How to Stalker in Endgame

[Mistforged]

On 3/23/2020 at 5:33 PM, Erydanus said:

My stalker is a teleporter and I've made a macro that targets to my target. It makes it easy to leap on the boss's head* and unload however I want - aoe if there's a big cluster, a big single target hit if it's just the boss who needs attention, whatever is most useful. 

 

________________

*unless there's a vertical gap, or they're up some stairs; that can screw up the macro, and then I have to jump up and use it.

What macros do you use for targeting could you share ? 

[Force Redux]

I'll add that Spines has good AoE as well as some range.

 

I have it on my */Bio stalker. Helps me feel useful in the zerg.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Force Redux

[Chrome]

I am actually confused, with the current incarnation of stalkers, how can you ever feel like a second rate scrapper, scrappers are HORRIBLE compared to stalkers.

 

literally every 4th attack is a auto crit, chance to hide makes even more things crit, and you can often double stack build up and sometimes triple stack it.

 

i am honestly surprised scrapper players arent complaining that they have no spot on a team since stalkers are so much better.

[Chrome]

elec melee/bio/mu...would be awesome for group play and nigh unkillable if built for pure recharge......matter of fact imma build one right now 

 

 

 

Edit: Soul mastery will be even better to fix the single target issue elec melee has

Edited May 18, 2020 by Chrome

[Omega-202]

On 5/18/2020 at 1:06 PM, Chrome said:

elec melee/bio/mu...would be awesome for group play and nigh unkillable if built for pure recharge......matter of fact imma build one right now 

 

 

 

Edit: Soul mastery will be even better to fix the single target issue elec melee has

I'd stick with Mu.  Soul doesn't give you any advantage in the single target department over Mu, except the option to add one more kind of damage proc in the snipe, but Zapp can already slot 3.  Zapp also got fixed a while ago so its damage is the same as Moonbeam, so don't let Mids or old databases confuse you.  The only real difference between the sets is Shadow Meld vs Ball Lightning.  

 

Regarding the idea of Elec/Bio, you should do great.  I have an Elec/Invuln/Mu that is functionally unkillable (capped typed defenses, except psi and capped or nearly capped resists across the board when I Rune of Prot is running) and can dish out silly amounts of AoE damage with BU>LR>BL>TS>CI. 

 

Overall, I agree with your assessment.  Outside of TW (which Stalkers don't get) Stalkers have a higher peak performance in the melee damage niche over Scrappers, but generally require a bit more effort/attention than Scrappers.  But they each bring slightly different tool sets.  Scrappers generally have one more AoE attack over Stalkers, which can make a big difference on sets that are already anemic in the AoE department.  But for sets like Elec, the Stalker version is objectively better than the Scrapper version and any Elec Scrapper would be better as a Stalker or Brute.    

[Chrome]

actually i was referencing Soul Storm ... it is NASTY for procs so you have moonbeam soul storm for single target, as opposed to only Zapp... plus you get the lovely shadow meld for a one slot wonder with amazing usefulness.

[Chrome]

this is the build i am using

 

Spoiler

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1565&c=710&a=1420&f=HEX&dc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

 

[Sovera]

I've played two Stalkers to end-game and though I did not linger for long this is my experience with them:

 

- Having AoE is good but not crucial.

- Most of everything dies in the initial volley of nukes and AoEs. Keyword being 'most'. What is left needs to be moped and Stalker is a ST specialist. I had fun running around with my KM Stalker exploding mobs as a TW Scrapper reared their weapon for a swing to the point I took pity and stopped 'killstealing' so that he could hit something.

- Even on steam rolling teams the previous point stands. And in steamroll teams *everyone* is twiddling their thumb after the Blaster threw their nuke, not just the Stalker.

- There is always something annoying in every faction. Surgeons standing slightly too far away (since they stop to cast heals which means they are out of range of AoEs), Sappers, Menders, Builders. Heck, even Embalmed Cadavers and the Vhaz lieuts that ressurect zombies. Surgical strikes help a lot. I make a point of running around killing Surgeons because no one wants to whittling a T9ed Minotaur only to see its HP spike back up.

- If it all fails, well, turn left when the team goes right and solo a few packs on your own.

[Yoru-hime]

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

- There is always something annoying in every faction. Surgeons standing slightly too far away (since they stop to cast heals which means they are out of range of AoEs), Sappers, Menders, Builders. Heck, even Embalmed Cadavers and the Vhaz lieuts that ressurect zombies. Surgical strikes help a lot. I make a point of running around killing Surgeons because no one wants to whittling a T9ed Minotaur only to see its HP spike back up.

This is how I operate on teams. Let others be the AoE bludgeons. I'm the razor blade, picking out the problems and silencing them. Surgeons, Paragon Protectors, Eyeballs, DE Quartz. I keep the steamroller from getting stuck on irritating stuff. My DB/EA looks at pretty much anything less than an AV as the warm-up to a real fight.

[Omega-202]

8 hours ago, Chrome said:

actually i was referencing Soul Storm ... it is NASTY for procs so you have moonbeam soul storm for single target, as opposed to only Zapp... plus you get the lovely shadow meld for a one slot wonder with amazing usefulness.

Mu has Electric Shackles, which does slightly less base damage (which really doesn't matter because the damage will be from procs) and costs less end but is otherwise identical to Soul Storm.  And it takes the same procs.  I use it as a single target nuke with quad procs.  I recommend you do some research.  It seems you're not aware of what each set has.

 

As I said, the difference comes down to Ball Lightning vs Shadow Meld.  If you're already capping defense (which you can do with a lot of sets) then Meld is a waste, especially if you take Barrier Incarnate or run in teams with stacking Manuevers.  Plus, BL gives you a giant AoE to use your Hide Crit on, which Electric melee doesn't have.  LRod doesn't crit from Hide, so your best option otherwise is Thunderstrike, which will hit 2-4 enemies at best.  LR and BL can hit a whole spawn, and with a Gaussian's procced BU, you'll be decimating most of the trash in a spawn just with those two, and will still have Thunderstrike for the followup AoE.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Omega-202

[Chrome]

2 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

Mu has Electric Shackles, which does slightly less base damage (which really doesn't matter because the damage will be from procs) and costs less end but is otherwise identical to Soul Storm.  And it takes the same procs.  I use it as a single target nuke with quad procs.  

 

As I said, the difference comes down to Ball Lightning vs Shadow Meld.  If you're already capping defense (which you can do with a lot of sets) then Meld is a waste, especially if you take Barrier Incarnate pr run in teams with stackong Manuevers.  Plus, BL gives you a giant AoE to use your Hide Crit on, which Electric melee doesn't have.  LRod doesn't crit from Hide, so your best option otherwise is Thunderstrike, which will hit 2-4 enemies at best.  

as far as Thunderstrike hitting only two -4 enemies i feel you and i play very differently, as usually Thunderstrike hits its full target cap when used unless there are only 2-4 enemies left:) but i can see where you are coming from in regards to MU and i may try it out.  In my case i am using Bio which, the way i build doesnt come close to capping def  i mean almost for FCEN but still not capped ...so shadow meld can be a buffer for silly stalker moments like trying to solo a crystal + dwarves in the ITF at +4  (some of there attacks lower recharge which is what my build is centered on).  anyhow i think we can at least agree that mu or soul are probably the best epic pools for stalkers for most people:) 

[DemonWithin]

On 5/18/2020 at 7:01 PM, Chrome said:

I am actually confused, with the current incarnation of stalkers, how can you ever feel like a second rate scrapper, scrappers are HORRIBLE compared to stalkers.

 

literally every 4th attack is a auto crit, chance to hide makes even more things crit, and you can often double stack build up and sometimes triple stack it.

 

i am honestly surprised scrapper players arent complaining that they have no spot on a team since stalkers are so much better.

I've built a claw elec scrapper and put the ATO sets in follow up and spin.  With perma haste my attack chain is. follow up spin then (shockwave or focus), repeat!  The critical flash across the screen like wild.  I'd say the number of Crits I pump out are more than any stalker I've built.

[Bunmaster]

Leveled 3 incarnated stalker and I play them like scrappers that can control their crits with stacked BU.

 

Normally i would look for important targets, jump in, AoE  and arrest the important target(s). Spam the heck out of BU with the gaussian proc. When hidden procs, use the biggest ST attack, usually your T9, not AS.

 

I try to move ahead of the team as well, unless i know it's a bad idea, but that's almost never.

[tidge]

I want to spring off of a few posts, on the topic of 'playing a stalker more like a scrapper'... not so much because of solo v. team play, more to 'keep moving' in solo play.

 

On 3/18/2020 at 1:01 PM, siolfir said:

I tend to lead with an AoE if we're moving fast, or since I have the chance for hide proc slotted, if it's recharged I'll use AS and follow it up with either an AoE or my hardest hitting single target attack that's recharged. I don't wait for hidden status, though, so it's usually the fast version of AS ...

 

On 3/20/2020 at 10:45 PM, Call Me Awesome said:

Personally I play a Stalker like a Scrapper who can choose his moment to start the party.  Close to melee, pop off my AOE opener then on to my Kill Them All rotation moving from spawn to spawn as my toys get broken.  AOE's to kill off the trash, ST attacks to finish off the Bosses and then directly into the next.  Whenever the Hide proc fires off ...

 

26 minutes ago, Bunmaster said:

Normally i would look for important targets, jump in, AoE  and arrest the important target(s). Spam the heck out of BU with the gaussian proc. When hidden procs, use the biggest ST attack, usually your T9, not AS....

 

I have a low-30s Stalker right now, with a relatively smooth attack chain. I have both of the ATO procs slotted, and the Build Up has a decent recharge without the ATO proc. The %Hide proc is in the Assassin's Strike.

 

Opening an attack on a (even level, or +1) spawn with the Assassin's Strike feels like a net loss of DPS... because the 'slow' strike is taking a while (and when it misses, I miss the lost time more than the damage) I'm starting to think that putting the %Hide into a harder-hitting power (or a melee AoE) would be a better place for it... because presumably if the %Hide procs, I can followup with an Assassin's Strike. Most of my spawn combats are not from Hidden anyway... so I'm a hair's breadth from just opening with any other attack than the Strike.

 

Am I being wrongly seduced away from slow-but-sweet Assassin's Strike damage for the lure of being able to make a faster initial attack?

 

Does the Hidden status (via the %Hide proc) yield the same damage from the 'fast' Assassin's Strike?

[Bunmaster]

In a team setting, slow AS very often ends up being corpse blasting. Or you end up being a non factor because you just fired 2 ST attacks before the whole group of baddies is down. Opening with an AoE or other ST attacks allows you to do more dmg overall.

 

AS is still very important to your rotation i.e. use on cd and is still the best place for the hidden.proc.

[Omega Force]

The reason to put the Hide proc in Assassin Strike was to keep it from proccing unexpectedly.  Stalkers would otherwise have their attack chain disrupted by a suddenly slow AS.

[Call Me Awesome]

19 hours ago, Omega Force said:

The reason to put the Hide proc in Assassin Strike was to keep it from proccing unexpectedly.  Stalkers would otherwise have their attack chain disrupted by a suddenly slow AS.

THIS.  I had the proc in Fire Sword Circle and found it disruptive when it would fire and I tried to unload an AS on the mob only to get the slooooooooooooow animation.  I had to watch for the proc to fire and change my attack chain if it did... this was enough of a pain that I moved it to AS... that way I was assured it would not proc before I fired the attack off.

[tidge]

On 5/21/2020 at 7:21 PM, Omega Force said:

The reason to put the Hide proc in Assassin Strike was to keep it from proccing unexpectedly.  Stalkers would otherwise have their attack chain disrupted by a suddenly slow AS.

 

On 5/22/2020 at 3:14 PM, Call Me Awesome said:

THIS.  I had the proc in Fire Sword Circle and found it disruptive when it would fire and I tried to unload an AS on the mob only to get the slooooooooooooow animation.  I had to watch for the proc to fire and change my attack chain if it did... this was enough of a pain that I moved it to AS... that way I was assured it would not proc before I fired the attack off.

 

Ah, I see the logic now. Thanks folks.

[oldskool]

@tidge There is still some room for YMMV moments.  I've chatted with others that absolutely swear by having that %Hide in other powers for their own reasons.  Generally though, those reasons never revolved around slow AS hits in hide.  It was usually something else they were after within their rotation.  

So depending on what you're going for the guile proc could go somewhere else.  It may be a niche decision, but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad one.  

[Crater Kate]

Honest question - how are you guys keeping your end management good enough that you can afford to go into Epics that aren't Body Mastery?

 

The only 50+ Stalker I have is a StJ/SR (which is, admittedly, a pretty end-intensive setup), and tried running a Moonbeam build with it. Even building other powers with end in mind, I was just nowhere near able to keep a good attack chain going without bottoming out in 2-3 rotations. Going for Body and having access to 3 Perf Shift +End is a little bit of the nuclear solution, but it's the only way I'm able to deal sustained damage.

 

Is this a thing where my build's the exception, not the norm, and most other Stalkers don't have this kind of tax on them?

[DeamonWithin]

8 hours ago, Crater Kate said:

Honest question - how are you guys keeping your end management good enough that you can afford to go into Epics that aren't Body Mastery?

 

The only 50+ Stalker I have is a StJ/SR (which is, admittedly, a pretty end-intensive setup), and tried running a Moonbeam build with it. Even building other powers with end in mind, I was just nowhere near able to keep a good attack chain going without bottoming out in 2-3 rotations. Going for Body and having access to 3 Perf Shift +End is a little bit of the nuclear solution, but it's the only way I'm able to deal sustained damage.

 

Is this a thing where my build's the exception, not the norm, and most other Stalkers don't have this kind of tax on them?

This is what I've managed to do.    This build is with no Incarnates or Accolades.  The totals you see are with Hide deactivated so all the defenses should have an extra 1.88%.  So with Hide on you get sof-tcaps.  Not a cheap build either.  No endurance issues due to the 4-slotted health. And I slowly Boosted all the enhancements that helped endurance to +5.  I would +5 some of the IO's, for example the ones in Against All Odds, True Grit and Hasten. 

 

 

 

Stalker - Electrical Melee - Shield Defense - Elly.mxd

Edited May 26, 2020 by DeamonWithin

[tricon]

9 hours ago, Crater Kate said:

Honest question - how are you guys keeping your end management good enough that you can afford to go into Epics that aren't Body Mastery?

 

The only 50+ Stalker I have is a StJ/SR (which is, admittedly, a pretty end-intensive setup), and tried running a Moonbeam build with it. Even building other powers with end in mind, I was just nowhere near able to keep a good attack chain going without bottoming out in 2-3 rotations. Going for Body and having access to 3 Perf Shift +End is a little bit of the nuclear solution, but it's the only way I'm able to deal sustained damage.

 

Is this a thing where my build's the exception, not the norm, and most other Stalkers don't have this kind of tax on them?

Certain builds will have problems if the Power Set has no options to gain extra endurance, my Ice/Shield can run into this problems too.

 

Then you have on the other side Combos that don't know this problem at all like with my latest Stalker a Staff/Radiation Armor and Health/Stamina have each 2 slots and I can run 9 toggles with 1.77/s EndUse. Rad gives you another health/recovery auto with Gamma Boost and then you have access to Radiation Therapy that offers you even more twice a minute.  Before that I created a Savage/EA Stalker and thanks to Energize and Energy Drain has no issues as well.

 

 

[Without_Pause]

On 5/25/2020 at 10:32 PM, Crater Kate said:

Honest question - how are you guys keeping your end management good enough that you can afford to go into Epics that aren't Body Mastery?

 

The only 50+ Stalker I have is a StJ/SR (which is, admittedly, a pretty end-intensive setup), and tried running a Moonbeam build with it. Even building other powers with end in mind, I was just nowhere near able to keep a good attack chain going without bottoming out in 2-3 rotations. Going for Body and having access to 3 Perf Shift +End is a little bit of the nuclear solution, but it's the only way I'm able to deal sustained damage.

 

Is this a thing where my build's the exception, not the norm, and most other Stalkers don't have this kind of tax on them?

What is your Alpha slot? Bottoming out after 2-3 rotations seems a bit much. Are we talking a basic ST attack chain? Tested. I have a level 37 StJ/shield laying around. Single slot common level 25 IO for Stamina. Same level common IOs elsewhere. No epic. I cleared three mobs at +1/x1 without bottoming out and used AoE attacks as normal which is often. I would have needed a blue for a fourth mob, but again, solo with minimal slotting and I cleared three mobs.

[Bunmaster]

Depends on your powersets, those that doesn't have their own way of recovery, it's either body mastery or ageless. Because Miracle+Panacea+Numina aren't enough.

[kiramon]

On 5/5/2020 at 8:27 PM, Mistforged said:

What macros do you use for targeting could you share ? 

You can /bind <key> (or macro) powexec_location target Teleport

 

I use Shift +t for target and t for regular on my kheld:P (and make it auto toggle on dwarf lol)