Defender and Corruptor Poison Venomous Gas

[Major_Decoy]

I feel as though Venomous Gas being a PBAoE makes it significantly harder to use, especially since the set lacks a self-heal or a defensive boost.

 

To keep it useful solo, and give it a slightly different mechanic from sets with location toggles or enemy toggles, change it to Enchanced Venom and for all the powers in the set that get to-hit checks, there is a proc to apply the Venomous Gas debuff (duration refreshing, not stacking).

[Sura]

I'd even be happier if it acted like the Mastermind version, where it's the same power but you put it on a teammate rather than yourself.

[Mr. Vee]

I love my procced out toe bomb. you should be in melee with poison anyway to take advantage of the aura, just dump it on them.

[Leogunner]

It's a different play style. I already have blackstar slotted for rech which requires close range. Stack blackstar, venomous gas and poison trap, I'm mostly safe. If I wanted to be really safe I'd stack IO bonuses for more defense. But as is, my build is standard IOs that mostly hurts for more rech. 

[Major_Decoy]

6 hours ago, Veelectric Boogaloo said:

I love my procced out toe bomb. you should be in melee with poison anyway to take advantage of the aura, just dump it on them.

I didn't say anything about poison trap. It's the aura that I'm complaining about.

[Mr. Vee]

Sorry, got my power names confused. The aura is easily the best power in the set and one of the best powers in the game. Slot it for -to hit, build for ranged defense with a resist patron shield and you're practically immortal (as a fendur anyway, less so as secondary). Mine was so tough i took the taunt aura hybrid. The other day our tank dc'd right after we started the towers on stf and my poison tanked recluse for 5 minutes with the damage tower still up before finally taking two hits in succession and dying.

[Razor Cure]

8 hours ago, Sura said:

I'd even be happier if it acted like the Mastermind version, where it's the same power but you put it on a teammate rather than yourself.

I HATED it on my MM. Literally every single time I used it on a pet, that pet would instantly get all the aggro and go splat, in spite of the 'amazing' debuffs. Even worse since pets are at a lower level than you are (sometimes). But the option to have it on self or other would be good. Hint Hint, for sonic too.

[Major_Decoy]

1 hour ago, Veelectric Boogaloo said:

Sorry, got my power names confused. The aura is easily the best power in the set and one of the best powers in the game. Slot it for -to hit, build for ranged defense with a resist patron shield and you're practically immortal (as a fendur anyway, less so as secondary). Mine was so tough i took the taunt aura hybrid. The other day our tank dc'd right after we started the towers on stf and my poison tanked recluse for 5 minutes with the damage tower still up before finally taking two hits in succession and dying.

The aura is only a 12.5% to hit debuff. Weaken's debuff is more than twice that. The advantage the aura has over Weaken is that it's auto-hit and has a 15 foot radius instead of an 8 foot radius.

The aura is nice, but it's not remotely the best power in the set. It is a nice power, but I'd like it more if I didn't have to be in melee to use it. You play a lot of the game at levels at which you don't have patron shields.

[Mr. Vee]

yes it's only 12.5 base. that's why i said to slot it for -to hit. mine's throwing off 19.69. it's pretty easy on a defender to get enough melee defense to combine with that. And anything you're fighting at levels below where you have your patron shield is going to be easy enough that you can still jump into mobs and blast away. If you've got an av or a tough boss in there whack them with weaken too. all i know is my poison/dp is one of my 2-3 favorite toons and i absolutely hated it until the aura. It was probably the biggest turnaround of opinion of a character i've experienced from one power since i started playing this game. Sorry you're not having as much fun with yours.

[Major_Decoy]

Yeah, I've got mine four slotted with Dark Watcher's set. My experience with it is not at all similar to yours.

[Mr. Vee]

same slotting I have. oh well. not everyone likes everything the same 😄 here's my build iyi. i do also run all three amplifiers on every toon, which makes a big difference w/r/t mez since two have to get through defenses to mez me. but i doubt that would be the clinching factor as i rarely take that many hits anyway and have friends who play poison without it just fine. could just be our playstyle differences. i typically run recklessly into melee on anything cackling madly and with this toon that works well for me.

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Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
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Hunter S. Burroughs: Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Poison
Secondary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Envenom -- ShlBrk-Acc/DefDeb(A), ShlBrk-%Dam(27), TchofLadG-%Dam(27), AnlWkn-Acc/DefDeb(29)
Level 1: Pistols -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(11)
Level 2: Weaken -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(3), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(3), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(5), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), CldSns-%Dam(7)
Level 4: Empty Clips -- PstBls-Dam%(A), TchofLadG-%Dam(13), ExpStr-Dam%(13), ShlBrk-%Dam(15), FrcFdb-Rechg%(21), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(21)
Level 6: Neurotoxic Breath -- Acc-I(A)
Level 8: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 10: Swap Ammo 
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Bullet Rain -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dam%(17), JvlVll-Dam%(17), ImpSwf-Dam%(19), ExpStr-Dam%(19), FrcFdb-Rechg%(43)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23), ShlWal-Def(25), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 20: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(40), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 22: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Poison Trap -- Erd-%Dam(A), Arm-Dam%(29), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(34), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(34), UnbCns-Dam%(43), ScrDrv-Dam%(46)
Level 28: Executioner's Shot -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Apc-Acc/Rchg(37), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Apc-Dam%(37)
Level 30: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(31), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(31), GldArm-3defTpProc(31), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 32: Venomous Gas -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(33), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(33), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(36), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(36), UnbGrd-Max HP%(46)
Level 38: Hail of Bullets -- SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(39), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(39), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(42), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(42)
Level 44: Piercing Rounds -- Rgn-Acc/Rchg(A), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(45), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Rgn-Knock%(46)
Level 47: Power Sink -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance 
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(42), Prv-Absorb%(43), Mrc-Rcvry+(48)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(23)
Level 10: Chemical Ammunition 
Level 10: Cryo Ammunition 
Level 10: Incendiary Ammunition 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Phantom Radial Superior Ally 
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany 
Level 50: Support Core Embodiment 
Level 1: Quick Form 
------------

 

Hunter S. Burroughs - Defender (Poison).mxd

[Major_Decoy]

15 minutes ago, Veelectric Boogaloo said:

same slotting I have. oh well. not everyone likes everything the same 😄 here's my build iyi. i do also run all three amplifiers on every toon, which makes a big difference w/r/t mez since two have to get through defenses to mez me. but i doubt that would be the clinching factor as i rarely take that many hits anyway and have friends who play poison without it just fine. could just be our playstyle differences. i typically run recklessly into melee on anything cackling madly and with this toon that works well for me.

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Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Hunter S. Burroughs: Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Poison
Secondary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Envenom -- ShlBrk-Acc/DefDeb(A), ShlBrk-%Dam(27), TchofLadG-%Dam(27), AnlWkn-Acc/DefDeb(29)
Level 1: Pistols -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(11)
Level 2: Weaken -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(3), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(3), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(5), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), CldSns-%Dam(7)
Level 4: Empty Clips -- PstBls-Dam%(A), TchofLadG-%Dam(13), ExpStr-Dam%(13), ShlBrk-%Dam(15), FrcFdb-Rechg%(21), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(21)
Level 6: Neurotoxic Breath -- Acc-I(A)
Level 8: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 10: Swap Ammo 
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Bullet Rain -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dam%(17), JvlVll-Dam%(17), ImpSwf-Dam%(19), ExpStr-Dam%(19), FrcFdb-Rechg%(43)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23), ShlWal-Def(25), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 20: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(40), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 22: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Poison Trap -- Erd-%Dam(A), Arm-Dam%(29), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(34), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(34), UnbCns-Dam%(43), ScrDrv-Dam%(46)
Level 28: Executioner's Shot -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Apc-Acc/Rchg(37), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Apc-Dam%(37)
Level 30: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(31), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(31), GldArm-3defTpProc(31), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 32: Venomous Gas -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(33), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(33), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(36), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(36), UnbGrd-Max HP%(46)
Level 38: Hail of Bullets -- SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(39), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(39), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(42), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(42)
Level 44: Piercing Rounds -- Rgn-Acc/Rchg(A), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(45), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Rgn-Knock%(46)
Level 47: Power Sink -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance 
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(42), Prv-Absorb%(43), Mrc-Rcvry+(48)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(23)
Level 10: Chemical Ammunition 
Level 10: Cryo Ammunition 
Level 10: Incendiary Ammunition 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Phantom Radial Superior Ally 
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany 
Level 50: Support Core Embodiment 
Level 1: Quick Form 
------------

 

Hunter S. Burroughs - Defender (Poison).mxd 5.58 kB · 0 downloads

Mine is very different. I didn't ignore set bonus, but didn't feel like chasing anything. I mean, I used devastation in all my single target attacks because I felt "Hey, I've got a couple of holds, the chance for more wouldn't hurt" and my targeted AoEs all got -res, because defender's gonna debuff.

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Living Water: Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Poison
Secondary Power Set: Water Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Envenom -- ShlBrk-DefDeb(A), ShlBrk-Acc/DefDeb(3), ShlBrk-Acc/Rchg(3), ShlBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(5), ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), AchHee-ResDeb%(7)
Level 1: Aqua Bolt -- Dvs-Acc/Dmg(A), Dvs-Dmg/EndRdx(25), Dvs-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Dvs-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Dvs-Hold%(27)
Level 2: Weaken -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(7), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(9), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(9), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11), CldSns-%Dam(11)
Level 4: Hydro Blast -- Dvs-Acc/Dmg(A), Dvs-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Dvs-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Dvs-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Dvs-Hold%(31)
Level 6: Neurotoxic Breath -- TmpRdn-Acc/Slow(A), TmpRdn-Acc/EndRdx(13), TmpRdn-Rng/Slow(13), TmpRdn-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(15), TmpRdn-Acc/Dmg/Slow(15)
Level 8: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 10: Alkaloid -- DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx(A), DctWnd-EndRdx/Rchg(17), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(17), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(19), DctWnd-Heal(19)
Level 12: Antidote -- TtnCtn-EndRdx/Rchg(A)
Level 14: Elixir of Life -- TtnCtn-EndRdx/Rchg(A), RechRdx-I(21)
Level 16: Whirlpool -- Ann-Acc/Dmg(A), Ann-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Ann-ResDeb%(34)
Level 18: Paralytic Poison -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(21), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(23), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(23)
Level 20: Water Burst -- Ann-Acc/Dmg(A), Ann-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Ann-ResDeb%(43)
Level 22: Tidal Forces -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 24: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Poison Trap -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(48), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(48), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(50), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(50), Lck-%Hold(50)
Level 28: Water Jet -- Dvs-Acc/Dmg(A), Dvs-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Dvs-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Dvs-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Dvs-Hold%(45)
Level 30: Tactics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Venomous Gas -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(33), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(33), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Steam Spray -- ShlBrk-DefDeb(A), ShlBrk-Acc/DefDeb(36), ShlBrk-Acc/Rchg(36), ShlBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(36), ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37), AchHee-ResDeb%(37)
Level 38: Geyser -- Ann-Acc/Dmg(A), Ann-Dmg/Rchg(39), Ann-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Ann-ResDeb%(40)
Level 41: Shark Skin -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Hibernate -- NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(A), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(45), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(46), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Vengeance -- Ksm-ToHit+(A)
Level 49: Victory Rush -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Quick Form
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(48)
Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
------------

 

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[Mr. Vee]

Ah, that certainly clears up why you don't like yours as well. pm me your global if you need money to make a more concerted go at beasting it up a bit.

[Major_Decoy]

It's fine as long as I don't get into melee. And I really don't want to take the fighting pool on all my characters.

 

My thought is the following:

 

Turning Venomous Gas into a toggle that gives all powers that require accuracy slotting a proc with the exact debuff that venomous gas provides is a viable solution.

 

It has the downside that the debuff would no longer be autohit, but you could use it either at range or in melee. I think that, outside certain edge cases like a Paragon Protector's Moment of Glory, a melee range defender like you wouldn't notice a difference. (I'm not sure how much of a difference you'd notice against a paragon protector's moment of glory, because poison has access to holds and a defender who doesn't hold a Paragon Protector before they use Moment of Glory is not a wise defender).

On the other hand, a defender who wants to stay at range and be able to use cones that come with the set, would be able to do so.

[Mr. Vee]

yeah i just don't like the idea. with the aura being auto-hit i don't even need to use the other debuffs except situationally. i can blast away at things and save the early tier debuffs for hard targets. (and btw my approach to paragon protectors is usually save a burst damage power for just before they mog). 

 

It's fine that we play the toons differently but i feel like calling for major changes in the way a set operates should really be reserved for powers/mechanics that are just plain bad independently of individual styles. I don't think that's the case here.

[Hoots]

2 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

(I'm not sure how much of a difference you'd notice against a paragon protector's moment of glory, because poison has access to holds and a defender who doesn't hold a Paragon Protector before they use Moment of Glory is not a wise defender).

Lmao what is this even

[hutokaze]

Anyways, skipping over that, I'm not sure what you're getting at here. You want the effects of powers changed when there are glaringly obvious changes you could make to your build to fix the "issues" you're having?

 

You mentioned a lack of "defensive boost" in your first paragraph but never even took maneuvers? C'mooon, man.

 

3 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

On the other hand, a defender who wants to stay at range and be able to use cones that come with the set, would be able to do so.

Do tell, how many cones does a poison/water have?

 

I feel like you either don't understand the powersets you're using, or (judging by you taking nearly every power from both sets and your attitude so far) you're upset that you chose powersets for a theme and you don't want to have to change it to make it better.

[Major_Decoy]

48 minutes ago, hutokaze said:

Anyways, skipping over that, I'm not sure what you're getting at here. You want the effects of powers changed when there are glaringly obvious changes you could make to your build to fix the "issues" you're having?

 

You mentioned a lack of "defensive boost" in your first paragraph but never even took maneuvers? C'mooon, man.

 

Do tell, how many cones does a poison/water have?

 

I feel like you either don't understand the powersets you're using, or (judging by you taking nearly every power from both sets and your attitude so far) you're upset that you chose powersets for a theme and you don't want to have to change it to make it better.

I'm not getting mad. I'm seeing that wanting to use a certain power is forcing me into a certain build, that wasn't one I was particularly interested in going down and trying to make a suggestion that would increase my enjoyment without significantly impacting the way other people play.

The set itself has no defenses or self heals. Yes, there are powers I could take to have defenses and self heals.

 

Even if I didn't know, it would be the work of seconds to tell you that Poison has one that's a 30 degree cone with a range of... 50? It's narrow enough that if you want to hit a sizable portion of a group, you can't use it in the normal range of Venomous Gas. So, if you're the type of person who uses it, you'd use it while running in to hopefully keep the enemies closer to you, since they're a lot more prone to running all over the place now. But if your argument is "Poison only has one cone and water only has one cone, two cones shouldn't entirely define your play style" I'd respond that Poison/Water also only has two PBAoEs.

 

In the days of Unyielding Stance, you could teletank and be perfectly fine. Were the people who wanted to be able to move and have status protection wrong for wanting to pick powersets for a theme and not wanting to change to make it better?

 

Why is there even a suggestions section if I'm supposed to "Be content with the game as is"?

 

What is the argument you're making? What are you arguing against?

1 hour ago, Hoots said:

Lmao what is this even

Are you not familiar with the idea of preventing your enemies from using their defensive powers? You use a control against a paragon protector, fake nemesis, etc. when they get low on health so they can't activate moment of glory, unstoppable, personal force field. It really cuts down on the time it takes to defeat them.

[Major_Decoy]

3 hours ago, Veelectric Boogaloo said:

yeah i just don't like the idea. with the aura being auto-hit i don't even need to use the other debuffs except situationally. i can blast away at things and save the early tier debuffs for hard targets. (and btw my approach to paragon protectors is usually save a burst damage power for just before they mog). 

 

It's fine that we play the toons differently but i feel like calling for major changes in the way a set operates should really be reserved for powers/mechanics that are just plain bad independently of individual styles. I don't think that's the case here.

That's fair. Would it be over-powered if the toggle did both? An Auto-hit PBAoE toggle and a proc, with the same, non-stacking debuff?

[Mr. Vee]

Probably not OP if it didn't stack with the aura, so your cone could apply it to things not in the pbaoe range. No idea how hard it'd be to implement though. 

I only occasionally use neuro breath since -speed/rch is pretty much useless against AVs and anything else dies too quickly to bother, but it's a pretty nice power for normal mobs. when i use it I just jump back, hit it, then head back in. not sure how easy that would be without combat jumping though. 

[Sura]

20 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

I HATED it on my MM. Literally every single time I used it on a pet, that pet would instantly get all the aggro and go splat, in spite of the 'amazing' debuffs. Even worse since pets are at a lower level than you are (sometimes). But the option to have it on self or other would be good. Hint Hint, for sonic too.

I ran it on my Bruiser in Thugs and he handled it OK.  I wouldn't put it on any pet other than that, though I've really only tried Thugs and Undead.

 

Couldn't agree more on adding choice of where to put it.  If VG was a toggle (like Disruption Field) and both VG and Disruption Field could be self targeted or teammate targeted that would be amazing.

[Mr. Vee]

27 minutes ago, Sura said:

I ran it on my Bruiser in Thugs and he handled it OK.  I wouldn't put it on any pet other than that, though I've really only tried Thugs and Undead.

 

Couldn't agree more on adding choice of where to put it.  If VG was a toggle (like Disruption Field) and both VG and Disruption Field could be self targeted or teammate targeted that would be amazing.

I could get behind that for both powers. Could keep my VG on me and Major-Decoy could put it on a melee teammate. And i'd play my sonic a lot more if i could self target DF. But assuming it'd be non-trivial to change.

[hutokaze]

6 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

Were the people who wanted to be able to move and have status protection wrong for wanting to pick powersets for a theme and not wanting to change to make it better?

A thousand times yes. It's not on the devs if someone chooses to follow a theme and refuses to change their power selections and slotting to improve the build.

 

6 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

I'm seeing that wanting to use a certain power is forcing me into a certain build, that wasn't one I was particularly interested in going down and trying to make a suggestion that would increase my enjoyment without significantly impacting the way other people play.

Again, it's not on the devs if you refuse to change your build or playstyle to utilize Venomous Gas properly. And yes, along with poison trap, it is arguably the best power in the set.

 

6 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

The set itself has no defenses or self heals

2 powers with -to hit are defensive powers.

 

Asking about the number of cones was because you said

11 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

defender who wants to stay at range and be able to use cones that come with the set, would be able to do so.

I'm well aware how many cones, TAoEs, and PBAoEs poison and water have, and 

6 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

I'd respond that Poison/Water also only has two PBAoEs.

is completely irrelevant specifically because of what you said about staying at range and using cones.

 

6 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

What is the argument you're making? What are you arguing against?

I'm arguing against changing the way a power functions purely because you don't want to change your build or playstyle.

 

11 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

defender who doesn't hold a Paragon Protector before they use Moment of Glory is not a wise defender

Then I guess I'm not a wise defender, cuz all my poison uses for holds is VG and poison trap, didn't even take the ST hold.

 

6 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

Are you not familiar with the idea of preventing your enemies from using their defensive powers?

Uhhhhh yeah, it's called 

13 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

defender's gonna debuff

Weaken, envenom, and VG all give -def, -res, or reduce the effectiveness of defense buffs. Whirlpool also gives -def. Water burst and geyser do KD and KU respectively. Can't use MoG or Unstop if they can't get back on their feet, and even if they do, thanks to reduced def and res, the AoE damage will finish them off.

[hutokaze]

6 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

Why is there even a suggestions section if I'm supposed to "Be content with the game as is"?

Last but not least, as vee said, there's a suggestions section for powers that are functionally abysmal, not just because you refuse to do things differently.

[Major_Decoy]

I understand there are different methods of dealing with paragon protectors and moment of glory. I was not suggesting that there was only one to deal with them.

 

My purpose was to take one example where having the power as a proc and not auto-hit might cause a significant change. I kind of think it's an edge case, but it was something I was thinking about.

 

I was making a suggestion that would improve my enjoyment while trying to maintain existing playstyles. That's why I didn't suggest a location based toggle or a toggle that targeted other players.

 

And I fundamentally disagree with your assessment of "Well, you should just take all these other powers and use this other slotting"