Inv or Bio??

[StoneColdJoker]

I have a Bio/Dark tank that I’ve had for awhile (only 13 though). But I keep wondering if I should have gone with Invulnerability instead for pure survivability.
 

Anyone have experience with both that can weigh in? I plan on doing all PVE with him but just want him to be a beast at taking damage. 

[Call Me Awesome]

Well, I'm not that familiar with Bio but Invuln can be built to the point that only Stone can exceed it's durability.  Soft cap your defenses, 90% S/L resistance, over 50% to all other types, and you have Dull Pain as a HP boost/emergency heal on tap.  There's very little in the game that can threaten a well built Invuln tanker, and it's good from the early game getting it's core abilities by 18.

 

Another good option is Shield... it can get really good as well and it has Shield Charge and a damage boosting power in Against All Odds.

[Xandyr]

I have a bio/rad tank (vet level 85). Bio is STOUT, especially if you stay in Defensive. I typically stay in Offensive, and can tank just about anything thrown at me. You can get soft capped defenses, and more regen than a Regen scrapper. My base regen ,in offensive, is 59 hp/sec. With Parasitic Aura, Ablative, and DNA Siphon, I average about 197 hp/sec, and have hit 238 hp/sec. 

 The only downfalls are defense debuffs and -Regen. Then, when fighting enemies that have either, you actually have to pay attention to your health. That's the only time I look at my health bar, and the only time I'm ready to pop any inspirations. 

 Cimeroreans in the ITF have defense debuffs. I can go to one of the towers and clear it without inspirations, but I keep my eye on my health and my finger on my inspiration tray just in case. (And this is while in Offensive).

   Both Bio and Invuln are good. Can't go wrong with either.  I like Bio for the versatility of it ( want more HP, defense, and resists? Switch to Defensive.  Want more damage? Switch to Offensive. ) 

   As with any, a lot depends on HOW you build it. A buddy of mine has a Rad tank, as well as I do. Same armor, but built totally different. He slotted for more recharge and damage, while I slotted for more defense/resists/HP. So, on paper (or in Mids), my tank may be "better", but his is awesome as well (and neither of us ever faceplant). 

[Zeraphia]

Here's what I'll tell you about these sets:

 

-Invul: It makes you just indestructible. No ifs and or buts about this one. This is the closest thing to stone without the horrific -movement and constant TPing in caves you'll come. This set does not in any way shape or form not deliver in its extraordinary ability to tank damage. It does not deliver ANYTHING to you at all in the form of helping you kill enemies whatsoever so bare that one in mind. Not as much here as the others because this set is fairly straight forward, excellent resistances when built well and extremely good DDR with high defenses and high HP, it is flawless at what it does, the only drawback is Psionic damage but Psionic isn't the most "scary" damage type to me to have a hole to, even that can be a 60% hole when slotted properly.

 

-Bio: I find Bio to be better to "enhance" a damage secondary (I absolutely ADORE this set for Scrappers/Stalkers) and it works well for Tankers too. It is not my absolute favorite, but it is extremely strong in what it does. TW/Bio or Bio/TW no matter what you roll it on, will always tank extremely well, you can deal with the cimmies with ease because of defensive sweep being able to stack ~4-5 times, two slot this power and you'll be well over 100% defense to melee making cimmies just utterly pathetic. You're extremely durable but at a cost, it is a VERY active primary for a Tanker moreso than any other AT, because other ATs typically aren't going to run straight into mobs and be expected to keep constant agro like the Tanker. This said, you maintain agro very well and your regen will go through the roof, you won't have a specific "hole" (sans psi damage) because of the huge amount of either resistance/defense you will have to that specific damage type in addition to the excellent heals/regen. I may be talking a lot more about this primary than Invul, and it may come off as better, but that is purely because Bio can come off as very 'watery" and "not tanky" if built wrong, it has a lot more mechanics than Invul, and is much more complex to manage. This is an excellent primary, but you have to "work" to make it shine and you have to be a little active with it, but this can very easily appeal to you if you like clicking and love all the silly tricks you can do (the "scariest" thing for this one is IMO +4 IDF with extremely high to hit and its defenses getting kind of "bypassed" along with its energy damage which is one of bio's unfortunate holes).

 

I'm going to throw in one I think is a mixture (helping with clearing spawns and being extremely durable) and can be "better" in some specific cases:
-Rad Armor (specifically with TW): you can get resistances capped to just about everything but cold once you have built this. It has the toolkit of good regen/recovery (helps TW), an absorb to make you feel like you're not taking any damage, and the biggest draw to me is that your heal and the T8 can be proc-monstered into hits that are AOEs dishing out 300-500 damage, for a tanker this is HUGE. It wont get quite the regen bio has, but it will resistance cap all the damage you'll need that Bio can't. If you take TW with this combination, it suddenly just becomes an outright spawn nuking mob-to-mob Scrapper hybrid, and you're quite the master of the ITF given that you can just defensive sweep up to 4x and get your melee defenses so high those poor cimmies just can't chew through you. Not the easiest to level up but once you're 50 I feel this one has become an all-time favorite for every single activity in the game. Solos GM's, spawn nukes, extraordinarily durable, tanks incarnate stuff like an absolute champ and provides excellent damage mitigation to all teammates via TW's disgusting continuous KD's.

 

Why is Shield not mentioned for me as one of the "best" ones?

I gave Shield a try personally (I incarn'd her, I really IO'd her pretty well) and I'm going to be honest, as nice as it is for things like ITF, there is a LOT of autohit in this game (especially late game), and IDF are just not kind to you nor are the actually "challenging" things that made me go back to Rad/Invul/Bio for its enormous resistances/defenses and/or the absorb/regen barrier. It just looks so much better as a Tanker to have an absorb that enemies have to eat through to make it appear like you're just not taking damage. Yes you get Shield Charge, but... crazy enough... I don't love it nearly as much as I love Rad's proc'd out heal and Ground Zero, I also feel as if those two are more damaging. This may just be a "me" thing, as I see several people who outright love their Shielders, and I say more power to them and we're probably equally right for our own opinions, but I don't think Shield is quite as strong as the 3 before sans Bio in some specific cases with heavy defense debuffs/auto hits.

Edited March 2, 2020 by 33053222

[Purrfekshawn]

l'd say Resistance-based sets (Radiation Armor, Electric Armor, Dark Armor) are better work for Tankers/Brutes (because of 90% resist cap), while Defense-based (Super Reflexes, Shield Defense, Willpower) etc. better work for Scrappers/Stalkers (especially Stalkers because of their interruptable power). lnvulnerability and Bio-Armor have combination of Defense/Resistance, so may work good for both.

 

Bio-Armor seems to be more upgraded & adaptable because of its form change (defensive/offensive/efficient) and some AoE damage dealing powers. Also better END drain resist. Another matter though how it would match your toon's Theme. For be Theme is everything, and l'd never take any power/powerset that doesn't make sense for any of mah toons.

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Purrfekshawn

[Gauntlet_Prime]

So I have a couple brutes in the upper 40s with minimal IOs in them.  One is /Rad the other is /Bio.  I think /Rad is the more active one unless you get really min/maxy on the Efficiency/Defensive/Offensive Bio toggles.  Bio feels more forgiving to me in terms of play-style because it offers the ability to go Offensive when I am just soloing for badges or arc completion etc while I can go Defensive and feel like a boss whole my Rad just feels like a tanky beast.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, both are monsters.  I just wanted to say that Bio feels like a complete tool box for handling everything very well (in terms of play-styles) while Rad feels like a tanky wall of resists that does it's job among the best in the game.  Both however are VERY competent.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention Inv.  Inv is like vanilla ice cream.  Is it good? Obviously yes.  Can it be made into something more delicious?  Sure add toppings (IOs) and it only gets better.  But in the end it is still vanilla.  Sometimes you want something a bit more complex like rocky road.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Gauntlet_Prime

[oldskool]

Since you've already started the Bio/Dark you may as well keep it.  You should keep it not just for the convenience of avoiding re-rolling but others too.

 

Either option responds well to the IO system and sets.  You can make an extremely durable Invul character regardless of which secondary you take.  Bio Armor can be pretty tough too with its absorb shields, healing, and defensive adaption.  However, Dark Melee helps to offset the mitigation penalties of Offensive Adaptation in Bio Armor a bit with the to-hit debuffs.  Siphon Life and Dark Consumption (name to be changed) can be welcome on either set.

 

Its a good time to be picking up Dark Melee even for the buff to just Shadow Maul on the beta server.  Bio Armor is a flexible set that can give you more damage while Dark Melee helps keep up your defenses. 

[Heraclea]

I have an Invuln tanker (Inv/Dark Melee) and a Bio tanker (Bio/Spines) at level 50.  Both are quite fun to play with all their incarnate and IO stuff, but I suspect that the Bio tanker was a bit more fun to level up. 

 

With Invuln, enhancement task job one, more urgent than hitting any softcap, is to pack as much endurance relief into the build as possible.  That will make your character much more fun to play and enable you to take the lead on teams, since it's a given that you will be sprinting to the next mob. 

 

Bio requires a bit more attention than Invuln; it has more than one trouble buttons and your health will wobble a bit more than with Invuln.  This makes the artificial lag of animation times an issue; there is little more frustrating than pressing a needed self-heal and having it do nothing because you have to watch some animation finish first.  Things like self-heals and inspirations really need to be instant.  That said, when finished Bio can be made as tough as Invuln, and is well suited to a tanker that wants to deal damage. 

 

I could see your Bio/Dark turning into a total beast.  Having self-heals that also do damage and adding the PBAoE of Bio to the single target damage of Dark Melee has a lot of potential. 

[NEW DAWN]

Invulns, been done to death, you'll disappear amongst many Invulns and can only wonder what sets you apart. Bio anything not so much. How do you entertain yourself, how to you keep yourself interested, don't be just another, take that Bio and go tank Ghost Widow for 15 mins without outside assistance with a lvl 50 SO build. You can find anything you want, achieve what you want if you look in all the right places. Invulns, ya trip over them ingame, they're common, they separate themselves by tiny build changes, playstyle etc. 

 

When you tank, can you tank for any team make up,  or will you rely on certain people, certain powersets to get by, there is no trinity in this game, you can eliminate need for suck it and see. The game can be more than a farm, more than a keymash it can be whatever you want it to be and imo Bio well it may have one or two firsts to do whereas other invulns have been there and done that.

 

That's said I wouldn't do safe myself and would do every powerset ingame with relentless altitis.

Edited March 2, 2020 by NEW DAWN

[Heraclea]

There's always going to be a shedload of Invulnerability characters, especially on tankers.  Iconic comic book theme.  Solid performance.  Friendly to any concept and costume.  It's common for many reasons, and you shouldn't back away from it on that basis alone. 

 

On Victory, I set myself a goal of having a level 50 tanker with every armor set primary.  IIRC I succeeded with every power set except Electric, which I was still working on in 2012.

 

In HC I've spread out my interests somewhat between tankers, scrappers, and brutes, as well as the occasional sentinel and stalker,  where the armors are weird and don't count.  It remains my goal to have a level 50 with every armor set.  Only repeats are Willpower (everything but a scrapper) and Radiation (effects not as funky as Bio).  Yet to get started on Energy. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Heraclea

[tellania]

Bio/ or Invul/ ?

Another IMHO ...

 

Pre IO-set:  I find BIO to be more survivable.  Lots of heals, +absorb, great for hami raids. Also, the set is setup to either cap resistance (e.g. SL) or defense (e.g. FC) on the set.

Post IO-set:  I find Invul more survivable, capped defenses (sans psi), and nearly capped E/N/F/C resists.

 

How I measured:

During leveling, I had less problems with Bio/ armor.   More endurance, better solo'ing due to a power that lets me choose an offensive, defensive, or other stance (aka more damage, better defenses, etc).

 

End Game:   Most of the incarnate missions, I could not tell a difference.    RWZ mothership raids:   -regen from the rikti made my bio tank more fragile, needing to jump into the 'safe' middle, to heal up.   While I've been hit hard on an Invul/ tank, the survival time is much longer.     Also, -recharge (though relatively rare), hurt Bio armor, as having more heals, means -recharge can greatly affect them.

I've also tanked on incarnate TF's (antimatter, etc), and the invul tank comes out more durable.

 

But leveling 1-50, Bio/ is more fun and flexible.   Need to tank for a high level team, activate defensive posture.   Solo'ing, go combat posture (forgot the power, sorry).

 

Post 50+ content, I need to pay less attention to the health bar with an Invul/ tank, sans a Hami raid (in which case, Bio works better for me).

 

 

 

[Kabuki]

I find Bio more fun, but definitely more busy than Invuln.

 

I have the requisite Invuln/SS Tanker, and while she is very stout, she is also kinda dull after a while. I have a Bio/Claws Tanker, but that one is still being slotted out, so not a fair assessment.

 

However, I have a DM/Bio Scrapper, and that character is just absurd. The durability and offensive output enabled by the Bio options is kinda nuts. It is certainly a busy set though, you don't have the inherent resistance to anything beyond S/L and Toxic, so you have to pay attention a bit more, however, the side effect of the DM powers being a to hit debuff greatly enhances an already super survivable set. The only time I die on the character is when I get reckless in a solo +4/x8 Dark Astoria Incarnate missions against Banished Pantheon packs, because there can be so many types of damage and debuffs at once.

[StoneColdJoker]

Wow. Amazing info, everybody. A lot to go back over and digest. Looks like I’m keeping him AND doing an Inv/Dark as well lol

[Gobbledigook]

Bio, Rad, invuln, dark etc are all amazing but so is Shield.

 

 90%+DDR for Shield Defence and good resists(especially on a Tanker) is pretty nice. Not a lot gets through.

[Herotu]

On 3/2/2020 at 1:47 AM, StoneColdJoker said:

I have a Bio/Dark tank that I’ve had for awhile (only 13 though). But I keep wondering if I should have gone with Invulnerability instead for pure survivability.

IMHO WP survives better than Inv. 

 

I'm just some random dood who doesn't do teh maths, though, so take my opinion with a pinch of salt.

[SwitchFade]

23 hours ago, Herotu said:

IMHO WP survives better than Inv. 

 

I'm just some random dood who doesn't do teh maths, though, so take my opinion with a pinch of salt.

Inv is going to be tied with stone for top tier.

 

Inv can:

120%+ to s/l

67%-89% all others

+10-20% more resist to all from tank ATO proc

+7% more from scaling DR from io

45% to defense when 10 foes are around you

Massive hp pool causing huge Regen, especially when you hit dull pain

 

Another heal with rebirth.

 

And this is with taking cardiac alpha and hybrid assault.

 

In combat, spamming attacks, an invuln with a fully kitted build (this will be expensive, 1 billion) will have around 80-90% resist all, even psionics and will have 45% defense to all types, save psionics def.