have a glitch but the cores are fine

 

i was busy at the time and so did not get more info. Incarnate ability, Specific power, etc

 

Can anyone shed light on this topic?

 

thanks

[Lazarillo]

Not a glitch precisely, but there's as an oversight/unintended limitation with Interface procs that include a DoT component.  The DoT is programmed to "stop" if you miss your enemy, but the % chance for the DoT not triggering also counts as a "miss".  This means the chances of the DoT kicking in are lower than they appear, and get lower for every tick.  For an example, let's say you're using the a Very Rare tier Reactive Interface.

 

If you use the Radial:

You have a 75% chance for the first DoT to tick., a 75% chance of a 75% chance for the second (about 56%), then likewise 42% for the 3rd tick, 31% for the final tick.  The -Res will have a 25% chance to kick in as long as the first tick happens so it's actually around an 18% chance.

 

If you use the Core:

You have a 75% chance for the -Res to tick, but connected to the math above, only an 18% chance for the first DoT.  And then a 4% chance for the second tick, a 1% chance for the 3rd tick, and a less than 1% chance for all four damage ticks.

 

Thus, the DoT component is basically nil for those sorts of Interface powers, if you go for Core, and can get even worse when you look at the Interface options that apply a DoT and a control effect.  It's not a bug, because, strictly speaking, it's doing what it's meant to do, which is "not dealing damage when the hit roll fails".  But it makes the power description quite misleading.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Lazarillo

[Snarky]

So it appears that all the damage Interface are DoT and none are front loaded. Is that right?

[Bill Z Bubba]

Well that kinda sucks.

[Bopper]

On 2/6/2020 at 8:22 AM, Lazarillo said:

Not a glitch precisely, but there's as an oversight/unintended limitation with Interface procs that include a DoT component.  The DoT is programmed to "stop" if you miss your enemy, but the % chance for the DoT not triggering also counts as a "miss".  This means the chances of the DoT kicking in are lower than they appear, and get lower for every tick.  For an example, let's say you're using the a Very Rare tier Reactive Interface.

 

If you use the Radial:

You have a 75% chance for the first DoT to tick., a 75% chance of a 75% chance for the second (about 56%), then likewise 42% for the 3rd tick, 31% for the final tick.  The -Res will have a 25% chance to kick in as long as the first tick happens so it's actually around an 18% chance.

 

If you use the Core:

You have a 75% chance for the -Res to tick, but connected to the math above, only an 18% chance for the first DoT.  And then a 4% chance for the second tick, a 1% chance for the 3rd tick, and a less than 1% chance for all four damage ticks.

 

Thus, the DoT component is basically nil for those sorts of Interface powers, if you go for Core, and can get even worse when you look at the Interface options that apply a DoT and a control effect.  It's not a bug, because, strictly speaking, it's doing what it's meant to do, which is "not dealing damage when the hit roll fails".  But it makes the power description quite misleading.

Can you reference where this discovery was made? I'm aware of each DoT tick as having a 75% (or 25%) chance at ticking, and if a tick misses the chain dies. I've never seen anything that suggests the DoT and -Res are both checked together, I assumed they're independent. For example, 75% DoT and 25% -Res should work such that if an attack hits, the enemy has a -25% chance to have a -Res debuff applied and also the enemy has a 75% chance a damage is taken on the 1st tick, 56.25% of a 2nd tick is hit, 42.19% of a 3rd tick hitting, 31.64% of a 4th tick, and a 23.73% chance a 5th tick hits.

 

If it's working as how you're describing it, then it certainly is a bug. Otherwise, we would rather have the T3 versions of the power that dont offer the other component.

[Apparition]

2 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Can you reference where this discovery was made? I'm aware of each DoT tick as having a 75% (or 25%) chance at ticking, and if a tick misses the chain dies. I've never seen anything that suggests the DoT and -Res are both checked together, I assumed they're independent. For example, 75% DoT and 25% -Res should work such that if an attack hits, the enemy has a -25% chance to have a -Res debuff applied and also the enemy has a 75% chance a damage is taken on the 1st tick, 56.25% of a 2nd tick is hit, 42.19% of a 3rd tick hitting, 31.64% of a 4th tick, and a 23.73% chance a 5th tick hits.

 

If it's working as how you're describing it, then it certainly is a bug. Otherwise, we would rather have the T3 versions of the power that dont offer the other component.

 

You are better off taking the T3 versions of Radial Interfaces with a DoT component.  On my characters, I have a Tier 4 Degenerative Core Interface (when solo), and a Tier 3 Reactive Radial Interface (when teaming).  I've tested the Tier 3 Reactive Radial Interface vs the Tier 4 Reactive Radial Interface, and the DoT triggers much more often on the Tier 3.

[Lazarillo]

2 hours ago, Snarky said:

So it appears that all the damage Interface are DoT and none are front loaded. Is that right?

That is correct.  I assume it's to ensure that the damage components have the same "stacking" limitation as the debuffs and control effects do (one-and-done damage effects couldn't be limited the same way and thus I'd imagine would get exponentially more damaging on teams).

 

5 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Can you reference where this discovery was made?

Sorry, I don't have it handy, and it could be that what I read is wrong, too.  I try to keep abreast of these things, but admit I don't have the patience to notate things 10k times to judge percentages and such, nor the the tech savvy to go datamining, so I could be misinformed.  If so, my sincere apologies.

[Bopper]

5 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

You are better off taking the T3 versions of Radial Interfaces with a DoT component.  On my characters, I have a Tier 4 Degenerative Core Interface (when solo), and a Tier 3 Reactive Radial Interface (when teaming).  I've tested the Tier 3 Reactive Radial Interface vs the Tier 4 Reactive Radial Interface, and the DoT triggers much more often on the Tier 3.

Fascinating. Luckily enough, Interface was the last thing I needed to make T4. I'm glad I didn't invest.

[Bopper]

 

@Captain Powerhousehave you ever looked into this? There's no dispute about the cancel on miss, but the fact (if true) the cancel on miss probabilities are jointly combined with the other interface proc elements would seem like a bug, otherwise a T4 is less useful than a T3.