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TheGentlemanGhostronaut

How to Stalker in Endgame

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Doing a bit of high level content has left be a bit puzzled as to how Stalker works in 50+ stuff, it feels like everything gets minced so quickly that I'm sort of just a worse Scrapper and don't get to really take advantage of what makes Stalker unique.

 

Am I missing something?

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What are your primary and secondary? And what is your build in general? Did you take key epic pool powers such as the snipes?

 

Other than that, people mincing stuff fast, especially on 8 people teams, is not something that affects just stalkers.

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Sounds like you're probably doing the slow assassin's strike as opener rather than using a different big hitter from hide and using the quick version of AS. Do you have the chance to hide ATO in AS? That coupled with the global chance to recharge build up ATO in something you use early will make you more better scrapper than worse. With full teams things die fast but with all the built up crits and rehides you'll be one of the reasons for that. Should be further details in this forum.

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I tend to lead with an AoE if we're moving fast, or since I have the chance for hide proc slotted, if it's recharged I'll use AS and follow it up with either an AoE or my hardest hitting single target attack that's recharged. I don't wait for hidden status, though, so it's usually the fast version of AS and if I don't think the mob will live long enough for the animation on a slow AS I'll lead with Moonbeam on the way in. I also consider it a good problem to have that no mobs in the spawn are lasting 3 seconds for Assassin's Strike to land.

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The only real benefit in a scrapper would be the damage aura which would in part be the main thing you add to a steam rolling team. . I'm not sure it makes it better. I honestly don't judge certain builds or ATs based on steam rolling teams. I have controllers who feel like poor defenders on certain teams. The benefit for me playing a stalker is being able to farm missions for merits and Incarnate salvage. 


Without Pause Claws/wp brute, Nothing But Flowers Plant/storm, Waterpark Water/temp blaster, Sneakers StJ/en stalker,

Current obsession(s): Earth/earth dom, Kat/elec brute.

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Stalkers are def a solo class.  It can be a boss killer if you're doing incarnates all the time, otherwise it's basically for speed running missions.  If you see all other MMOs the ST DPS is good for 2 things: DPsing down the boss or PVP.  Neither is very relevant in COH, which is why they're one of the lost played classes.

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Spawns melt real fast, but the bosses remain a bit longer. Let the others worry about AoE damage, and start with your non-AS heavy hitter on a boss, follow up with fast AS, then an AoE (to fish for instant recharge on Build-up), then back to single-target boss killing.

 

I actually have no problem, but that's because I have either Feral Charge or Lightning Rod to help open the festivities. But I do have a Staff/Rad, and while he's not high enough, I expect that his opener on teams would be Ground Zero with multiple damage procs (400+ damage) rather than a "heavy hitter", then follow with AS and single target on the boss. Staff/DA can open up with a decent amount of AoE via Dark Regeneration slotted with procs followed by the spinning attack... but it's a bit slow, and you may not get to actually do much damage with it before the spawn gets AoEbliterated(tm).

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I thought I would have something to add but.. nope, looks covered. Well done folks.

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I tend to move ahead of the team a bit.  Arrive at the mob a little in advance so you can get a few hits in.  You might want to be sure you can handle the first hit that the mob dishes out.

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Epic aoes are a great opening choice. They are large, have 16 targets and 50% base crit from hide. Then munch down a boss or two. 

 

Your contribution will be decent.

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I've been running an elec/shield stalker in Incarnate material a bit lately (first 50 other than a night widow I've tried it with) and I gotta say that dropping AOE openers into mobs has been quite fun. Hit them with Ion Judgment and Lightning Rod, maybe follow up with Shield Charge before attacking the rest? Makes me happy...

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So there's two paths:

1) Stalkers can have pretty respectable AoE with the epic pool powers, so you can join in on the AoE fest

2) Target ONLY bosses and disregard AoE completely.  AoE is for other people.  Make some targeting macros and chunk down bosses so that by the time the AoE fest is over there's nothing left 8-)

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Personally I play a Stalker like a Scrapper who can choose his moment to start the party.  Close to melee, pop off my AOE opener then on to my Kill Them All rotation moving from spawn to spawn as my toys get broken.  AOE's to kill off the trash, ST attacks to finish off the Bosses and then directly into the next.  Whenever the Hide proc fires off use a heavy hitter ST power or AOE depending on recharge and remaining playmates in proximity.

 

Scrapperlock.  It's not an AT, it's a way of life.

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Guardian Survivor, occasional tanker and player of most AT's.

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On 3/19/2020 at 9:18 AM, DemonWithin said:

I tend to move ahead of the team a bit.  Arrive at the mob a little in advance so you can get a few hits in.  You might want to be sure you can handle the first hit that the mob dishes out.

 

That's how I've been playing my Stalker.  If I wait for the team, my Stalker feels like a second-rate Scrapper.  So I jump a few mobs ahead of the group.  As long as we're all getting XP and drops, that's what matters.

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My stalker is a teleporter and I've made a macro that targets to my target. It makes it easy to leap on the boss's head* and unload however I want - aoe if there's a big cluster, a big single target hit if it's just the boss who needs attention, whatever is most useful. 

 

________________

*unless there's a vertical gap, or they're up some stairs; that can screw up the macro, and then I have to jump up and use it.


See me on Excelsior as Eridanus - Whisperkill - Kid Physics - Ranger Wilde - The Hometown Scrapper - Firewatch - and more!

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On 3/23/2020 at 12:33 PM, Erydanus said:

My stalker is a teleporter and I've made a macro that targets to my target. It makes it easy to leap on the boss's head* and unload however I want - aoe if there's a big cluster, a big single target hit if it's just the boss who needs attention, whatever is most useful. 

 

________________

*unless there's a vertical gap, or they're up some stairs; that can screw up the macro, and then I have to jump up and use it.

I do the same. 

Teleport helps a lot when your target is on the other side of a cloud of particle effects and pets.  This is especially helpful in tight crowded spaces.

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On 3/18/2020 at 12:23 PM, TheGentlemanGhostronaut said:

Proposed Revision:

 

Doing a bit of high level content has left be a bit puzzled as to how Stalker works in 50+ stuff, it feels like everything gets minced so quickly that I'm sort of just a BETTER Scrapper and gets lots more crits and 3x as many build-ups. 

 

 

Proposed fix. 

 

 

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On 3/19/2020 at 9:18 AM, DemonWithin said:

I tend to move ahead of the team a bit.  Arrive at the mob a little in advance so you can get a few hits in.  You might want to be sure you can handle the first hit that the mob dishes out.

Basically this

 

I go full scrapperlock and just charge in front of everyone 

 

The question was 50+, so you should be able to handle alphas from almost all content, depending on secondary of course. 

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5 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Basically this

 

I go full scrapperlock and just charge in front of everyone 

 

The question was 50+, so you should be able to handle alphas from almost all content, depending on secondary of course. 

Basically, you and everyone else has this idea.  Hell, I do this on my controllers and defenders!  Melee toon?  Foggedaboutit, I'm at the next spawn.  Blaster?  I'm eliminating the next spawn.   Yeah, characters are too powerful to league and even 8-man most things.  I hope they come up with more 4-man options (like Summer Block Buster) to add variety and slow-down so many can actually enjoy what they bring to the team.

 

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4 hours ago, r0y said:

Basically, you and everyone else has this idea.  Hell, I do this on my controllers and defenders!  Melee toon?  Foggedaboutit, I'm at the next spawn.  Blaster?  I'm eliminating the next spawn.   Yeah, characters are too powerful to league and even 8-man most things.  I hope they come up with more 4-man options (like Summer Block Buster) to add variety and slow-down so many can actually enjoy what they bring to the team.

 

This is a good point.  If the game were harder, then the added survival of Scrappers (usually) would matter more vs Stalkers.

 

But as it is now, unless its something weird like Rulararu or Incarnate content .. it don't matter.  

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I would add that using the steam controller has made me more effective.  Not having to look at the power bar lets me be quick and decisive.

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Generally speaking, Stalkers do good ST damage and not so good AoE damage... if you're like that, then try to focus on bosses.  If you can kill the 2 bosses in about the same time the AoE classes drop the minions and LTs, then you're contributing a lot to the team.   It helps to have a bind that sets your target (you'll have to learn the boss names and load them in ahead of time).  Most of the tips above are good as well.

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Active on Excelsior:

Hyperdrive Monkey - Beam Rifle / Devices Blaster, Lode Monkey - Fire Blast / Energy Manipulation Blaster (Blapper), Supernova Monkey - Electric / Dual Blades Tank, Tiger Dragon Monkey - Street Justice / Super Reflexes Stalker

 

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Some stalker primaries have the same AOE as scrapper sets

 

Staff, Savage, Street Justice come to mind.

 

Elec also has good AOE

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On 3/18/2020 at 12:23 PM, TheGentlemanGhostronaut said:

Doing a bit of high level content has left be a bit puzzled as to how Stalker works in 50+ stuff, it feels like everything gets minced so quickly that I'm sort of just a worse Scrapper and don't get to really take advantage of what makes Stalker unique.

 

Am I missing something?

With 'flipped' archetypes (such as Brute/Tanker, Corruptor/Defender, Stalker/Scrapper), you really have to focus on the unique mechanics involved. Certain combinations work well in one form or the other.

 

In terms of Stalkers/Scrappers, the two key differences:

  • Stalkers don't get damage auras, Scrappers do. This makes any set with a damage aura unusually weak for a Stalker.
  • Stalkers get a 'free' single target attack, Scrappers don't. This creates the seemingly paradoxical situation that sets with strong AE tend to be better on Stalkers than Scrappers - because Stalkers can fill the hole in an otherwise weak single target attack chain.

For example, the latest Stalker I'm playing is Electrical/Energy/Mu. Electrical ordinarily doesn't have particularly good single target - but the Assassinate ability fills that hole. On the other hand, it has amazing AE - which is a common problem with Stalkers. On the armor side, Energy is virtually identical between the two right down to the Hide. So by playing it as a Stalker the power I lose to accommodate Hide is... a Hide.

 

If you flip this to Scrapper, then you lose a lot of single target damage, you lose the near-constant build up from the archetype IO in Chain Induction and you gain nothing. It's a 'Stalker build'.

 

Contrast this with the classic Titan Weapons/Bio Scrapper. Titan Weapons isn't even available to Stalkers. With Bio Armor, you lose both the damage aura and the -resist aura. So this would be a 'Scrapper Build'.

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