Level 75 (or even 100)?

[CaptainSalerno]

I saw a few posts lately about completing the incarnate system up to the omega power. Many pointed out that with the current incarnates, most game content is already trivial.

I was thinking, rather than building up on the incarnate system, what if we increase the level cap to allow more powers and slots in a build? This would allow more flexibility and RP opportunities without too much power creep. I think that getting an extra couple of regular powers would have less impact than a brand new incarnate power.

[golstat2003]

I'd argue exactly the opposite. More slots and powers would actually be more of a power creep than a brand new incarnate power.

 

With a new incarnate the devs can DIRECTLY control how weak or strong it is. Hell they could make new ones that give no power benefit.

 

Whereas they have no control over where players put those new slots, or what powers they take. Suddenly you'd be able to six slot powers you couldn't before. And have room on some of the late powers to add things like procs. In addition players would be able to dip into pool powers they couldn't before. Some of those would directly lead to power creep.

 

Also I'm fine with the vet levels system we have in place.

 

/jranger.

Edited March 3, 2020 by golstat2003

[Redlynne]

WoW tried that.

Multiple times.

It never ends well ... and it ALWAYS results in a stats crunch in order to move things back into the "sweet spot" mathematically speaking.

 

Request Denied.

[Rathulfr]

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki//jranger

 

[Wilky]

i prefer 9999. just saying...

[Ruin Mage]

3 hours ago, CaptainSalerno said:

what if we increase the level cap to allow more powers and slots in a build?

One of the hardest things to do, I'm almost certain.

 

 

3 hours ago, CaptainSalerno said:

This would allow more flexibility and RP opportunities without too much power creep. I think that getting an extra couple of regular powers would have less impact than a brand new incarnate power.

Not how power creep works, chief.

[Burnt Toast]

No thank you. This would be a TREMENDOUS undertaking with little to no payoff. If anything - more content could be added at incarnate level in DA and via more itrials. 

[Troo]

It's troo the game at one point was 1-40 and then expanded to 50.

That expansion, correct me if I am remembering incorrectly, did not add extra powers to the power sets.

 

I don't mind seeing ideas on how to expand content. Good for @CaptainSalerno throwing an idea out there and taking the heat for it being a terrible terrible one. =)

Adding some non incarnate content is definitely in the plan. We also have an amazing tool in the AE to create player authored content.

 

Keep the ideas coming @CaptainSalerno

 

[SwitchFade]

I would have to vote no, as the game is good in this capacity and it would not add any new and/or better functionality, but would actually break balance 

 

If the gamee was designed that way form issue 4 on, sure, but it would be akin to remaking the whole game.

[Outrider_01]

More high end content, after Incarnate what else are you gonna do being a god?  Might as well go smack the skulls around in Atlas, just as challenging as 5th column in PI.

[Sakura Tenshi]

Honestly, having been playing Final Fantasy XIV a lot, I might not mind level cap increase... If this game was more like FFXIV, the problem is, it's not. In XIV, you do not pick and choose your abilities or build. Every single class is more linear than an late-2000's/early 2010's Call of Duty level because every class has a very very very specific slot to fill in a dungeon, trial, or raid. City of Heroes could take some cues from FFXIV, sure (like ground AoEs that are only dodgeable by physically moving out of the damn way, and even if you don't die from them, you take a stack that massively cuts down on your survivability) but in the end, City of isn't the kind of game that supports increased level caps, even less so without live, active development from a professional studio dev team and certainly not on the spaghetti bungled code this game runs on.

[Chris24601]

I'm going to go the opposite direction and say not only no to more levels, but also that, with hybrid, HC's version of the incarnate tree should be considered capped (i.e. adding more options to the six incarnate abilities is fine, adding new 1-50 sets and pools is encouraged, but adding more power picks, slots and incarnate power types is a no-go).

 

Right now even a fully t4'd incarnate is effectively level 53 for incarnate content so level 54 opponents are still about the strength of a stronger opponent you'd face in a +0 difficulty mission (and even then, only in i-trials and Dark Astoria) and normal level 54 mobs with the right powers can still be a threat without actually needing to redo the game's core coding.

 

With an all volunteer dev team it's going to be hard enough to just get new story content using the existing systems; expecting them to build all new systems and enough new content for 25-50 more levels would be downright sadistic.

[biostem]

3 hours ago, Troo said:

It's troo the game at one point was 1-40 and then expanded to 50.

That expansion, correct me if I am remembering incorrectly, did not add extra powers to the power sets.

It added the Ancillary Power Pools, IIRC.

[Nayeh]

For monsters, sure. Increase their level of difficulty. 😄

[Major_Decoy]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

It added the Ancillary Power Pools, IIRC.

If I recall, the Ancillary Power Pools were added Issue 3 or so. I think the level cap was increased with Issue 1.

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

If I recall, the Ancillary Power Pools were added Issue 3 or so. I think the level cap was increased with Issue 1.

You are correct sir!  *bows head*

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Issue_1

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Issue_3

[Chris24601]

5 hours ago, Troo said:

It's troo the game at one point was 1-40 and then expanded to 50.

An important point to note is that the one and only level bump happened just 62 days after launch and included new zones and new level 40+ mobs (Carnies, Malta, original recipe Praetorians) so it should NOT be considered some idea they hatched after the fact, but rather a part of the original plan that simply had delayed implementation.

 

Given that basically the game's entire life minus two months was level 1-50 its pretty safe to say there were never plans to do continual level cap increases like all those other MMO's have done.

[Troo]

Correct, for heroes the level cap was raised with issue 1.

For Villains, raising the villain level cap to 50 occurred with Issue 7. (Jun 2006)

 

Regardless the point is, powers were not add to power sets with the additional levels.

They did increase available power choices at times with additional power pools. This continues today.

 

Vet levels are post level 50 and after 100s or 1000+ hours of content. With those vet levels come new powers in the form of Incarnates.

While the explanation of Incarnates beyond opening the alpha may be lackluster the idea is fairly clever.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Troo

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

An important point to note is that the one and only level bump happened just 62 days after launch and included new zones and new level 40+ mobs (Carnies, Malta, original recipe Praetorians) so it should NOT be considered some idea they hatched after the fact, but rather a part of the original plan that simply had delayed implementation.

 

Given that basically the game's entire life minus two months was level 1-50 its pretty safe to say there were never plans to do continual level cap increases like all those other MMO's have done.

So more of a "time crunch" to get the game out on time, eh?  Yeah, seems to make sense, since Founders and Bricks don't seem much like end-game zones.  Maybe the Abandoned Sewer Network?

[Troo]

15 minutes ago, biostem said:

So more of a "time crunch" to get the game out on time, eh?  Yeah, seems to make sense, since Founders and Bricks don't seem much like end-game zones.  Maybe the Abandoned Sewer Network?

I would say more of a staggered release schedule to keep player interest and maximize the media buzz over time.

[Haijinx]

10 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki//jranger

 

Qft

[rebel_1812]

19 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

I'd argue exactly the opposite. More slots and powers would actually be more of a power creep than a brand new incarnate power.

 

With a new incarnate the devs can DIRECTLY control how weak or strong it is. Hell they could make new ones that give no power benefit.

 

Whereas they have no control over where players put those new slots, or what powers they take. Suddenly you'd be able to six slot powers you couldn't before. And have room on some of the late powers to add things like procs. In addition players would be able to dip into pool powers they couldn't before. Some of those would directly lead to power creep.

 

Also I'm fine with the vet levels system we have in place.

 

/jranger.

 

I agree with this.  50 is a good level cap.  Incarnates take a long time to farm.  Its good end game content that makes your hero more godlike literally, and lore inspired thematically.  I'm not for changing this.  Just increase the incarnate abilities and perhaps add a new Incarnate Trial that is very difficult.