Proposal: Promote Pro-Social Interactions by Increasing the Duration of Single Target Anti-Mezz Powers

[oedipus_tex]

I think it's safe to say the current state of buff-heavy sets like Empathy, Pain, etc is not in a good place. I think this opens up some opportunities.

 

The current duration of anti-mezz powers is 90 seconds. This is a very old school design, left over from issue 1. It was designed for a meta where support characters were intended to be occupied with lots of clicks/animation time.

 

I think the duration of these powers could stand to be raised. Drastically. Specifically, I'm talking about an increase to around 10-15 minute durations at level 50. Probably that will make some eyes pop, but hear me out.

 

Melee archetypes run around the game with that level of mezz protection at all times, so there's no boost to their effectiveness after around level 20. The only classes that benefit are the squishy ones. Of these, only Blasters are damage leaders. 

 

With a 15 minute duration, support characters like Empathy, Pain, Poison, Thermal, and Sonic Resonance would have a buff that has drive-by value. That's one area City of Heroes significantly differs from other MMOs. There are very few (no?) "community buffs" that encourage pro-social interactions in the general game world. Buff durations are too short for that. Mostly, that's a good thing, because too many buffs can make a character overpowered.

 

But the effects of these powers are perfect for long duration, pro-social buffs. They mean having a level 50 Empathy character in Atlas Park handing out buffs has value. All of the support sets are currently struggling to be relevant. This would provide them something tangible.

 

Keep in mind the only portion of these powers I think could do with the increase in duration is the anti-mezz portion. For the ones with extra effects, that portion may still only last 90 seconds. Also, I'd be 100% fine with some sets getting loner or shorter durations as appropriate. I could see Empathy and Pain having the longest durations and other sets falling into line according to where they should be in relation.

 

IMO the only real downside is it makes "bubble" powers somewhat less useful. But, bubble powers already provide mezz protection to the caster where anti-mezz powers do not, so they're still useful. 

Edited March 19, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[oedipus_tex]

I'll go ahead and reply to my own topic with a counter proposal.

 

If an increase to around 10-15 minutes at level 50 is considered problematic, please at least consider an increase to 4 minutes. I don't personally like the 4 minute duration as much. But, it would be much more useful than 90 seconds.  

[Call Me Awesome]

I agree that Clear Mind, Increase Density and the like are WAY too short duration, it forces the buff player to micromanage buffs instead of playing the game.  On my Kinetics characters I find I'm busy enough managing Speed Boost, Siphon Speed, Siphon Power, Transfusion, Transference & Fulcrum that Increase Density doesn't see much use outside of a few edge cases and as a reactionary power.  It's enough work just keeping SB on the team.

 

I'm not sure if increasing the duration of buffs to that extent is the way to go but I'd certainly agree with boosting them into the 4-5 minute range.  Anyone who plays a Kinetic can tell you about the, er, joy in being a buff bot with the short duration of Speed Boost to say nothing of ID.  With buffs that short duration it seems like all you do is fire them off.  4-5 minutes shouldn't be an issue, most if not all of the other defense/resistance shields have that duration.

[Uun]

I would be on board for 4 minutes. Not sure about 15. Did the anti-mezz buffs ever get the bubble treatment where you can buff the entire team at once? 

[Apparition]

7 minutes ago, Uun said:

I would be on board for 4 minutes. Not sure about 15. Did the anti-mezz buffs ever get the bubble treatment where you can buff the entire team at once? 

 

Negative, Ghost Rider. 

[Greycat]

I don't think I'd go over 90 seconds, personally.

[oedipus_tex]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

Did the anti-mezz buffs ever get the bubble treatment where you can buff the entire team at once? 

 

 

The anti-mezz buffs didn't get the AoE treatment. I personally do think that was the right call. Philosophically, the powers that got that buff were the ones that fell in a category where a player might be expected to go through the league manually casting at each player every 4 minutes. 

 

I have my own concerns about my suggestion. One is that instead of encouraging people to actually play Empathy, Pain, Thermal etc it may backfire and encourage "buff bots" who stand in zone buffing squishies.

 

On any other kind of power, I'd be worried about power creep. On these powers, I'm much less worried, because armored archetypes already are nigh invulnerable to mezz. 

 

There's a downside, like there is to everything. It might make iTrials too trivial.

 

One solution would be to keep the really strong part of the anti-mezz at 90 seconds, but then add a Mag 1.5 protection that lasts 10-15 min. That would, in effect, ward off "nuisance mezzes" without dramatically increasing the amount of mezz protection out there. In fact I may have talked myself into this idea and like it better than my origiinal proposal.

 

You'd need to make sure the 1.5 mag protection didn't self stack from same caster, but that's flaggable.

Edited March 19, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Hardship]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

I would be on board for 4 minutes. Not sure about 15. Did the anti-mezz buffs ever get the bubble treatment where you can buff the entire team at once? 

Clear Mind did NOT get that, but I don't know about others.

 

EDIT:  Sorry, was looking at an unrefreshed version. I didn't mean to answer a question that was already answered.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Hardship

[Greycat]

13 minutes ago, Hardship said:

 

 

EDIT:  Sorry, was looking at an unrefreshed version. I didn't mean to answer a question that was already answered.

30 noodles with wet lashes!

 

... wait, think I got that backwards.

[Sif]

36 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

I have my own concerns about my suggestion. One is that instead of encouraging people to actually play Empathy, Pain, Thermal etc it may backfire and encourage "buff bots" who stand in zone buffing squishies.

4-5 minutes should be long enough to make it less tedious to maintain on the squishies, while not entering "zone buff bot" levels.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Yes buff botting would be a very real reason not to break every standard and make a stupid long duration. This is part of why long durations never got added. In some, hell most MMOs I have played buffs get cancelled when entering dungeons so they have to be reapplied. Especially when the buffs can lasta  long time. CoH buffs persist and as such, making a buff last too long would make it so every supergroup, hell every blaster could use a throwaway ftp account for a buff bot to shadow them and sit outside missions. We also do not have any kind of re entry penalty as many MMO use. The things that make CoH unique also make it so your idea just cant happen.

 

Id say at most 4 minutes,

 

But here is an idea Id offer to maybe make your original idea not needed.

 

What if as part of the power sets with these abilities, they get an inherent aura that refreshes the duration of the buffs they grant, so as long as people stay  in regular contact with their ally, the buffs will simply auto maintain, freeing the defenders up to fight, the trollers up to troll etc.

[Razor Cure]

15 mins? No way. There are enough lazy ass emps/pain toons around.

I know there are 'different' ways too play support, but to me, if you have a buff (like..took it as a power), then use the damn thing. I have seen so many slack support players, who just cant buff, ever. Like a fire/emp troller..who just took his Auras from empathy. Obviously that is an extreme example, as the guy is clearly just an idiot (i told him to just make a fire/rad instead) but others like..

An fire/emp corr. WHo during a MASTER itf, did not buff anyone. Ever.

A something/cold corr, who didnt give out his shields (in spite of having them) fighting Bobcat and Neuron on TingMage..because..'i should just pop a few purples if i am worried about being hit.'

I already sorta-kinda-not really dislike aoe buffs, like SB..because now I CANT without my buffs from fools who dont buff me.

Maybe 2 mins, at most. That or give single target anti mez buffs SOME kinda self buff, to encourage twits to use them.

[carroto]

I'm behind this suggestion.  As it is I don't bother using anti-mez powers, or even taking them most of the time.  90 seconds is just too short to try to keep it up on anyone over an entire mission or series of them.  So at that point it becomes reactive only.  But that just doesn't work for me.  People rarely call out being mezzed but if they do and I see it in chat, and select them, it's probably too late to do much good.  Maybe I'm just not good at it, but I don't tend to play as a pure buff-bot.  I'm busy doing other things so it takes a little time to react.  In the end it's just not worth bothering.  It's mostly useful to get someone back in the fight faster after they use an Awaken.

[Razor Cure]

10 minutes ago, carroto said:

I'm busy doing other things so it takes a little time to react. 

Time to react? Enter mission, throw anti mez on, reapply as 3rd/4th mob is dying. Repeat.

It is only a reaction if you are to lazy to actually use the powers in teh first place. It's like waiting for something to get hit and take damage, then asking them..'oh that hurt, you want me to USE my def/res buffs on you?'

Let's just make every buff an Aoe with no end cost because it is an effort to use powers!

 

[Call Me Awesome]

6 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

15 mins? No way. There are enough lazy ass emps/pain toons around.

I know there are 'different' ways too play support, but to me, if you have a buff (like..took it as a power), then use the damn thing. I have seen so many slack support players, who just cant buff, ever. Like a fire/emp troller..who just took his Auras from empathy. Obviously that is an extreme example, as the guy is clearly just an idiot (i told him to just make a fire/rad instead) but others like..

An fire/emp corr. WHo during a MASTER itf, did not buff anyone. Ever.

A something/cold corr, who didnt give out his shields (in spite of having them) fighting Bobcat and Neuron on TingMage..because..'i should just pop a few purples if i am worried about being hit.'

I already sorta-kinda-not really dislike aoe buffs, like SB..because now I CANT without my buffs from fools who dont buff me.

Maybe 2 mins, at most. That or give single target anti mez buffs SOME kinda self buff, to encourage twits to use them.

Long duration buffs have the opposite effect than the "buff bot" playstyle... with a 60-90 second buff you'll be CONSTANTLY tossing out buffs while with a longer duration you'll be able to actually attack/control/otherwise contribute to the team beyond simply going down the team list with a buff every 45 seconds.

 

I HATE that when I'm playing a Kinetic, it's bad enough with SB's 2 minute duration now that it's an AOE buff, back when it was ST like ID still is I really hated playing the set; I only ran one for the team's benefit.  Now on my Kinetic characters I almost never use ID because it's so damn tedious.  If it was a 4 minute or better AOE buff then I'd make a point of using it, as it is I've better things to do than spend 15 seconds or so every 45 seconds just keeping the buff up.  I've noticed that nearly every buff character tends to be the same with the Mez buff, keeping it up is more trouble than it's worth.

 

Playing a Kinetic I can devote 1/3 of my time to nothing but keeping the mez shield up on the team or I can spend the time blasting, siphoning, transferring, fulcrum and tossing SB out every 90 seconds or so... which is quite enough of a nuisance as it is.   The fact that SB is AOE and it's just so damn good of a team buff means I'll put up with it's short duration.  I'm gonna forget about ID unless there's a severe need for it and focus on the rest of my abilities.  Yes, I usually do get it eventually but it's very low priority on my power selection, frequently a level 49 power choice.

[Uun]

11 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

Time to react? Enter mission, throw anti mez on, reapply as 3rd/4th mob is dying. Repeat.

It is only a reaction if you are to lazy to actually use the powers in teh first place. It's like waiting for something to get hit and take damage, then asking them..'oh that hurt, you want me to USE my def/res buffs on you?'

Let's just make every buff an Aoe with no end cost because it is an effort to use powers!

 

I don't know what game you're playing, but in 9 years the number of times somebody has preemptively applied anti-mez to all the non-melees on a team every 90 seconds is 0. 

[oedipus_tex]

Part of the reason I'm making this suggestion is because of the build advice I keep giving to Empathy/Pain/Thermal/Poison players.

 

"Skip the anti-mezz in your final build. You're going to be taking Clarion Destiny anyway."

 

 

[Razor Cure]

6 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

"Skip the anti-mezz in your final build. You're going to be taking Clarion Destiny anyway."

Which..is kinda shitty advice if they EVER plan on doing stuff below level 45. MY Emp fender Has Clarion, for Myself, and CM, for everyone else. All the time.

 

[Myrmidon]

On 3/19/2020 at 5:46 PM, Bentley Berkeley said:

What if as part of the power sets with these abilities, they get an inherent aura that refreshes the duration of the buffs they grant, so as long as people stay  in regular contact with their ally, the buffs will simply auto maintain, freeing the defenders up to fight, the trollers up to troll etc.

One million times this.

[Solarverse]

On 3/19/2020 at 2:29 PM, Apparition said:

 

Negative, Ghost Rider. 

Roger that Covey Leader!

[Razor Cure]

17 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

What if as part of the power sets with these abilities, they get an inherent aura that refreshes the duration of the buffs they grant, so as long as people stay  in regular contact with their ally, the buffs will simply auto maintain, freeing the defenders up to fight, the trollers up to troll etc.

Does that mean every similar buff becomes a PBaoe with a big end cost, like dispersion bubble or the sonic one? Because it should. And if so, no thanks.

[Greycat]

10 hours ago, Uun said:

I don't know what game you're playing, but in 9 years the number of times somebody has preemptively applied anti-mez to all the non-melees on a team every 90 seconds is 0. 

Don't know who you've played with, then...

[Call Me Awesome]

10 hours ago, Uun said:

I don't know what game you're playing, but in 9 years the number of times somebody has preemptively applied anti-mez to all the non-melees on a team every 90 seconds is 0. 

 

47 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Don't know who you've played with, then...

Must be the same kind of people I've played with.  Nobody consistently bothers with short term buffs; it's even a rare Kinetic who consistently keeps SB on the team.

 

I've been playing since 2004 and I've yet to team with anyone who consistently kept a short duration buff on the team.  Not a single player has consistently kept it up.

[Sif]

13 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

I've been playing since 2004 and I've yet to team with anyone who consistently kept a short duration buff on the team.  Not a single player has consistently kept it up.

Shit UX

 

How do you know when to reapply? Notice when a tiny icon in a sea of icons start flashing and disappear. No timer showing time remaining, no obvious visual (SB is the most obvious, and even then it can be easy to miss other people not zooming around).

 

On my Grav/Emp, I try to keep Fortitude up on ~4 people constantly, Mystic Fortune up on everybody, and if there's enemies that like using mez, CM up on anyone that needs it (not quite high enough for AB), but CM is probably the hardest to maintain up time, because Fortitude I just cast every time it recharges (can notice that at a glance how long until it'll be recharged), MF has a long duration, but CM is in that sweet-spot-of-suck, with a short duration, quick recharge, and no good way to keep track (short of installing HeroStats and using that).

[oedipus_tex]

39 minutes ago, Sif said:

but CM is in that sweet-spot-of-suck

 

 

This is a perfect explanation of these powers. 😄

 

I actually don't currently like playing any of the sets that have single target anti-mezz, because I feel pressured, like I'm "supposed" to take these powers, even though they are annoying to track, usually have very weak slotting options, and eat up a power pick. Fiddling with Clear Mind or Thaw makes me nostalgic for the old Speed Boost, in the same way I feel nostalgic for 16 hour airport layovers.

 

Taking Clarion for my own mezz protection that happens to hit other players has become my out.

Edited March 21, 2020 by oedipus_tex