Crab Pet Slotting

[tidge]

I'm running a lvl 50 Crabbermind with 6-pets: the sixth is the Epic Patron Blaster from the Mace pool. This toon has perma-hasten, and the global recharges are timed such that the T2 Disruptors and the T3 Blaster have recharged in under 4 minutes. My experience at my difficulty settings (usually 0x8) is that the T2 and T3 are reasonably well-behaved in that they stay close to me and rarely get wiped out before their timer expires, so I don't have extra recharge in those powers.

 

I'm curious to read other Crab's approach to the pets. Here is the slotting I'm working with for these three pets:

 

T1 (Summon Spiderlings) - 6-slots

Level 35: Summon Spiderlings

• (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
• (36) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
• (36) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (36) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
• (37) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown
• (50) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up

T2 (Call Reinforcements) - 5-slots
Level 38: Call Reinforcements

• (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
• (39) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
• (39) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (39) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
• (40) Edict of the Master - Defense Bonus

 
T3 (Summon Blaster) - 4-slots
Level 47: Summon Blaster

•  (A)Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
•  (48) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
•  (48) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
•  (48) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets

 

The rest of this build is pretty tight; the power choices are getting me the Global Recharge I want and I at most could sacrifice a single Proc slot to get an extra slot for the build, but obviously I can move slots among the pets. How do other Crabs feel about this slotting? The Crab pets are all at level 35+, so 4-slotting Expedient Reinforcement as the core of each tier is the no-brainer given that the 4th set bonus is 6.25% Global Recharge.

 

My theory is to have the extra Overwhelming Force damage/knockdown and %Build Up in the T3 because there are three of them and they recharge faster than the other pets.

 

The 40' Edict of the Master Pet Defense (along with my other powers) brings them up to over 25% defenses (from 20% defenses) which definitely feels like it is keeping them in the fight (when they stay close to me!)

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by tidge
clean up formatting

[Omega-202]

36 minutes ago, tidge said:

I'm running a lvl 50 Crabbermind with 6-pets: the sixth is the Epic Patron Blaster from the Mace pool. This toon has perma-hasten, and the global recharges are timed such that the T2 Disruptors and the T3 Blaster have recharged in under 3 minutes. My experience at my difficulty settings (usually 0x8) is that the T2 and T3 are reasonably well-behaved in that they stay close to me and rarely get wiped out before their timer expires, so I don't have extra recharge in those powers.

 

I'm curious to read other Crab's approach to the pets. Here is the slotting I'm working with for these three pets:

 

T1 (Summon Spiderlings) - 6-slots

Level 35: Summon Spiderlings

• (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
• (36) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
• (36) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (36) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
• (37) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown
• (50) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up

T2 (Call Reinforcements) - 5-slots
Level 38: Call Reinforcements

• (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
• (39) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
• (39) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (39) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
• (40) Edict of the Master - Defense Bonus

 
T3 (Summon Blaster) - 4-slots
Level 47: Summon Blaster

•  (A)Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
•  (48) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
•  (48) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
•  (48) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets

 

The rest of this build is pretty tight; the power choices are getting me the Global Recharge I want and I at most could sacrifice a single Proc slot to get an extra slot for the build, but obviously I can move slots among the pets. How do other Crabs feel about this slotting? The Crab pets are all at level 35+, so 4-slotting Expedient Reinforcement as the core of each tier is the no-brainer given that the 4th set bonus is 6.25% Global Recharge.

 

My theory is to have the extra Overwhelming Force damage/knockdown and %Build Up in the T3 because there are three of them and they recharge faster than the other pets.

 

The 40' Edict of the Master Pet Defense (along with my other powers) brings them up to over 25% defenses (from 20% defenses) which definitely feels like it is keeping them in the fight (when they stay close to me!)

 

The Overwhelming Force proc is a good call in the Spiderlings, but I am not a huge fan of the BU proc because they are not that great of a source of damage.  They are -1 to you, so running at +4/8, they are -4 to the enemy even after accounting for the Incarnate shift.  That extra level drop over the other pets means they do ~75% of base damage in comparison.  The level differential means they are not going to do a ton of damage, and they only have 2 attacks, so in a single attack rotation, they'll be lucky to make use of the 5 second buff on a single attack.  Most of the time, they'll proc it on Burst, then spend the 5 seconds of BU waiting for Burst to recharge or use it to run in and claw the enemy.  

 

Personally, I slot mine for straight defense in all three:

 

Level 35:    Summon Spiderlings    
 (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
 (40) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
 (40) Expedient Reinforcement - Damage/Endurance
 (40) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (42) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets
 (42) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge

Level 38:    Call Reinforcements    
 (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
 (42) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (43) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
 (43) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
 (43) Call to Arms - Defense Bonus Aura for Pets
 (45) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Recharge/Accuracy

Level 47:    Summon Striker    
 (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
 (48) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
 (48) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
 (48) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (50) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Recharge
 (50) Edict of the Master - Defense Bonus

 

This gives me 2 Defense auras, a Resist aura and maxed damage and recharge, as well as plenty of accuracy to make sure they actually hit.  With double manuevers and Support Hybrid running, the pets are basically defense capped.  The Disruptors and Striker are perma with more than a few extra seconds of leeway and the whole crew does a great job of spreading aggro while basically never getting hit.  

[Redlynne]

In my case, for my Huntsman (Crab) builds, I went for a full 6 slots of Call to Arms and Expedient Reinforcement because I wanted the 6-slot set bonuses to Defense for my Soldier, in addition to the 4-slot global recharge set bonuses.  So that's a slightly different purpose/constraint than what you're working under here.

 

If you're going to frankenslot like you have then the Overwhelming Force and Soulbound Allegiance Build Up procs slotted into Spiderlings is simply brilliant.

[tidge]

18 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

The Overwhelming Force proc is a good call in the Spiderlings, but I am not a huge fan of the BU proc because they are not that great of a source of damage.  They are -1 to you, so running at +4/8, they are -4 to the enemy even after accounting for the Incarnate shift.  That extra level drop over the other pets means they do ~75% of base damage in comparison.  The level differential means they are not going to do a ton of damage, and they only have 2 attacks, so in a single attack rotation, they'll be lucky to make use of the 5 second buff on a single attack.  Most of the time, they'll proc it on Burst, then spend the 5 seconds of BU waiting for Burst to recharge or use it to run in and claw the enemy.  

 

(snip)

 

This gives me 2 Defense auras, a Resist aura and maxed damage and recharge, as well as plenty of accuracy to make sure they actually hit.  With double manuevers and Support Hybrid running, the pets are basically defense capped.  The Disruptors and Striker are perma with more than a few extra seconds of leeway and the whole crew does a great job of spreading aggro while basically never getting hit.  

Thanks for the feedback!

 

I don't usually run at +4/8. When I do, it is with teams and I'm not really relying on the pets for damage. Solo, I'm either running +0/8 or +1/8. I like the drops more than XP, and I'm not looking for uber-challenges at this point in my CoH life!

 

Having disclosed that, I take your point about the number of attacks in the Spiderlings. I haven't been watching the pet combat logs, but the Spiderlings are crazy about rushing into close combat, and when I just have them out I can hear what attacks they are making so I know they are using both attacks in rapid succession. I can also see the Build Up triggering on their buffs, and I certainly see them knocking down opponents. The question is: would it be better to slot the Build Up proc on the (two) Disruptors instead? I feel like slotting the T1 pets is generally better:

• I have the T1 pets at a lower level when exemplared (only 3 levels lower, so not much)
• There are 3 T1 pets as opposed to 2 T2
• I wanted to boost the accuracy and damage of the T3 pets rather than just incrementing the accuracy/damage of the higher tier pets.

 

If I had the extra slots, I would definitely consider add the Call To Arms: Defense Aura. I have a question here: The in-game text indicates that this is only 20' (as opposed to 40'), do you find this makes a difference? The Spiderlings activate berserker-mode at times; this is understandable given their attacks. I give some extra boost to the pets via Grant Invisibility, which would otherwise be a mule power for Luck of the Gambler Global Recharge (as is Invisibility, my lvl 50 power choice)

 

Boring paragraph on personal power decisions hidden:

Spoiler

As I wrote, my build is very tight on slots: Trying to come up with 3 extra slots (to 6-slot all three pet powers) would cost me precious global recharge bonuses (either because I break a set bonus or sacrifice a power that is contributing to Global Recharge) or positional defenses (same effect as Global Recharge). Even sacrificing the single travel power (Sorcery's Mystic Flight, which is where the Knockback Protection is slotted) for a different pool's power (e.g. Hover or Combat Jumping, which could take a fifth LotG) doesn't seem like a good trade-off: I *like* having a true travel power and then the (four) extra slots would all come from a purple set. Three to boost the pets and then the fourth to recover Knockback protection.

 

[Neiska]

to add to the conversation, is there any way to calculate pet defensive values like defense and reistance? if not in mids i cant find their values listed anywhere. Would be nice to figure out whats required with various setups to softcap them. everything i try they still get steamrolled on 4/8.

[tidge]

11 minutes ago, Neiska said:

to add to the conversation, is there any way to calculate pet defensive values like defense and reistance? if not in mids i cant find their values listed anywhere. Would be nice to figure out whats required with various setups to softcap them. everything i try they still get steamrolled on 4/8.

The Spiderlings have inherent 20% resistance against Smashing, Lethal. and 30% resistance to Psionic

The Disruptors have 10% resistance against Smashing/Lethal, 20% against Energy, 30% Psionic

The Blaster has inherent 20% resistance against Smashing, Lethal. and 30% resistance to Psionic

 

Expedient Reinforcement gives 10% resistance across the board.

 

All spiders have 0% inherent defense, so this is easy to figure out!

Edict of the Master gives 5% defense (all)

 

In my build, TT:Maneuvers is providing 15.75% defense (6-slotted with Reactive Defenses) and Maneuvers (2-slotted with LotG) is providing 4.95% defense.

[Neiska]

so taking defense as an example here -

 

(all pets) - base 0%, 5% edict of the master, 15.75% TT:Man, 4.95% Ldr: Man = 25.7%, which means you are missing 19.3% all defense? So how do people softcap defense? I assume with  barrier/support incarnates?

 

just trying to plan out how to softcap def and res pet in mids through math and values is all. 

 

Edit: CTA is another 5% def, Sovereign right is 10% res, and expedient is 10% res too. Which means with both CTA and Edict, you are still missing 14.3% defense. havent ran numbers for resistance yet.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Neiska

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

So how do people softcap defense? I assume with  barrier/support incarnates?

You can eek out some more defense for the Crab pets by different slotting in each Maneuvers, and IIRC Grant Invisibility also has a base 5% bonus. I think the actual answer is to team with other players!

[twozerofoxtrot]

 

On 3/7/2020 at 6:59 AM, Omega-202 said:

This gives me 2 Defense auras, a Resist aura and maxed damage and recharge, as well as plenty of accuracy to make sure they actually hit.  With double manuevers and Support Hybrid running, the pets are basically defense capped.  The Disruptors and Striker are perma with more than a few extra seconds of leeway and the whole crew does a great job of spreading aggro while basically never getting hit.  

Saw your comment, and it reminded me of a conversation I recently read in the Discord #arachnos-soldier channel:

 

I'm a newcomer to the AT, so I don't know who is right here, but just wanted to point out that you might not be getting that bonus you think you're getting from Support Hybrid.

[tidge]

I just checked Support Total Core Hybrid and it adds 8.00% Defense to everything except Ranged & Psionic (as advertised). It is also boosting Damage and Accuracy.

 

My build is really tight with both slots and powers, but I am tempted to respec out of my lvl 49 power (Invisibility, with a LotG +Recharge mule) for pool Tactics to boost the ToHit of the pets by another 13%. I like having Invisibility on demand, but aside from some occasional sneaking I'm not convinced it is getting me much.

[Omega-202]

14 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

Saw your comment, and it reminded me of a conversation I recently read in the Discord #arachnos-soldier channel:

 

I'm a newcomer to the AT, so I don't know who is right here, but just wanted to point out that you might not be getting that bonus you think you're getting from Support Hybrid.

I am aware.  I use the larger radius 8% boost (Radial Embodiment), not the bonus pet defense (Core Embodiment).  The 8% bonus works, based on my last check with a power analyzer.  If I recall, the pets were at about 40% defense (~21% from double manuevers, 10% from double auras and 8% from Support).  Add on a single teammate running Manuevers (which is 99% of teams) and they're capped.  

[Omega-202]

14 hours ago, tidge said:

I just checked Support Total Core Hybrid and it adds 8.00% Defense to everything except Ranged & Psionic (as advertised). It is also boosting Damage and Accuracy.

 

My build is really tight with both slots and powers, but I am tempted to respec out of my lvl 49 power (Invisibility, with a LotG +Recharge mule) for pool Tactics to boost the ToHit of the pets by another 13%. I like having Invisibility on demand, but aside from some occasional sneaking I'm not convinced it is getting me much.

FYI, if my math is right, the extra Tactics will only help the Spiderlings at max difficulty, if you're slotted with respectable Acc slotting on the pet themselves (~65%).  At +3, the PPP and Disruptors should be accuracy capped (97%) and the Spiderlings would be at 82%.  But after a Suppression volley's -Def the Spiderlings are up to ~90%.  With Support Hybrid running, they're also accuracy capped.  

 

In summary, double Tactics is only worth it if you're running +4 or +3 and also dealing with a bunch of -tohit, + def on the enemy or if you don't have sufficient accuracy slotting on your pets.

[Redlynne]

6 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

In summary, double Tactics is only worth it

... when you need it ... and isn't worth it when you don't ... ?

[Omega-202]

1 minute ago, Redlynne said:

... when you need it ... and isn't worth it when you don't ... ?

The "when you need it" is under the following conditions:

1.  Max Difficulty; and

2.  You underslotted accuracy in your pets; and

3a.  The enemy has substantial -ToHit that can land on you through your substantial defenses; AND/OR

3b.  The enemy has substantial +Def.  

 

The biggest one is 2.  In my opinion, 2 should never be an issue.  I can't think of many excuses for not to being able to swing at least 65% accuracy in the pets.

[Redlynne]

52 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

I can't think of many excuses for not to being able to swing at least 65% accuracy in the pets.

Level 35:    Summon Spiderlings    
 (A) Call to Arms - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 27
 (36) Call to Arms - Accuracy/Damage: Level 27
 (36) Call to Arms - Damage/Endurance: Level 27
 (36) Call to Arms - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 27
 (37) Call to Arms - Endurance/Damage/Recharge: Level 27
 (37) Call to Arms - Defense Bonus Aura for Pets: Level 10

Level 38:    Call Reinforcements    
 (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 31
 (39) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage: Level 31
 (39) Expedient Reinforcement - Damage/Endurance: Level 31
 (39) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 31
 (40) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge: Level 31
 (40) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets: Level 30

 

Spiderlings accuracy enhancement = 58.98% from slots

Call Reinforcements accuracy enhancement = 61.60 from slots only

Set bonuses can deliver the rest of the "needed" Accuracy to reach 65% (I suppose) ...

[Omega-202]

4 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Level 35:    Summon Spiderlings    
 (A) Call to Arms - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 27
 (36) Call to Arms - Accuracy/Damage: Level 27
 (36) Call to Arms - Damage/Endurance: Level 27
 (36) Call to Arms - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 27
 (37) Call to Arms - Endurance/Damage/Recharge: Level 27
 (37) Call to Arms - Defense Bonus Aura for Pets: Level 10

Level 38:    Call Reinforcements    
 (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 31
 (39) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage: Level 31
 (39) Expedient Reinforcement - Damage/Endurance: Level 31
 (39) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 31
 (40) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge: Level 31
 (40) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets: Level 30

 

Spiderlings accuracy enhancement = 58.98% from slots

Call Reinforcements accuracy enhancement = 61.60 from slots only

Set bonuses can deliver the rest of the "needed" Accuracy to reach 65% (I suppose) ...

We've previously discussed my lack of understanding for you not attuning your enhancements, so I'm not going to rehash it here,  but I'll just restate for any other readers: if you're not going to boost them, there's no rational reason not to attune them.

[Vulpoid]

On 3/24/2020 at 12:32 PM, Omega-202 said:

 

In summary, double Tactics is only worth it if you're running +4 or +3 and also dealing with a bunch of -tohit, + def on the enemy or if you don't have sufficient accuracy slotting on your pets.

...Or ..Teaming!

[Redlynne]

WHAAAAAAAAAAT ... !?!?!?????

 

Your auras affect OTHER PLAYERS????

How does that even WORK???

 

</sarcasm>

[Omega-202]

On 3/27/2020 at 10:32 AM, Vulpoid said:

...Or ..Teaming!

That would require even less of an accuracy investment from your teammates because they're not suffering from the pet accuracy penalty, or the Spiderling's level penalty.  If teammates didn't come to the party with enough accuracy slotted such that your 10-15% from TTL isn't enough, then you're dragging an anchor.

 

On 3/27/2020 at 10:56 AM, Redlynne said:

WHAAAAAAAAAAT ... !?!?!?????

 

Your auras affect OTHER PLAYERS????

How does that even WORK???

 

</sarcasm>

If you did the math, you'd see that your teammates would have to be pants-on-head dumb to need double tactics from you.  But, being that we're getting snippy, I'm talking to the person with some stupid addiction to slotting underleveled IOs, so whatever.  You do you, and continue to give out bad advice.

[balor]

On 3/7/2020 at 9:59 AM, Omega-202 said:

 

Spoiler

 

The Overwhelming Force proc is a good call in the Spiderlings, but I am not a huge fan of the BU proc because they are not that great of a source of damage.  They are -1 to you, so running at +4/8, they are -4 to the enemy even after accounting for the Incarnate shift.  That extra level drop over the other pets means they do ~75% of base damage in comparison.  The level differential means they are not going to do a ton of damage, and they only have 2 attacks, so in a single attack rotation, they'll be lucky to make use of the 5 second buff on a single attack.  Most of the time, they'll proc it on Burst, then spend the 5 seconds of BU waiting for Burst to recharge or use it to run in and claw the enemy.  

 

Personally, I slot mine for straight defense in all three:

 

Level 35:    Summon Spiderlings    
 (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
 (40) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
 (40) Expedient Reinforcement - Damage/Endurance
 (40) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (42) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets
 (42) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge

Level 38:    Call Reinforcements    
 (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
 (42) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (43) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
 (43) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
 (43) Call to Arms - Defense Bonus Aura for Pets
 (45) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Recharge/Accuracy

Level 47:    Summon Striker    
 (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
 (48) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
 (48) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
 (48) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (50) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Recharge
 (50) Edict of the Master - Defense Bonus

 

This gives me 2 Defense auras, a Resist aura and maxed damage and recharge, as well as plenty of accuracy to make sure they actually hit.  With double manuevers and Support Hybrid running, the pets are basically defense capped.  The Disruptors and Striker are perma with more than a few extra seconds of leeway and the whole crew does a great job of spreading aggro while basically never getting hit.  

Ok that is an interesting concept as I have something similar on one of my MM.  Do you have a full build posted?

[Omega-202]

1 hour ago, balor said:

Ok that is an interesting concept as I have something similar on one of my MM.  Do you have a full build posted?

 

**Edit** I see that the meme may have been unclear in combination with the thread title in the link below.  My build is in the thread below in the third post.  

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Omega-202

[Maelwys]

On 3/24/2020 at 4:32 PM, Omega-202 said:

In summary, double Tactics is only worth it if you're running +4 or +3 and also dealing with a bunch of -tohit, + def on the enemy or if you don't have sufficient accuracy slotting on your pets.

The perception bonus stacks too actually.

Admittedly it's only really noticible in specific niche situations, but if memory serves (and a check on https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Limits#Stealth_and_Perception backs me up here) a VEAT running 2x Tactics and a rectified reticle IO is the only toon that can spot a Stealth-Capped Stalker solo at a reasonable distance (The Stalker lights up when they're 117.6ft away, as opposed to 10ft away for regular mortals). I remember funning around with them in RV back on live.