Dual Blades Scrapper - is it any good?

[LordMike40]

I'm brand new to City of Heroes/Villains. I'm interested in the scrapper archetype and I want one that's good for pvp. I made a villain that looks like Kabal from Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 with dual wield/regeneration for healing however I read somewhere that dual blades does crappy damage. Does dual blades have any use or is it just something no one uses?

[oldskool]

All of the sets have use. 

I happen to like Dual Blades, but I don't PvP.  

[Werner]

Dual Blades does very good damage in PvE. I don't PvP, so this is only an educated guess, but for some common Dual Blades attack chains, that damage output is dependent on a combo system, and I doubt you'll often land a combo in PvP. I would guess that PvP is about the biggest single attacks you can get that are not dependent on previous attacks in any way.

[Dreamboat]

Can only echo what the other posters have said. Dual Blades definitely does solid damage in PvE, but whilst I don't PvP, I can't imagine a set that depends on hitting combos for a lot of its effects does well in an environment where everyone is as buffed to the gills as you are and can react to what you're doing in a way the AI can't. Seems like the opponent is just gonna get to where they need to be a lot faster than you are. Another part of that is that Dual Blades animations can be on the lengthy side, especially for the harder-hitting stuff.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Dreamboat

[hejtmane]

The issue is pvp is not pve so what is good in pve sustain damage is not good in pvp  coming from 20+ years of MMO's yes all the way back to Ultima Online and including games built around PVP DAOC, Rift etc burst damage is the name of the game generally in any pvp outlet and anything that slows, stuns etc the enemy. When looking at any melee AT you want quick animating burst damage attacks in pvp

[Without_Pause]

PvP is about burst damage and damage types less defended against, Neither work for DB. Psy is a better melee set if you are looking for PvP.

[Crysis]

On 3/10/2020 at 6:39 PM, LordMike40 said:

I'm brand new to City of Heroes/Villains. I'm interested in the scrapper archetype and I want one that's good for pvp. I made a villain that looks like Kabal from Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 with dual wield/regeneration for healing however I read somewhere that dual blades does crappy damage. Does dual blades have any use or is it just something no one uses?

I just retired my DB/Ninja scrapper after fully purpling it out, T4’d all incarnates etc.

 

It played just fine in PVE.  Could solo many AV’s if slowly.  Very sturdy/durable and most of /Nin works well with few slots leaving you room to six slot all attacks.

 

But it kills slowly.  Pylon times weren’t even good let alone great.  It’s damage type is highly resisted in the game and you really need the combos to do any spike damage.  
 

I built it for theme and looks.  I wouldn’t recommend it for PVP and likely wouldn’t build/invest heavily in another for PVE either.  Looks badass in combat as a “blade dancer” kind of toon but that’s it.

 

Its basically the same issues as faced by Dual Pistols AT’s.  All hat, no cowboy.

[ScarySai]

@CrysisWere you not running the -res procs in sweeping and ablating? With the attack vitals chain (lower recharge) and the Blind>Ablating>Sweep>Ablating chains (high recharge), you should be doing some amazing damage on things like AVs and such.

 

Yes OP, DB is very good once you invest in it. I don't like it personally, but it gets good results overall.

Edited March 13, 2020 by ScarySai

[Crysis]

13 hours ago, ScarySai said:

@CrysisWere you not running the -res procs in sweeping and ablating? With the attack vitals chain (lower recharge) and the Blind>Ablating>Sweep>Ablating chains (high recharge), you should be doing some amazing damage on things like AVs and such.

 

Yes OP, DB is very good once you invest in it. I don't like it personally, but it gets good results overall.

No I had Superior ATO's six slotted in both those two powers. 

 

Here's my build, I posted it before I retired the toon.  I'm all ears for how to get the damage output up, but didn't really get any pointers.  As is, it was OK but not great, which is per my statement above.

 

Welcome any feedback you may have.

 

 

[ScarySai]

I'll give it a look when I get home tonight and edit this post with my suggestions.

[Crysis]

30 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

I'll give it a look when I get home tonight and edit this post with my suggestions.

Thank you!

[ScarySai]

6 hours ago, Crysis said:

Thank you!

I made as little changes as possible to your power selection, despite really not agreeing with the sorc pool as a decision. If you want me to get rid of them, I'd be able to make a much better build overall.

 

With optimized slotting, however, I managed to fit in 1k cuts and give you a much better slotting for the build. as it was. Crit proc was worthless in nimble slash, as you never use nimble. Blinding starts all of your combos, on the other hand.

 

Attack vitals will be your main combo, though ageless will allow you to briefly run blind>Ablating>sweep>ablating,.

 

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Edited March 14, 2020 by ScarySai

[BrandX]

What exactly are you considering, not a good dps time?  

[Crysis]

17 hours ago, ScarySai said:

I made as little changes as possible to your power selection, despite really not agreeing with the sorc pool as a decision. If you want me to get rid of them, I'd be able to make a much better build overall.

 

With optimized slotting, however, I managed to fit in 1k cuts and give you a much better slotting for the build. as it was. Crit proc was worthless in nimble slash, as you never use nimble. Blinding starts all of your combos, on the other hand.

 

Attack vitals will be your main combo, though ageless will allow you to briefly run blind>Ablating>sweep>ablating,.

 

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First off, thanks for taking time to look/adjust.  I like what you've done here, swapping in Thousand Cuts for Moonbeam.  I do like Moonbeam, it hits pretty hard (and I was surprised to see it could crit!) but it's always just used against runners, and I already had Arcane Bolt for that.

 

On the balance, you've given me about the same defense, little better Resists in a couple of areas, for more damage, which is exactly what I wanted.

To answer your question, I am not married to Sorcery pool.  I took it only for the layered defensive capabilities of having Rune of Protection.  When active, that caps my Resists for S/L and takes all the others well above mid 40's as well.  But I've only found it useful typically in iTrials when I'm facing overwhelming Defense Debuffing.  

 

If you didn't have to work around that, what other pool choices would you make?

 

Thanks again for taking time!

[ScarySai]

I'd probably start with something like this, then play around with slotting after field testing it on Brainstorm.

 

 

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[hejtmane]

Back in the day before even Incarnates shredded monkey had DB in the top 10 on pylon test many times. DB works great for PVE and the damage is fine but the issue  PVP and PVE are not looking for the same thing. Taking out a bunch o lt's and below burst is always nice but for the big dogs it is about sustain damage and debuffing the -res procs etc. PVP is all about which attack is the least resisted and has the biggest burst it has always been that for pvp in MMO's since even the ultimate online days running on dial up modems.

 

PVE dual blades rocks pvp not so much

Edited March 15, 2020 by hejtmane

[s3ri0us]

On 3/11/2020 at 12:39 AM, LordMike40 said:

I'm brand new to City of Heroes/Villains. I'm interested in the scrapper archetype and I want one that's good for pvp. I made a villain that looks like Kabal from Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 with dual wield/regeneration for healing however I read somewhere that dual blades does crappy damage. Does dual blades have any use or is it just something no one uses?

Dual Blades are not for everyone. Many ppl prefer to just smash random buttons and watch the magic happen. I like that too when i'm bored but i like to use combos too. I made this build for my scrapper, still miss the 2 ATOs, a set of Luck of the Gambler if i remember correct and i am at T3 of the alpha slot so i'm not done yet and can't tell you about the full potential. Until now though i feel like i'm not doing a lot of dmg sometimes especialy when i miss an attack of a combo. I guess if you don't care about the combos you can slot procs in your attacks and just do the fighting the normal way but i'm not a fan of procs so i'm not the one to talk about their potential. I'll leave this here if you want to get some ideas... 
 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dual Blades
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Nimble Slash -- SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprCrtStr-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprCrtStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(9)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(3), RedFrt-Def(3)
Level 2: Ablating Strike -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(9), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(13)
Level 4: Agile -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(15), LucoftheG-Def(15), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(17), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 6: Typhoon's Edge -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(19), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(19), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Obl-%Dam(23)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23), Rct-ResDam%(25), Rct-Def(25), Ksm-ToHit+(27)
Level 10: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(50)
Level 12: Blinding Feint -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(29), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Mk'Bit-Dam%(31)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 16: Dodge -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(33), RedFrt-Def(33)
Level 18: Vengeful Slice -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(34), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mk'Bit-Dam%(36)
Level 20: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 22: Focused Senses -- Ksm-Def/EndRdx(A), Ksm-Def/Rchg(36), Ksm-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Sweeping Strike -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(46), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(46), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Obl-%Dam(48)
Level 28: Lucky -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37), LucoftheG-Def(37), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(37), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 30: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(39), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(39), Ags-ResDam(40), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(40), Ags-Psi/Status(40)
Level 32: One Thousand Cuts -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(42), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(42), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Obl-%Dam(43)
Level 35: Weave -- Ksm-Def/EndRdx(A), Ksm-Def/Rchg(43), Ksm-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 38: Evasion -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(45), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(45), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(45), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 41: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(50)
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Carnival Radial Superior Ally 
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
------------

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[plainguy]

On 3/11/2020 at 11:10 AM, hejtmane said:

The issue is pvp is not pve so what is good in pve sustain damage is not good in pvp  coming from 20+ years of MMO's yes all the way back to Ultima Online and including games built around PVP DAOC, Rift etc burst damage is the name of the game generally in any pvp outlet and anything that slows, stuns etc the enemy. When looking at any melee AT you want quick animating burst damage attacks in pvp

Ultima Online was hard core PvP..  You died.. You lost your stuff.. You could loose your house key as well and loose your house. I mean you were scared to go into dungeons and the woods.. Heck the edge of the cities were ruthless.  GREAT, GREAT stuff..  Nothing better then being new and seeing someone in RED name and wonder what that meant only to find out what it meant.. lol..  I honestly say it was a great learning experience. You learned to fight with less and you did everything you could to fight and win. They were like running gun battles.  Scams and traps.. Loot a dead body turn gray and now be free to be attacked.  Provoking 3 bears to attack the other person as a naked bard. 

I wish other players could have seen the craziness that went on. 

DAOC was really great as well. The massive battles at a keeps.  30 on 30 fights.

 

 

[hejtmane]

On 3/27/2020 at 1:29 PM, plainguy said:

Ultima Online was hard core PvP..  You died.. You lost your stuff.. You could loose your house key as well and loose your house. I mean you were scared to go into dungeons and the woods.. Heck the edge of the cities were ruthless.  GREAT, GREAT stuff..  Nothing better then being new and seeing someone in RED name and wonder what that meant only to find out what it meant.. lol..  I honestly say it was a great learning experience. You learned to fight with less and you did everything you could to fight and win. They were like running gun battles.  Scams and traps.. Loot a dead body turn gray and now be free to be attacked.  Provoking 3 bears to attack the other person as a naked bard. 

I wish other players could have seen the craziness that went on. 

DAOC was really great as well. The massive battles at a keeps.  30 on 30 fights.

 

 

The two best things I did in Ultima Online is cause a patch I was the first person to start stealing from monsters while other people where fighting them; literally could not log that guy on for over a week oh and stealing from monsters keept you blue. It was funny my buddy called me is his like don't log on guards a thief I just had a bunch of people ask me if I knew who that was.

 

Then the other was the house change where you could make people friends or not to enter the house I hooked up with a group I would try to steal from a person run and hide in the house doorway as soon as they find me they run over me get stuck in the house changed the settings and we kill the person and loot their body.

 

It was and still the only true sand box MMO I ever played and you always teleported to your house from the bank all your recall runes are to other safe places that you kept 30 copies on in the bank

 

Corp Por for the win

Edited March 30, 2020 by hejtmane

[oOStaticOo]

If you want to do PvP I would recommend anything with Toxic, Neg En, and Psy as those are the least resisted types in the game.  Tox and Psy being tops.  Dual Blades is one of those, "It's fun!" set.  It's not the most powerful and doesn't do the most damage, but the animations are fun and the combos are neat if you plan them right.  I tried it for a bit and other than concept builds, I usually stay away from it.