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The Mastermind Wishlist: Completed, Uncut, and En Masse


Enhancement Extension: For the below, assume the ATO def/res aura's will be installed into Supremacy scaling up to level 50.  

78 members have voted

  1. 1. What Changes to MM ATO's would you prefer?

    • None, fine as are.
    • Change the Aura's into damage procs
    • Change the Aura's into debuff procs
    • Change the Aura's into pet debuff res procs
    • Allow to be slotted into attacking primary powers
    • Do not prefer any listed suggestions.
  2. 2. What Changes to existing MM Aura procs would you prefer?

    • None, fine as are.
    • Change auras into damage procs
    • Change auras into debuff procs
    • Change auras into pet debuff res procs
    • Include damage proc
    • Include a debuff proc
    • Include a debuff res proc
    • Do not prefer any listed suggestions.
  3. 3. What Mastermind IO's would you like to see added?

    • None, fine as are.
    • Posting suggestion in the thread!


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2 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

Ugh, don't like this myself.  Too long to wait to get a complete set of pets.  I'd much rather have at the current level or even earlier.

 

Perhaps the "Supremacy Proc" could be made variable based on level, so that it doesn't grant the full T2 upgrade immediately, but grants some lesser version of it, until the MM is at level 32.  For example, longer recharge times on the T2 powers, or reduced damage and control on the T2 powers.  Just to give the MM something to look forward too as level increases.

 

Except you don't get a "complete" set of pets until you get that other upgrafd power at 32. Most MM pets are honestly pretty bad until then. Having the Mannion and lt pets with all their powers would be more effective than having the big pet but all pets only having their tier 1 powers.

 

And if you've never played a controller this is nothing new, but the way the pets play this is basically like how melee sets or ranged blast sets get their big power/nukes at 32, but would at least make the MMs less useless in the earlier levels.

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25 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Except you don't get a "complete" set of pets until you get that other upgrafd power at 32. Most MM pets are honestly pretty bad until then. Having the Mannion and lt pets with all their powers would be more effective than having the big pet but all pets only having their tier 1 powers.

 

And if you've never played a controller this is nothing new, but the way the pets play this is basically like how melee sets or ranged blast sets get their big power/nukes at 32, but would at least make the MMs less useless in the earlier levels.

Agreed with this point @gameboy1234. Assuming you get them fully upgraded, I would rather have that than the T3 pet at that range. Rocking a squad of 5 fully decked out pets + ideally a new power in the mix would be worth it IMO. 

 

Something like....

  • 1. T1 Attack
  • 1. T1 Pet
  • 2. T2 Attack
  • 6. NEW power - This would be thematic per set, but gives us a lot of wiggle room for how certain sets could "catch up".
  • 8. T3 Attack
  • 12. T2 Pet
  • 18. UPGRADE POWER - the 1st upgrade is now automatic. This upgrade still behaves like the prior 32 spot, but also provides some sort of temporary boost to your pets when used on them at any time. The recharge will be adjusted to be slower however. Makes the actual upgrade power not as useless / a tax.
  • 26. "Unique" power (Soul Extraction, Repair, etc)
  • 32. T3 Pet

 

 

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On 7/25/2020 at 10:03 AM, Galaxy Brain said:

18. UPGRADE POWER - the 1st upgrade is now automatic. This upgrade still behaves like the prior 32 spot, but also provides some sort of temporary boost to your pets when used on them at any time. The recharge will be adjusted to be slower however. Makes the actual upgrade power not as useless / a tax.

I imagine this would be good for people that have been calling for the upgrades to be automatic. Making room for a new power as well as adding some auto element seems like a good move.

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32 minutes ago, Monos King said:

I imagine this would be good for people that have been calling for the upgrades to be automatic. Making room for a new power as well as adding some auto element seems like a good move.

Except this still needs to be auto as well. Both upgrades should be inherent in the pets naturally to have their powers. This extra power honestly I would prefer another aoe, and then a single target ability at level 6, giving 2 more blast set options. So it would help bridge the gap better on pets that are weak to ST, or weak to aoe, so you can pick one (or both) of  them up to even out your damage, and the extra aoe can help you take aggro as well. (or some sets like necro which don't even get an aoe ouch)

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12 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Except this still needs to be auto as well. Both upgrades should be inherent in the pets naturally to have their powers. This extra power honestly I would prefer another aoe, and then a single target ability at level 6, giving 2 more blast set options. So it would help bridge the gap better on pets that are weak to ST, or weak to aoe, so you can pick one (or both) of  them up to even out your damage, and the extra aoe can help you take aggro as well. (or some sets like necro which don't even get an aoe ouch)

Well 1) Some people actually enjoy the equip/upgrade animations and find them to be more immersive.

2) Making them both auto voids the possibility of allowing the remaining upgrade to be an additional buff, or do something additional, because being auto would make said possible buffs instant and no  trade-off, and thus be too powerful.

 

As for the additional powers, I am more in favor of making them a unique ability that is in line with the theme of the primary, like a passive zombie summoning aura from slain enemies for necro or an ammo swap for mercs. I'd like to see the MM primaries get more identity.

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1 hour ago, Joethegreat said:

Im not super adept at the numerical details of MM. I just want to pop in and say Id like to see a boost to mercs. Just a reduction on their cooldowns and an increase to their damage would be fine. My two cents.

Check this out and comment if you like the proposal:

 

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Looks like good changes. Commando definitely needs help. Only thing Id be nervous about is that field specialist over seruming the other pets and causing a catastrophic debuff scenario.

 

Im all about flavor as well, but I have no idea what it takes programming wise to make flavor changes lol. Was imagining a change that gives the Mercs some identity between them. Making it more like a Band of Brothers scenario; a sniper, a grenadier, a medic, a heavy, a regular soldier of course, maybe even a "second in command" that offers targeted buffs in the form of orders. But thats all just me spitballing.

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12 minutes ago, Joethegreat said:

Only thing Id be nervous about is that field specialist over seruming the other pets and causing a catastrophic debuff scenario.

The debuff isn't able to stack in that proposal.

 

I'd like to see a diverse tally of differently equipped mercs myself, but I don't know that that would even succeed with the current primary set up. Having a bomber and sniper amongst the t1 pets for instance would be cool, but probably not very strong considering their modifiers. We'd just have a not so strong AoE dmg, a not so strong sniper, etc. No real focus in the set would mean it's just mediocre in a bunch of things rather than good at a few. I feel like this kind of theme requires a different kind of mastermind set up to really work, perhaps one closer to crabberminds in this case. Being able to switch out strong pets like a "swap ammo" for the t3 or summoning all of them at once for a short time (while being much stronger than now) are ideas I have, but I haven't put much thought into it either.

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Wonder if a dedicated sniper would work if they gave a pet multiple copies of the same 'snipe' power but with different names. Probably just look like snipe1, snipe2, snipe3, but have the exact same stats. Just so he could continue shooting. Would require more intelligent placement I guess.

Grenadier would just get the M30, Teargas, Flashbang, Toxic Web, and I guess whatever other grenade type powers there are.

 

Figure theyd replace the generic t2 guys.

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  • 2 months later

Haven't heard much about MM changes as of now @TheSpiritFox but hopefully that will be looked into sooner than later. 

 

Have updated this thread with more community suggestions.

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I haven't read the entire thread yet, and given my load at work and in personal life, it's likely to be some time before I can.

 

However, I would like to add two suggestions tied to the MM's Inherent since you haven't touched on those yet.

 

1)  A short leash - henchies should NOT leave Supremacy range unless specifically told to, even when Aggressive. Edit:  So the only reasons the henchmen should ever leave Supremacy range is if they are told to go to a location outside of range, or if they are given Attack My Target orders outside of range.  Perhaps the cursor for those commands could be made to change colors if it's outside Supremacy radius. /Edit

 

2)  This one's less well defined than the prior one but IMO as important.  MMs end up with fewer or no pets for various reasons.  Maybe someone wants to play a whip wielding character and pets aren't in the concept, maybe it's a small map and they're asked to leave their T1s behind to prevent crowding, maybe it's a speed run TF and the hencies all die along the way to the end or next objective, and by the time the MM resummons them the fight is over.  So the MM inherent should buff the MM in some fashion when they have fewer/no henchmen out.

 

Discussions I've had with others on the subject of possible buffs range from Supremacy applying to the MM (i.e. the MM auto-buffs themself) when the henchmen aren't out, to the secondary approaching Corrupter numbers but still being weaker, to increased damage, etc.  The discussion has also mentioned this inherent buff taking effect only if the MM didn't take a henchman power, or having the buff gradually increase as fewer henchmen are in play, e.g. if the MM loses 1 T1 they get a tiny buff, or don't summon T1s at all they get a larger buff - same for T2s and it's cumulative.

 

 

Edited by Col. Kernel
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Forgive me is someone mentioned this already. It's a big thread.

 

One, give MM's a way to make group travel powers only affect their own pets. Relying on everyone else to go see Null is unwieldy at best.  Let us make the call and it will open these powers up to MM's for more broad usage.  Think of how awesome it would be to have your bots hovering over an MSR and raining down fire!

 

Two, fix Mercs. Most sets are playable but the abysmal damage of Mercs just ruins the set. Everytime I think about playing mercs, it comes to a halt when I see them firing on a green con mob and making little impression.  I've made a number of posts about fixes. When I get time, I'll dig one up and copy/paste my ideas here.

 

Three. Those Aura IO changes are solid gold. Do it!! It's a huge advantage for sets that have an IO mule power for those auras, like thugs or demons.

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  • 2 weeks later
On 2/23/2021 at 3:00 PM, Monos King said:

Haven't heard much about MM changes as of now @TheSpiritFox but hopefully that will be looked into sooner than later. 

 

Have updated this thread with more community suggestions.

Latest beta patch says they're looking into MM changes. Bumping this fucker back to the top it's time to start talking about MMs again cause they're actively looking at us. 

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1 hour ago, TheSpiritFox said:

Latest beta patch says they're looking into MM changes. Bumping this fucker back to the top it's time to start talking about MMs again cause they're actively looking at us. 

 

I will say, the changes they have on the table (current beta) are far more than @Monos King and I expected! For one, it makes half the mercs changes look tame lol

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1 minute ago, Galaxy Brain said:

 

I will say, the changes they have on the table (current beta) are far more than @Monos King and I expected! For one, it makes half the mercs changes look tame lol

I actually have two mercs and a ninja's MM sitting at level 1 waiting for them to buff those sets into what I consider useability. 

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4 minutes ago, TheSpiritFox said:

I actually have two mercs and a ninja's MM sitting at level 1 waiting for them to buff those sets into what I consider useability. 

You know, Ninja should actually be tested now that resummoning is a breeze... if you can just spam genin fodder..... 

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3 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

 

I will say, the changes they have on the table (current beta) are far more than @Monos King and I expected! For one, it makes half the mercs changes look tame lol

I'd still like to see significant changes to their actual powers but it's definitely going great so far.

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I think as a whole, since pets can not have their powers sped up via recharge nor benefit from any bonuses and powers like hasten, that especially powers like their aoes and holds should have their base recharge times reworked.

 

It would also be nice if issues with pet exemplaring was fixed so that you actually get the +5 amount of pets you would have relative to how other ATs get their powers at +5 which can make a much more dramatic impact.

 

Support debuff powers should also match those of trollers and corruptors, no reason when it's still in secondary form that it should be even less than those of a controller or corruptor (yes buffs remain the same).

 

It also makes sense that all pets, not just MM pets, should remain at equal level to that of the caster.

 

I would also suggest that bodyguard mode, or an alternative mode be introduced to share ALL hp with you and all pets. That way you can use your hp (to which for example if you have a self heal can benefit the pets and regen bonuses etc), and your big pets/medium pets hp to help keep the minnion pets alive better as well, and it would be a more "team" effort for the MM as a whole, rather than just "zerg rush the minnions" only keep the big pet alive etc.

 

And of course taken from the other thread, making the upgrade powers pbaoe, and having pet summons be buffable the second after summoning them rather than having to wait for them to fully summon before you can buff them.

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I also think allowing the MM attacks to slot pet sets would be at least a quick way to address the issue of those sets that don't get a 4th summon to put the defense/resist uniques in, but more thought down the road should be considered regarding that issue as a whole. Some of the suggestions i just gave above would help, but still gives an unfair advantage to thugs/demons/necro for slotting purposes.

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  • 1 month later

Way  back when I first started my "campaign" on the Auras that was the simpler option. The main issue was that people didn't want to feel like they were forced to take an attack for the auras, and it'd still be a lot tax. Most of the ideas worked out from those issues.

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I'll chime in (on yet another thread), that I think a simple approach to revising the MM primaries is to

  • bake in the 'first' set of upgrades to all henchmen, freeing up a power:there is no reason why the higher tier henchmen require an upgrade power that comes before they do.
  • replace the first upgrade power with some sort of (recharge instensive) buff pet (not a henchmen)

The buff pet would then

  • cover some of the gaps caused by downwards level-shifting as more of the T1, T2 henchmen appear
  • allow for slotting of the aura pieces without having to pass on actually improving the performance of henchmen directly via slotting of the summoning powers.

Personally, I don't care if such a 'new' level 6 "Buff pet" has to have certain compromises (for game balance purposes) like

  • how fast will it expire (if ever), or
  • if it has to be a toggle, or
  • if it can be destroyed or not, or
  • will the +Buff affect the MM too? What about teammates?

My suggestion is motivated by the rather odd need to hit high-level henchmen with a lower level "upgrade", and the many primaries that lack a power that can serve as a mule for one-or-more Aura IOs. I'm NOT in the camp of "make upgrades auto", it's just that first (low level) one (appearing before the T2 henchmen) that seems so poorly motivated.

 

As far as animations for a "Buff pet", simply steal the assets from other places like P2W.

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  • 1 year later

Regarding the original topic, I've felt that some MM classes are at a disadvantage for the pet protection auras.  Thugs has Gang War, Necro has that spirit thing, these count as pets and can accept those auras as throw-away slots.  Granted, those are slots you can't use for those special pets directly, but you can still get Gang War's damage about 130 in endgame.  Let's face it, its real job is to spew speed bumps.

 

But other classes which don't get such a pet have no option but to dump them in a primary pet or skip it.  This is unfair to them in my opinion, and makes me skip them, even though MM is my favorite class.  I still play bots tho =D

 

Do not get rid of those auras though!  If you have a clever way to move them so they can apply some other way, especially for the other classes, fine.

 

I don' know what a solution would be for the other classes.  Change one other power to be a mini-pet like Gang War or that spirit thing?  Just flat-out allow it for one of the other powers in that class?

 

Otherwise I have little complaints about MMs in general.  I am one who never, ever, not ever, not no way, not no how, ever takes primary attacks* in an MM.  My job is to manage them while they do the work and I use secondaries.

 

 

* Nemesis Staff once in a while to knock down a runner is fine!

 

 

 

Edited by Norl
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