Phase Shift

[Icecomet]

Hello everybody.

 

I would like to see phase shift rolled back to how it was originally, without a 30 second timeout.  Nobody liked this change when it was introduced and I still don't like it and now that we (i.e. the public) have dominion over the game, I'd really like to see this change.

 

I personally see no detriments to this change, not even in PvP because while you are invulnerable (as long as you have endurance), you can't attack anybody or anything else, so, I don't see any issues for PvP and it is a public power pool, so EVERYBODY has access to it if they are willing to invest in this line of powers.  On a side note, maybe it'd be a neat change where 2 people in phase shift could fight?  I seem to remember this was possible or something, but that part of my memory is foggy so I won't swear to it...

 

This is something I am very passionate about and have been since the change was made way back in I6 (iirc).  Thanks for taking the suggestion and I really do appreciate everything you guys are doing to keep CoH alive and well!

 

Best regards,

 

Icecomet

 

[Blackfeather]

Considering that Personal Force Field works in the same way, I can certainly see this reasoning making sense. That being said, I think removing or shortening the NoPhase period of similar status effects would be nicer - not being able to activate these kinds of powers for two whole minutes sounds kind of excessive.

[Outrider_01]

8 hours ago, Icecomet said:

not even in PvP because while you are invulnerable

Escape tool? Unless the animation is long, why would anyone take it aside that.

[SeraphimKensai]

The technique used to be to stun them before they became phased, there was a little window to do so and it would drop the toggle.

 

Since toggles typically don't drop unless they are offensive powers now, I'm not sure how that would work if at all.

[Trickshooter]

8 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

Considering that Personal Force Field works in the same way, I can certainly see this reasoning making sense.

Well, you can still be hit through PFF, you just can't fight back.

 

Mechanically they really don't work anything like each other. Phase Shift grants mag 3 Intangible, which makes you completely invulnerable and unable to affect anything else except those who are also Intangible. PFF grants a high amount defense and resistance, and mag 100 OnlyAffectSelf, which prevents you from affecting anything except yourself, but other people can affect you (if they can get through your defense).

[Replacement]

I'm sure this belongs in a larger discussion about making some asynchronous travel powers (instead of all being level 4/ no prereqs/ no combat benefit), but I would not only like to see Phase Shift lose the 30 seconds  limit -- I'd go a step further and give it a move speed and jump buff (more jump height than jump speed, so you get the "low gravity/floaty" effect).

 

Suggestion: If too powerful, also give it a -50 Max Endurance debuff while active.  This would halve your Recovery and make you more susceptible to dropping the toggle.

[Troo]

I'm okay either way.

 

There is a decent investment to get phase shift and it should work as intended.

Keeping the activation time as short as possible for an 'oh shoot' power would seem paramount.

I am totally in favor of using phase to attack a phased target (Carnival of Shadows or pvp).

 

All that said, continuous cycling of intangible and/or untouchable powers should not be possible. If a character uses phase shift there should be a gap between activations that cannot be overcome even with assistance.

Sure use hibernate & have phase shift available back to back. But not hibernate, phase shift, hibernate (or similar) without some type of interruption.

[Icecomet]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

I'm okay either way.

 

There is a decent investment to get phase shift and it should work as intended.

Keeping the activation time as short as possible for an 'oh shoot' power would seem paramount.

I am totally in favor of using phase to attack a phased target (Carnival of Shadows or pvp).

 

All that said, continuous cycling of intangible and/or untouchable powers should not be possible. If a character uses phase shift there should be a gap between activations that cannot be overcome even with assistance.

Sure use hibernate & have phase shift available back to back. But not hibernate, phase shift, hibernate (or similar) without some type of interruption.

 

Yes, maybe that was it, I seem to remember I could also shift and then I was able to attack Carnies?  Such a small part of my blasters life, I just can't seem to remember that minor nuance...  😞

 

Anyway, thanks gang for the support, again, my own personal desires would be to see a lot of the major nerfs that we suffered throughout the NCSoft lifecycle be rolled back as it was intended.  I have some other suggestions I'll be putting up in time, just have to do my homework on them first...

 

Cheers,

 

Icecomet

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Icecomet

[macskull]

12 hours ago, Icecomet said:

I personally see no detriments to this change, not even in PvP because while you are invulnerable (as long as you have endurance), you can't attack anybody or anything else, so, I don't see any issues for PvP and it is a public power pool, so EVERYBODY has access to it if they are willing to invest in this line of powers.  On a side note, maybe it'd be a neat change where 2 people in phase shift could fight?

 

It's been this way (the bit I bolded) for a long time.

[Gorgar]

I'd love to have old Phase Shift back.  Also, the graphics for it are really cool.

[shd0807]

Any dev thoughts on returning this issue to it's originally created state?

 

 

[Call Me Awesome]

I remember this power being fairly unpopular in the old days because it was so situational and only useful in very limited cases.  As with many nerfs the root cause was the Dev's desire to graft PvP into a previously exclusively PvE game and finding many powers don't work well for that.  I'm not sure the original Devs ever really accepted that PvP wasn't something the vast majority of players had any interest in.

[Redlynne]

The real solution is to turn Phase Shift into a toggle power akin to Dimension Shift in Gravity (except Self Only instead of a Location AoE).  Point being that while Phased you can attack and be attacked by others who are ALSO Phased (so it's not a "total invulnerability" power).

 

After that I'd drop the recharge time down to something REASONABLE ... like 30s ... and eliminate the auto-shutoff on the toggle.  Everything else flows from there.

[ABlueThingy]

Sooo, bit of a tangent.

 

as I recall...

 

The mechanics of an Intangible power are related to the mag.  It actually sets you into a phase where you can only attack people at the same magnitude of intangible you are(and lower I think?)

 

So if a player hits PS and went Mag 3 Intang then no NPCs could touch them unless they were ALSO Mag 3 intang.  The only time this came up, if I recall, was the Carnies.  This is also how that one Grav power works, it grants everyone the same mag Intang.  But it also leaves room for multiple levels of this where you use the one AoE Grav power(I want to say Dimention Shift?) and Phase Shift and the mag should stack. I dunno if they changed it since.

 

I believe this is all still mostly true. I think this was flattened out so everything is the same mag back when they removed Intang enh. But when they were in the game you could slot your Intang so you'd be MORE intangible then other people.  It always felt like they intended to do more with that?

 

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by ABlueThingy

[Redlynne]

47 minutes ago, ABlueThingy said:

I think this was flattened out so everything is the same mag back when they removed Intang enh. But when they were in the game you could slot your Intang so you'd be MORE intangible then other people.  It always felt like they intended to do more with that?

I actually played a Grav/TA Controller when Intangible Enhancements existed in the game.  They did indeed increase the MAG of the Intangible power.  At MAG 3 you could affect Lieutenants but not Bosses at +0 (needed MAG 3.1 for +0 Bosses), so you could potentially use the MAG as a "rank filter" for the Intangible effect so as to "defer" dealing with the Minions/Lieutenants until after the Bosses were defeated.  It also made a difference when fighting Lord Recluse on the Statesman Task Force, because with Intangibility enhancement(s) slotted into Dimension Shift you could phase shift the pylons and DENY their buff to Lord Recluse.  So you could Dimension Shift one plyon and take down a different pylon at the same time, but only if you'd slotted "enough" Intangibility enhancement(s) into the power.

[macskull]

11 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

I remember this power being fairly unpopular in the old days because it was so situational and only useful in very limited cases.  As with many nerfs the root cause was the Dev's desire to graft PvP into a previously exclusively PvE game and finding many powers don't work well for that.  I'm not sure the original Devs ever really accepted that PvP wasn't something the vast majority of players had any interest in.

If this was really a PvP concern they would've returned it back to its original state as soon as they were able to separate out PvE and PvP effects on powers. The "blame it on PvP because it wasn't originally in the game" argument is tired and incorrect - it was stated from the beginning that this game would have PvP and the game had PvP for 7 years of its original 8.5-year run (so really, it's had PvP for 15 of the last 16 years).

2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

The real solution is to turn Phase Shift into a toggle power akin to Dimension Shift in Gravity (except Self Only instead of a Location AoE).  Point being that while Phased you can attack and be attacked by others who are ALSO Phased (so it's not a "total invulnerability" power).

 

After that I'd drop the recharge time down to something REASONABLE ... like 30s ... and eliminate the auto-shutoff on the toggle.  Everything else flows from there.

Phase Shift has worked the way you describe since 2009 or so. I think the auto-shutoff and long recharge are fine but the "nophase" power needs to go away.

Edited March 18, 2020 by macskull

[Icecomet]

Again, I don't see an issue with returning it to the way it was, it is a pool available to EVERYBODY and it requires a 3 power investment to get.  I am fine with making it so others in phase shift could attack you or just leaving it as an "only affecting self" power like it was originally.

 

Thanks all for the input, this is something i am passionate about though...

 

Icecomet