Travel Power Update

[Alchemystic]

Following a few of the discussions in regards to the new origin power pools, there seems to be some demand to get standard travel powers in a state that makes them more viable compared to the new ones that are making their way into the game.

 

Most people seem to enjoy the idea of giving secondary functions to the existing travel powers, as well as merging two powers into one to create room for another, so based on this feedback I've thought up a few ways of making the current travel power pools more effective and rewarding.

 

TELEPORTATION 

1 - Combine Teleport Foe and Recall Friend into a single power, much like how Injection and Enflame can target both allies and enemies with different effects.

 

2 - Give the powerset a 'Jaunt' like teleport that has a faster animation and no slow/hover effect when used.

 

SPEED

1 - Replace Whirlwind with a power that is almost identical to Burst of Speed from Martial Combat, allowing for short range damaging Teleport power with multiple uses before recharge.

 

2 - grant Super Speed a defense bonus, and while in combat the functionality of 'Whirlwind' would activate.

 

LEAPING

1 - Merge Combat Jumping and Acrobatics into one power

 

2 - Add a new power that works like Jump Jet and Steam Jump that also grants a jump speed bonus.

 

FLIGHT

1 - Rework Group Fly so it has a small chance to cause a low mag/duration 'Soul Storm' hold effect on nearby foes for a short duration. OR perhaps enemies gain the hover power, but a debuff to speed and accuracy as they float around aimlessly.

 

 

If anybody else has ideas,  I'd like to see them! Anything to help make the current travel powersets more viable and with investing in!

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Tyrannical

[Steampunkette]

5 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

Following a few of the discussions in regards to the new origin power pools, there seems to be some demand to get standard travel powers in a state that makes them more viable compared to the new ones that are making their way into the game.

 

Most people seem to enjoy the idea of giving secondary functions to the existing travel powers, as well as merging two powers into one to create room for another, so based on this feedback I've thought up a few ways of making the current travel power pools more effective and rewarding.

 

TELEPORTATION 

1 - Combine Teleport Foe and Recall Friend into a single power, much like how Injection and Enflame can target both allies and enemies with different effects.

 

2 - Give the powerset a 'Jaunt' like teleport that has a faster animation and no slow/hover effect when used.

 

SPEED

1 - Replace Whirlwind with a power that is almost identical to Burst of Speed from Martial Combat, allowing for short range damaging Teleport power with short range but multiple uses before recharge. The power would activate the 'Whirlwind effect upon teleporting.

 

2 - grant Super Speed a defense bonus.

 

LEAPING

1 - Merge Combat Jumping and Acrobatics into one power

 

2 - Add a new power that works like Jump Jet and Steam Jump that also grants a jump speed bonus.

 

FLIGHT

1 - Rework Group Fly so it has a chance to cause the 'Soul Storm' hold effect on nearby foes for a short duration.

 

I like your Teleport idea a ton...

 

Speed... nnn... Not so much. While Whirlwind is rarely taken, combining it with burst of speed neither makes sense nor feels balanced.

 

Leaping... kinda sorta almost cool with it. But both CJ and Acro are considered mandatory and chase powers, depending on AT. So it feels a bit too strong to combine them... unless we put them at Acrobatics' tier and put the double-jump at the lower level. Then I'd actually be pretty cool with it, since CJ would no longer be a Dip power. However this would make a lot of people very upset.

 

Flight: No. Just no. Flat out no.

[Alchemystic]

19 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

I like your Teleport idea a ton...

 

Speed... nnn... Not so much. While Whirlwind is rarely taken, combining it with burst of speed neither makes sense nor feels balanced.

 

Leaping... kinda sorta almost cool with it. But both CJ and Acro are considered mandatory and chase powers, depending on AT. So it feels a bit too strong to combine them... unless we put them at Acrobatics' tier and put the double-jump at the lower level. Then I'd actually be pretty cool with it, since CJ would no longer be a Dip power. However this would make a lot of people very upset.

 

Flight: No. Just no. Flat out no.

 

Credit goes to @Vandenfor the Teleport Foe/Recall Friend idea.

 

I made a quick change to Super Speed so the whirlwind effect is instead 'combat mode' for super speed.

 

Leaping would likely have the 'Double Jump' power first and the 'Combat Acrobatics' power later for sure.

 

As for flight I was a bit stumped. Group Fly is rarely picked and I had no clue how to get it to seem more viable besides some sort of AoE effect on foes too. Repel is a no-no so I went with hold, but perhaps giving foes a really slow 'Hover' power with -Acc/-ToHit may work as they're helplessly suspended in the air.

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Tyrannical

[Steampunkette]

Easy answer to Group Fly? Make it into a click. Costs of fairly decent amount, grants 3 minutes of full speed flight. Recharges in 2 minutes.

 

Maybe even give it a power grant with a separate action bar of a dive bomb attack. Give the dive bomb a 45 second recharge but otherwise make it burst of speed with minimal damage but a big knockdown effect.

[Replacement]

32 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

SPEED

1 - Replace Whirlwind with a power that is almost identical to Burst of Speed from Martial Combat, allowing for short range damaging Teleport power with multiple uses before recharge.

 

2 - grant Super Speed a defense bonus, and while in combat the functionality of 'Whirlwind' would activate.

Suggested adjustment (and I see now you've already edited this once): Append Whirlwind to Flurry instead.  I would go with "If you are at least level 14 and have any other power from the Super Speed pool, activating Flurry will make Whirlwind available for a short while" or something.   There's a lot of room to play with the specifics, but the point is to fuse the two joke powers (flurry and whirlwind) into one purchase.

 

And I don't think SS needs a defense bonus, personally.

 

The Recall Friend/Teleport Foe combination power could definitely stand to have their casting times cut down as well (both are around 5.5 seconds currently).

 

EDIT: I don't quite understand @Steampunkette's vehemence about your Group Fly effect. I know what you're talking about with the funny soul storm "floaty hold" animation and that would be fun. 

 

But I'd rather see focus on making Group Fly just more usable.  My understanding is it does give nearby allies 10 seconds of flight, so they have a wee bit of tolerance to leaving the area?  I'd start with extending that window. Something like 40 seconds.

The other thing that would be really nice is a pop-up tray that shows "Granted Flight" as a 0-endurance toggle, already enabled.  This would let players choose to detoggle it at their leisure.  That, granted by a 40 second "Group Fly" buff that refreshes when you're near the caster, could be really nice.

 

Oh, and something I think all video games need but is not easy to program: +fly speed buff when flying towards the caster, so it's easy to catch up. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Replacement

[Alchemystic]

6 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Suggested adjustment (and I see now you've already edited this once): Append Whirlwind to Flurry instead.  I would go with "If you are at least level 14 and have any other power from the Super Speed pool, activating Flurry will make Whirlwind available for a short while" or something. 

Perhaps if you activate Flurry while Super Speed is active, it instead does an AoE attack akin to whirlwind.

[Steampunkette]

@ReplacementThe suggestion was to add an AoE Foe Hold to the Group Flight power.

 

That's not just cottage rule breaking. It's also supremely weird and borderline OP. Particularly for mez-stacking from a Control-based character.

 

I'd be kind of leery of the Whirlwind Flurry... Or the SS Whirlwind. I feel like Whirlwind is in -such- a niche that you can't change it out with anything or combine it with anything. It either needs to be left as is (Buffed perhaps) or removed and replaced.

[Redlynne]

12 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Easy answer to Group Fly? Make it into a click.

I would use the example of Inertial Reduction in Kinetics ... because IT WORKS.

[Alchemystic]

8 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

@ReplacementThe suggestion was to add an AoE Foe Hold to the Group Flight power.

 

That's not just cottage rule breaking. It's also supremely weird and borderline OP. Particularly for mez-stacking from a Control-based character.

the idea for the hold effect is that it would be a low proc chance with low magnitude and a very short duration, not a constant AoE hold that could be abused.

 

Occasionally a nearby foe would float up for a few seconds before being released, but stronger foes would likely not be affected.

 

The alternate idea I had was so it grants nearby foes the ability to hover (though not held) but impose a speed and accuracy debuff to them. Obviously, foes that are resistant or already have flight wont be affected as much.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Tyrannical

[Replacement]

Yeah, I like the flavor for sure.  But I think what's clear is, as a community, we are more interested in the usability of Group Fly delivering on its promise than we are of adding spice or overall power budget of the power.

 

Btw, I'm basically in agreement with merging Combat Jumping and Acrobatics -- Acrobatics is worthless, to my eyes.  However, the Endurance cost would need to go way up.  CJ already has far lower end cost than it's supposed to have.  People will not be happy with the price of adding in the too-low-to-matter Hold protection or the "shoulda just bought an IO" KB protection.

[Replacement]

I have my own suggestion I'd like to submit, but it requires an explanation of current functionality:

 

Right now, Jump Kick is separated into 2 parts:

Animation #1: forward flip kick, ends with character in a crouched position.  Uninterruptible 

Animation #2: backflip into standard combat stance.  Interruptible. This only plays if you take no further action.

 

I like the 2nd animation and really just want a reason to get to see it outside of "this is an easy enough fight that I don't feel threatened."

 

Suggestion:

Jump Kick: Now holds player in the last frame of Animation #1.  

Reactivate within 3 seconds to play Animation #2 and provide Hold and Knockback protection.

 

Now you can totally repurpose Acrobatics, or leave it the same to stack up the mezes.  Or add a different benefit to the Reactivation (ideally defensive).

Edited March 4, 2020 by Replacement

[Rylas]

46 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Easy answer to Group Fly? Make it into a click. Costs of fairly decent amount, grants 3 minutes of full speed flight. Recharges in 2 minutes.

 

Maybe even give it a power grant with a separate action bar of a dive bomb attack. Give the dive bomb a 45 second recharge but otherwise make it burst of speed with minimal damage but a big knockdown effect.

The problem with that is not being able to turn off group fly when you don't need it. And even if you had it work like a Hybrid power, you'd then be left with waiting for it to recharge when you need it. I could see MM players who use it with their pets getting pretty upset by the change. 

 

1 hour ago, Tyrannical said:

TELEPORTATION 

1 - Combine Teleport Foe and Recall Friend into a single power, much like how Injection and Enflame can target both allies and enemies with different effects.

 

2 - Give the powerset a 'Jaunt' like teleport that has a faster animation and no slow/hover effect when used.

I could see combining Teleport Foe/Recall Friend. But instead of Jaunt, I might be more interested in a TP attack power. 

 

1 hour ago, Tyrannical said:

SPEED

1 - Replace Whirlwind with a power that is almost identical to Burst of Speed from Martial Combat, allowing for short range damaging Teleport power with multiple uses before recharge.

 

2 - grant Super Speed a defense bonus, and while in combat the functionality of 'Whirlwind' would activate.

 

SS having a defense bonus doesn't make a lot of sense since its speed is suppressed in combat. Also, keeping SS toggled during combat is a bit of an end drain. What about replacing one of it's powers with a "Combat Jumping" adjacent ability? Say, a +run speed ability that grants a CJ level def bonus, and also has a strong resist to slow. If CJ can provide Immobilize protection, having a Speed pool power that resist Slows makes a lot of sense.

 

1 hour ago, Tyrannical said:

LEAPING

1 - Merge Combat Jumping and Acrobatics into one power

 

2 - Add a new power that works like Jump Jet and Steam Jump that also grants a jump speed bonus.

CJ+Acrobatics would be a bit strong, and a lot of people like CJ for the in combat mobility and low endurance cost. Balancing the end cost to combine the two could be a loss for a lot of players. 

[Steampunkette]

@Rylas

 

If it were a click power with a 3 minute duration it would be a Buff.

 

Right Click the buff in your bar. Choose Cancel. No more flight.

[Rylas]

3 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

@Rylas

 

If it were a click power with a 3 minute duration it would be a Buff.

 

Right Click the buff in your bar. Choose Cancel. No more flight.

I'm going to claim ignorance here. Does that still have the same ease of play as being able to toggle Group Fly on and off for a MM and his/her pets? 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Rylas

[Steampunkette]

17 minutes ago, Rylas said:

I'm going to claim ignorance here. Does that still have the same ease of play as being able to toggle Group Fly on and off for a MM and his/her pets? 

No... but so what?

 

I mean... what situations does having flying at no continuous cost do harm outside of, say, RP? A pack of flying wolves still moves to their target and bites them. The MM can still fly through any sewer door.

 

What situations exist where it needs to be "Toggled Off"?

[Rylas]

2 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

What situations exist where it needs to be "Toggled Off"?

I don't play MMs, so I have no clue. I'm just aware that some use it for their ranged pets. It's pretty niche, I know, but still worth considering when touching Group Fly. 

 

Not that I'm against the change. I'm just trying to make sure I understand the suggestion and whether or not it could negatively impact that play style. 

[Hardship]

I think that some MM's used Group Fly to keep their pets from running into melee range. With the changes to the pet "goto / stay" commands, I'm not sure if this is still used. I also don't play MM's, so if anyone who DOES play an MM speaks up otherwise, I withdraw my comment.

[SeraphimKensai]

If whirlwind is going to be changed, just slightly reduce the endurance cost. Otherwise it's a great power, especially when you proc it out with KB to KD and a FF: recharge proc.

[GamerRick]

I understand the limitations put on travel powers and in general agree with them. Fly is so much more versatile than super speed so i feel it should have a negative effect to balance that. 
 

What I would like to see is a change to group fly. Every entity (pets or players) should travel at the same speed even if that speed is slightly slower than regular fly. We could then slot it to bring it very close with regular fly (about two enhancements). I would like the ability to have my pets in the air with me rather than running/jumping all over the place argo’ing the mobs along the way.  Plus I think it would be cool to see robots flying around. 

6 hours ago, Tyrannical said:

TELEPORTATION 

1 - Combine Teleport Foe and Recall Friend into a single power, much like how Injection and Enflame can target both allies and enemies with different effects.

I think this suggestion is a great idea.  It’s strikes me funny that I can teleport one human that is a friend but not one that is standing in front of me unless I take a second power. Of course mob teleport resistance should still be considered for successful teleport. 

[Mr. Wallet]

Well, someone's got to be the party pooper, so I guess it'll be me.

 

I've been disappointed with the power creep in travel powers. Even before that, following the principle that a good game design presents players with interesting choices, I was already disappointed that base Flight and Super Speed don't even give me a meaningful choice of whether or not to put slots on them (except as set mules). If this were the olden days where you couldn't get your travel power until 14 and you needed one of the first 2 powers, we could debate at length if a better travel power was offset by the need to take some inferior or unthematic requirement, but we live in a world where, for a price of one power selection, you can either get a speed-cap flight, or you can get a speed-cap flight with an optional teleport. Arguments for the preferability of the former are mostly based on something as petty and patchable as the particle effects, or on hypotheticals about running out of pool selections in order to get all the types of powers one wants, which, in a world with epic pools, incarnate powers, inherent Fitness, and P2W temporary powers, doesn't seem applicable on nearly as many characters as some people make it out to be.

 

I agree that the vanilla travel powers are a tiny bit questionable compared to the origin set powers. My solution is: nerf the origin set powers. It doesn't really matter how. Maybe reduce the base jump height on Mighty Leap to Ninja Run level so it can't get over stuff quite as easily. Maybe have Mystic Flight cost enough endurance just on the flight portion that at base numbers you can't make it across a medium-size zone purely on chain teleportation.

 

I'm all for fixing/replacing powers that very few people want in any form (e.g. Group Flight is not neglected because of a superior version in a different set), but that's a separate topic.

 

And yes, this game has never been big on balance, but that's why I don't rant on these forums until I see a thread of half a dozen people debating how best to add even more power creep in a game that's already plenty convenient and easy.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Mr. Wallet

[DR_Mechano]

I will point out that of all the travel powers. Leaping is probably the one that needs the least change. Combat Jumping is useful as a LotG mule AND provides +def for a very, very low end cost and you'll often see higher end builds either picking Leaping as their main travel power or dipping in to it for combat jumping. In fact I see more build suggest Leaping vs the new one because +def and the fact that CJ can be a one slot wonder is so highly valued.

 

Meanwhile all the powers in it's origin version apart from Mighty Leap itself DO require slotting to be useful, whether that be accuracy or some other slots.

[Super Atom]

You know what would be cool? Just making fly faster instead of requiring another power. With SJ/SS/TP you just need 1 power to reach a good speed, with fly you need two. Seems a little unfair to me.

[Apparition]

50 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

You know what would be cool? Just making fly faster instead of requiring another power. With SJ/SS/TP you just need 1 power to reach a good speed, with fly you need two. Seems a little unfair to me.

 

I vastly prefer the Fly travel power, but my characters need Super Speed in order to keep up with my teammates in side of missions as we are all speed runners.  So, on every character I play, I take Hover, Fly, Afterburner, Hasten, and Super Speed.  That means that there is extremely little wiggle room, and sometimes I can't even fit Combat Jumping into my character builds.  Combining Fly and Afterburner into one travel power would be lovely.

[Leogunner]

2 hours ago, Super Atom said:

You know what would be cool? Just making fly faster instead of requiring another power. With SJ/SS/TP you just need 1 power to reach a good speed, with fly you need two. Seems a little unfair to me.

Afterburner has its advantages too. For the non-IOed-to-the-gills characters, it's a great escape tool that gives you a good amount of defense on a toggle that's available pretty often. 

[Rathulfr]

25 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Afterburner has its advantages too. For the non-IOed-to-the-gills characters, it's a great escape tool that gives you a good amount of defense on a toggle that's available pretty often. 

It's also useful to mule LotG +Recharge or SW +Res.

 

2 hours ago, Super Atom said:

You know what would be cool? Just making fly faster instead of requiring another power.

Yes, please.  Even with Afterburner, I'm usually the slowest member of the team.  And there's no way I'm going to sacrifice defense powers/sets to pick yet another travel power (à la @Apparition).