Focused Feedback: Shock Therapy (Build 1)

[Yoru-hime]

I've tried playing this alone for a while on a level 22 Defender kitted out with +3 SOs. Wow... This makes Empathy look solo-friendly. I took my primary off my bars for half a mission and it made no notable difference to kill time or survivability. I'll test more if this becomes more functional solo, but this was definitely not an enjoyable powerset to play without a team.

[VileTerror]

I am going to echo the desire to see the name of the set changed to "Surge Protection."
It's kind of schlocky and playful, which I think it a good thing.  It gets the point across too on what the set has to offer.
 
Also going to say, that playing the set for about an hour now . . . it's very click-heavy.  I'll agree with the assessment that Faraday Cage would be a good candidate for PBAoE Toggle'ification.

[DMW45]

8 minutes ago, VileTerror said:

I am going to echo the desire to see the name of the set changed to "Surge Protection."
It's kind of schlocky and playful, which I think it a good thing.  It gets the point across too on what the set has to offer.
 
Also going to say, that playing the set for about an hour now . . . it's very click-heavy.  I'll agree with the assessment that Faraday Cage would be a good candidate for PBAoE Toggle'ification.

Honestly, I'll probably turn it into a PBAoE with a macro--I rather hate dealing with Ground Targetted AoEs on a controller gamepad

Edited February 26, 2020 by DMW45

[Super Atom]

This set is kind of underwhelming. It isn't terribly strong. Soloing looks like it's gonna be tragic because of the lack of effecting yourself and need for ally.

 

The first step here is making the chains effect you. I think that is probably the most important change that could be made to this set. From there i think -end as a debuff needs to be re-looked at. Something happening when they hit 0 endurance would be nice. A self reapplying sleep debuff or a stun maybe. (could also apply to players make it more dangerous to 0 end)

[Frosticus]

Kudos on the new set. I would consider trying it on a MM or multi pet controller, otherwise I can't really play a pure support role myself. But for those that like that role, it is welcome.

 

+static is named blood frenzy in the combat log.

faraday cage is a 2s activate period? maybe it could be faster because if you leave it and re-enter it can take quite awhile for the protection to enable.

 

+static stacks seem to last quite long, so it should be easy to get it chaining well in team play.

[Bossk_Hogg]

1 hour ago, DMW45 said:

Honestly, I'll probably turn it into a PBAoE with a macro--I rather hate dealing with Ground Targetted AoEs on a controller gamepad

Its not ground targeted. It's just is a point blank drop.

[DMW45]

Oh, nice.

[VileTerror]

Faraday Cage doesn't appear to be giving the appropriate amount of Resist:

[Bossk_Hogg]

2 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

I agree with you.

 

Complete mezz protection on a squishy is extremely nice. This power Recharges in 32 seconds. With just SOs you can get that to 16, and on an end game build, around 7.

 

I really like the design. It stands out noticeably from other sources of mezz protection and is a great signature kind of power. Not to mention, this is the only set that offers anything close to that level of mezz protection.

That's still just tedious setup every single fight. Two seconds to apply mez protection. Then two seconds to apply a single target damage debuff. Then two more seconds to drop the rest of the spawn's damage by 20%, then spam heal. Dont forget to try and keep a 25 second buff up! Its far too busy a set, so going to be hard to get blasts in. The spammy nature, to me, is a negative play experience. I thought scutwork like this was why they made many short duration buffs ae (bubbles, shields, speed boost).

 

Sonic, Forcefield, and Traps all have self-mez protection as well.  I'm cool with a drop AE effect, but a resist/mez protection doesnt seem the right spot for it. That's something you want to have applied proactively.

[DMW45]

Yeah, personally, I think they should double the duration/cooldowns on each of the chain powers.

 

Thinking as an MM, it'd be a little hectic to try to herd those while trying to cast several buffs every few seconds.

[CorvusPA]

About names.  Folks, if you aren't personally offended or traumatized by a word or term, that doesn't give you the right to tell people who may have suffered genuine trauma that they shouldn't be affected - and has that kind of response ever actually worked on anyone in history?. If you aren't aware of why people might be hurt by a certain term (as I wasn't until reading this thread), the best response is probably to treat it as a learning opportunity.

 

Electrotherapy seems to be the catch-all term for the use of electricity in medicine.  Seems like a decent option here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrotherapy

 

The scaling health on the rez scares me, slightly, as a player of Dark Miasma from the early days when Howling Twilight had a mechanic something like that. It will need to have a decent base of health at minimal levels. Debt isn't really a thing anymore, but no one enjoys a quick double-team wipe.

[csr]

1 hour ago, VileTerror said:

Faraday Cage doesn't appear to be giving the appropriate amount of Resist:

Yep, the pseudo-pet doing the buffing doesn't appear to be inheriting Resist enhancement.

[oedipus_tex]

I've had some more time to play test the set now. It's an interesting set so I hope my comments aren't too critical. I appreciate the time that went into designing it.

 

 

With SOs at level 32 I'm finding I actually am able to do some decent endurance draining between Shock and Discharge against even level mobs.

 

 

Where the problem comes in is the "Why?" portion. To compare this set to Electric Blast or Electric Control, most of the powers in those sets do endurance drain and also do damage. Kinetics also has a -Endurance power which provides very strong additional secondary effects.

 

Don't get me wrong. The extremely long -Recovery debuff is very nice and not present in any other power I can think of. But it's not really a reason to cast this power by itself. The -Damage is also nice but again not a major reason to cast this power. 

 

 

One idea would be to make Shock not a single cast power as it is now, but instead a toggle that constantly drained endurance, and with each pulse granted Static to you. That would eliminate this set's animation time woes and still give the player ways to build Static. When I was fighting Freakshow bosses it was taking 3 or 4 casts to drain their endurance, eating up 8-10 seconds of animation time when I could just blast them. If it were a toggle I'd drop it on the baddest enemy and just let it run, knowing I was building Static and he'd soon be out of endurance while I did other things.

Edited February 26, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[csr]

In playing a bit more I noticed that Shock seems to miss the target, sizzling past their ear rather than hitting them (this was against Warriors).

Edited February 26, 2020 by csr

[Haijinx]

Sounds like a decent synergy with a set that drains END already at least?

[Auroxis]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

Sounds like a decent synergy with a set that drains END already at least?

That would be fine if the set offered respectable offensive support, but at its current state it's almost fully around protecting your team and endurance drain just does more of it. If you want to protect your team with endurance drains, there are classes that do that while not feeling like a paperweight if your team is doing well on the defensive end.

[Vea]

T1:

Probably biased here but –DMG and –END/Recov doesn’t feel like team changing debuffs. The cast time feels long for PvE and maybe should be similar to that of Corrosive Enzymes (but would probably need PvP alignment if it turned to a 1s cast time).

I would personally skip this, so it’s a bit annoying that I would be required to take it on every other AT if it ports over.

T2:

I like this heal, I like the random chain element. It seems fast and key for building static.

T3:

See T1.

T4:

The +DMG is nice. Its up often +special is a unique buff too. Key power to build static.

T5:

This appears to be a situational power for the longer fights to help with mez protection. I like this power, but wouldn’t invest too much into it. I can see this being super useful against Director 11 in Tin Mage, especially when the sappers turn up.

T6:

I love absorb shields. Doesn’t seem as powerful as Wild Bastion but seems to be more consistent and forgiven if people aren’t in radius.

T7:

I don’t like this power in theory and it would be hard to test. The Chain element and static powers seem to be the main hindrance. A comparable power to this is howling twilight, just howling twilight is significantly better and more consistent.

T8:

+End, nice in lower levels but I don’t see this being much use when you are able to finally pick it.

T9:

A unique power, I haven’t tested the proc element. +special is cool again, but considering we already have it in the T4 seems repetitive. The +recharge seems too weak especially with max static.

Overall conclusion:

“Shock Therapy is a hybrid buff/heal/debuff set with a primary focus on buffs.” – Jimmy. With this in mind there are currently power sets that seem to be leagues beyond this currently. First, the buff element, Kinetics provides +recovery and +50% recharge and has the capability to cap damage buffs and is able to do this significantly quicker than that of shock therapy. Secondly, the hybrid element is something akin to Nature Affinity, comparing the two sets there are similarities where the edge I would say goes to Nature in the end-game (less so in content from level 1-40). Overgrowth being the edge. I think the lack of –regen and –resistance will make it hard to convince min/maxers. I’d recommend –special (similar to weaken) in some of the debuffs would make it a better set without being OP, it could be in the T1 or T4 and goes with the theme of the buffs/debuffs currently in the set.

T1:

Probably biased here but –DMG and –END/Recov doesn’t feel like team changing debuffs. The cast time feels long for PvE and maybe should be similar to that of Corrosive Enzymes (but would probably need PvP alignment if it turned to a 1s cast time).

I would personally skip this, so it’s a bit annoying that I would be required to take it on every other AT if it ports over.

T2:

I like this heal, I like the random chain element. It seems fast and key for building static.

T3:

See T1.

T4:

The +DMG is nice. Its up often +special is a unique buff too. Key power to build static.

T5:

This appears to be a situational power for the longer fights to help with mez protection. I like this power, but wouldn’t invest too much into it. I can see this being super useful against Director 11 in Tin Mage, especially when the sappers turn up.

T6:

I love absorb shields. Doesn’t seem as powerful as Wild Bastion but seems to be more consistent and forgiven if people aren’t in radius.

T7:

I don’t like this power in theory and it would be hard to test. The Chain element and static powers seem to be the main hindrance. A comparable power to this is howling twilight, just howling twilight is significantly better and more consistent.

T8:

+End, nice in lower levels but I don’t see this being much use when you are able to finally pick it.

T9:

A unique power, I haven’t tested the proc element. +special is cool again, but considering we already have it in the T4 seems repetitive. The +recharge seems too weak especially with max static. An extra 20-30% recharge would maybe make it better or make this a chain ability or a small radius AoE buff.

Overall conclusion:

“Shock Therapy is a hybrid buff/heal/debuff set with a primary focus on buffs.” – @Jimmy With this in mind there are currently power sets that seem to be leagues beyond this currently. First, the buff element, Kinetics provides +recovery and +50% recharge and has the capability to cap damage buffs and is able to do this significantly quicker than that of shock therapy. Secondly, the hybrid element is something akin to Nature Affinity, comparing the two sets there are similarities where the edge I would say goes to Nature in the end-game (less so in content from level 1-40). Overgrowth being the edge. I think the lack of –regen and –resistance will make it hard to convince min/maxers. I’d recommend –special (similar to weaken) in some of the debuffs would make it a better set without being OP, it could be in the T1 or T4 and goes with the theme of the buffs/debuffs currently in the set.

[Vea]

18 hours ago, Jimmy said:

The name of the set

We appreciate the concern here and are actively monitoring the feedback. We're going to discuss this internally and will update you when a conclusion has been reached. 

 

11 hours ago, Jimmy said:

I think the conversation regarding the name has run its course. We understand the concerns and will be discussing this internally, but for now I'd like to avoid further discussion in the thread as it's becoming a bit too heated and is clouding out feedback on the mechanics of the set.

 

If you wish to echo the thoughts of any posts already made, please feel free to use the reaction system 🙂

That's twice he's asked now, maybe another time in previous thread.

 

There's is nothing new being added to the discussion of the name. Please stop or this thread will be locked or actual feedback will be buried.

 

@oedipus_tex @Auroxis and a tiny fraction have actually posted something that may be of use to Devs. Please I urge everyone to only post if they've logged into the beta and played this powerset or have done some sort of testing on it. 

 

Looking at feedback on Discord it looks like this powerset will be a nice addition to PvP but PvE looks weak.

[Alchemystic]

So far from a user standpoint the powers seem quite easy to identify, but as a recipient I find if hard to distinguish which power has been cast on me.

 

I think there should perhaps be some visual changes to the FX on some of the buff powers to make them easier to identify, perhaps using some of the unique visuals from Electric Control/Armor?

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Tyrannical

[0th Power]

14 hours ago, GM Cyclone said:

 I just yank mobs out of walls for people.

My new hero's name shall be "Wall Yanker."

 

As far as the set, it looks interesting.  I am really digging the 2 +special powers.  It makes for some interesting controller superteam possibilities when its ported to controllers.  The location mez protection seems off, i would be worried how useful it will be.

Edited February 26, 2020 by 0th Power

[Alchemystic]

Another thing I will comment is the missed opportunity for a 'Special vs Robots' effect that is present in many other electric themed powersets.

 

Perhaps by combining the effects of 'Empowering Circuit' and 'Energizing Circuit' into a single power we could potentially implement an 'EMP' power of some variety as the T9 power.

 

Having the two 'circuit' powers above merge into one power also reduces the amount of chain powers in the set, which I think is something of an overplayed theme in this powerset. I know it's a fun niche mechanic but there's a little too much of it in this powerset I think, so some dependable AoE powers would be quite welcome, especially if it's a mez power of some sort.

 

EDIT: I would perhaps use the EMP power from Blaster/Mastermind Electric Mastery. In turn, that power should be removed from Masterminds (Either in this powerset or the ancillary) and replaced with Thunder Clap.

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Tyrannical

[Bartacus]

21 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Lack of offensive power

Shock Therapy is a hybrid buff/heal/debuff set with a primary focus on buffs. At this time we don't feel additional offensive / debuff power is warranted beyond what the set currently has (+damage on Empowering Circuit, -end on Shock, Discharge and Amp Up and -damage on Shock and Discharge).

 

why is -end considered part of the power budget? -end is not generally a useful debuff, especially on harder targets since they have resistance to this. To me, -end is mainly thematic but should not be part of the overall budget of power in this set. I may feel differently when the new IOs go live and I can play with those on my electric blast defender, but I've never felt like the -end on his abilities were in any way useful.

[ScarySai]

19 minutes ago, Bartacus said:

why is -end considered part of the power budget? -end is not generally a useful debuff, especially on harder targets since they have resistance to this. To me, -end is mainly thematic but should not be part of the overall budget of power in this set. I may feel differently when the new IOs go live and I can play with those on my electric blast defender, but I've never felt like the -end on his abilities were in any way useful.

Probably because it sounds better on paper than it actually is.

[Trickshooter]

22 hours ago, Bartacus said:

why is -end considered part of the power budget? -end is not generally a useful debuff, especially on harder targets since they have resistance to this. To me, -end is mainly thematic but should not be part of the overall budget of power in this set. I may feel differently when the new IOs go live and I can play with those on my electric blast defender, but I've never felt like the -end on his abilities were in any way useful.

That's the thing about Endurance Drain. If you can't drain all endurance, the effect is pretty much wasted most of the time.

 

With most other effects, you can quantify how much of an effect it will have in combat. Even a 1% ToHit debuff, on average, will reduce the number of hits you take by 2%.

 

But taking an enemy from 100 endurance to 40 endurance? That does absolutely nothing unless they had this ultra powerful attack that costs 41 endurance or more.

 

In order for this set to really succeed at making Endurance Drain part of it's kit, I think it needs to do more of it, and it needs more sources of -Recovery.

 

Off the top of my head, I would suggest:

 

1) Make Shock a cone to spread -Recovery around more efficiently.

2) Make Defibrillate a PBAoE that can be used without targeting a fallen ally. For any allies in range (including the caster!), both dead or alive, a pseudopet is created at their feet that radiate an AoE Endurance Drain and -Recovery on nearby foes. Fallen allies are revived with more health/endurance based on the stacks of Static, while living allies (again, including the caster) receive Endurance and/or Recovery based on the stacks of Static.

3) Change Energizing Chain to a foe-targeted, Endurance Draining chain + some other debuff, maybe a -Special since that also seems to be a theme of this set.

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Trickshooter

[Bossk_Hogg]

9 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Sounds like a decent synergy with a set that drains END already at least?

Sets need to stand on their own, not require a specific secondary/primary to function well. Dark Miasma doesnt need to be paired with Dark Blast to floor to-hit. It's one of the reasons elec blast continues to be mediocre. It mostly works with Elec Manipulation, so people excuse its low damage and weak in-set secondary.