Restrict Judgment powers during regular play.

[ShardWarrior]

Just now, Replacement said:

Nerfs are helpful for maintaining expected gameplay loops.  For example, getting to actually experience what else party members can do other than pressing their Judgement button.

I am not sure I understand what you mean here?  Are you only seeing people use Judgement and nothing else?   People are using the ability when it is available same as any other power. 

[ZacKing]

3 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Relying on whataboutism means you can't win your argument so you're changing the goalpost to distract the opposition

lol no.

 

3 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Nerfs are helpful for maintaining expected gameplay loops.  For example, getting to actually experience what else party members can do other than pressing their Judgement button.

 

THAT SAID, what you are proposing isn't mutually exclusive.  I would push for both.

Come on man, no one is going from mob to mob using Judgement.  Trying to say otherwise is ridiculous. 

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, oedipus_tex said:

A fix I personally, but maybe not the whole playerbase, would support is making all the incarnate powers slottable into "universal slots" instead of 1 per incarnate power type.  Maybe you get 1 slot at the start of the incarnate tree and the 2nd one unlocks at Hybrid.  You'd have to pick 2 incarnate powers slotted at a time, but not more than that. E.g. I could slot Alpha and Destiny, but then wouldn't get Lore, Judgement, Interface, and Hybrid. Interface is the weakest one so maybe that one is outside this rule. Maybe Alpha too.

 

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

The idea to restrict players to the choice of which (Destiny / Lore / Judgement) to take is an interesting one. Honestly that wouldn't be so bad as its more the snowball of *everyone* having all those options at once that trivializes a lot. For example, why take the Tank Hybrid option if you can cover your defenses with Destiny? That said, if you'd rather do for damage and get a Judgement Nuke then you may not want to go all damage and pick up more defensive or even support based Alpha/Interface/Hybrid slots. 

 

I also like this idea.  I'd probably go one step further and give you 2 slots, an inherent slot and a clicky slot.  The first slot you have to choose between Alpha, Interface or Hybrid, the 2nd slot, choose between Destiny, Lore and Judgement.  The 3rd and last slot unlocked would be a universal slot that you can pick any of the remaining incarnate types.  Personally speaking, for a character who isn't a *super* incarnate with orbital lasers and ghost pets running around, maybe they'd pick Alpha and Hybrid and leave the other slot blank.  For my deity-esque incarnates, maybe they'd have Destiny and Lore and whatever else fits.

 

As for my opinion of incarnates: the OP was expressing an idea that got completely ignored which is hilarious.  He was talking about creating a mechanic that drives your incarnate powers.  In and of itself, that is a kind of content.  It's not a story or a mission or raid, but it is content as it adds something to your combat that you then have to manage to improve your performance.  It did get sidelined by accusations of *REMOVING* Judgements which is a hilarious over exaggeration.  Like I said before, if the game had continued on live for long enough, I have a suspicion the devs would feel pressured to limit overall use of incarnate powers in some way and having an "incarnate meter" or something would have been the easiest option.  Setting it up so that things like Interface or Hybrid slightly slows down the incarnate meter (kind of like a toggle cost) and Judgement/Lore requiring a 90% bar (so you can't use both) and Destiny needs at least half a bar (with diminished effects...a full bar gives you the full effect) sounds fair and may require leagues to coordinate who uses what incarnate powers moreso than is needed in today's endgame TF content.

 

If I were personally waving a magic wand because I don't have the chops to actually make content, I'd probably make some kind of group or enemy type that "steals" or "seals" incarnate powers and you could randomly walk into a mission and all (or some) of your incarnate powers would be locked and secondary objectives within the mission or TF would be required to gain back the use of these powers.  This would be in regular content too.

 

Another separate idea I had thought of is the reverse of the above/the OP's idea to charge your incarnate powers: Any content you play while having incarnate powers would offer you a base amount of incarnate rewards (exp, threads, shards, etc) but it would be small.  Then you have your "Incarnate Power Multiplier" which is just something used to track how many times an incarnate power like Judgement, Lore, Destiny, etc is used by you or your team.   It would start at some high number like x10 (multiplying the base reward) and for every time you tap into that power, you spend some of that multiplier.  If you and your team accumulate too many uses, the multiplier goes to x0 and you get no incarnate rewards or exp.  Roll it into incarnate raids (although the multiplier would be even higher, like x65) and I'd be interested to see how that would play out.  

[Replacement]

5 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I am not sure I understand what you mean here?  Are you only seeing people use Judgement and nothing else?   People are using the ability when it is available same as any other power. 

 

2 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Come on man, no one is going from mob to mob using Judgement.  Trying to say otherwise is ridiculous. 

I was talking about an 8-person rotation, but... I acknowledge that's hyperbolic.  But my point is simply that there's no harm in stretching out those periods between Judgements a bit.

 

4 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

lol no.

Solid burn.  Crushing it, even.  Your attempts to call me out are not only not working; they're unnecessary.  I already agree with your fundamental premise that we need more high end content.

[ShardWarrior]

2 minutes ago, Replacement said:

I was talking about an 8-person rotation, but... I acknowledge that's hyperbolic.  But my point is simply that there's no harm in stretching out those periods between Judgements a bit.

Teams will rotate nukes and other AoEs as well.  Absolutely no difference between those and using Judgement. 

[Lazarillo]

14 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

People are using the ability when it is available same as any other power. 

...which is frankly not often enough for them to be much than a gimmick.  Not that it needs to be anything more than a gimmick, don't get me wrong, but Judgment is a drop in an ocean compared to Alpha, Destiny, and even Interface.

[RCU7115]

Gee, what's the next complaint ? Let's ask to get rid of the 5 levels you keep when you exemplar because someone is JEALOUS of you having access to 2 or 3 extra powers that you don't have ? They should put travel power access back to lvl 14 because I want to make everyone have an extra attack/buff power instead  ?

This thread is just as annoying as "I Can Play City of Heroes With My Forehead " thread.

[Galaxy Brain]

27 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Teams will rotate nukes and other AoEs as well.  Absolutely no difference between those and using Judgement. 

No no, there 100% is.

 

Not every AT can send out nukes naturally, as in actually "wipe the spawn" tier nukes. Judgement lets all members of a team have this capacity + their other benefits. Blasters getb2 nukes to toss out, tanks can round up enemies and nuke with judgement, etc.

 

Judgements also hit more targets than standard nukes which is a key factor to compare them to other AoEs.

[ShardWarrior]

Just now, Galaxy Brain said:

No no, there 100% is.

 

Not every AT can send out nukes naturally, as in actually "wipe the spawn" tier nukes. Judgement lets all members of a team have this capacity + their other benefits. Blasters getb2 nukes to toss out, tanks can round up enemies and nuke with judgement, etc.

 

Judgements also hit more targets than standard nukes which is a key factor to compare them to other AoEs.

So?  Again, enormous assumption being made that spamming judgement is all teams are doing and not using any other abilities in between.  It simply is not true. 

[Obus Form]

27 minutes ago, RCU7115 said:

This thread is just as annoying as "I Can Play City of Heroes With My Forehead " thread.

Doctor's hate it when you do this one thing!

 

Click here to find out how to triple your neck flexibility by 10 times!!

[Obus Form]

17 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

So?  ...spamming judgement is all teams we are doing and not using any other abilities communication tools in between.  It This simply is not true. 

FTFY

[RCU7115]

Just now, Obus Form said:

Doctor's hate it when you do this one thing!

 

Click here to find out how to triple your neck flexibility by 10 times!!

But that's how I want to play the game and everybody should play the way I  want to play. The players playing with their eyes covered and with their hands tied behind their backs are playing it wrong.  😀😀😀

[ZacKing]

25 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

No no, there 100% is.

 

Not every AT can send out nukes naturally, as in actually "wipe the spawn" tier nukes. Judgement lets all members of a team have this capacity + their other benefits. Blasters getb2 nukes to toss out, tanks can round up enemies and nuke with judgement, etc.

 

Judgements also hit more targets than standard nukes which is a key factor to compare them to other AoEs.

that's what they are supposed to do lol.  so you're argument is people shouldn't be using them?  yeah, good luck with that.

 

Very simple solution ... if you don't like them, use LFG to form a "no incarnate powers" team and have at it.  problem solved.

[ShardWarrior]

4 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

FTFY

Sorry, no.  It is not true.  If that is your experience - which I very, very highly doubt - then find different team mates.

[Rathulfr]

If this is going to devolve into a flame war, let me get my licks in now while the getting is good:

 

• Nerf Brutes!
• Nerf knockback!
• Nerf Hasten!
• Nerf AE!
• Nerf TW/Bio!
• Buff Trick Arrow!
• Proliferate SS to Scrappers!
• Add NPC costume parts to the character creator!
• Nerf Sentinels!
• Buff Sentinels!
• Scrap Sentinels and give us Paladins, instead!
• That other CoH hosting group is doing something cool: clone it here!
• Make Instant Healing a toggle again (fix Regen)!
• Proliferate Regen to Tanks!

 

That should do it, for now.  Let me know if I missed any.

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Rathulfr

[ZacKing]

3 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

Let me know if I missed any.

You forgot nerf regen

[Rathulfr]

Just now, ZacKing said:

You forgot nerf regen

Fixed.

[Apparition]

8 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

Let me know if I missed any.

 

 

You missed buff Force Field and nerf procs. 😛

[Rathulfr]

Just now, Apparition said:

 

You missed buff Force Field and nerf procs. 😛

Nah, not controversial enough.  😉

[Coyotedancer]

2 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

The idea to restrict players to the choice of which (Destiny / Lore / Judgement) to take is an interesting one. Honestly that wouldn't be so bad as its more the snowball of *everyone* having all those options at once that trivializes a lot. 

 

And, at this point, I'm going to gently remind everyone in this conversation that NOT EVERYONE who plays this game does so on 8-player teams or huge leagues...

 

I feel like I've had to remind people of that a lot lately. <_<

 

Keep in mind that the way the game plays, and the way iPowers affect that experience, are a bit different for soloist and in duo/trio/small team play. "Rolling Judgements" aren't such a constant thing when there are only two of you, much less when you're out there facing a horde of goons alone. Given that, any big change proposals really need to take more than just full-sized smash team dynamics into consideration. Those 8-man smash fests ploughing through Council scanners in PI like proverbial wrecking balls aren't the only thing running, so you can't just make changes based on how they run.

[Obus Form]

11 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

Let me know if I missed any.

 

Play with forehead

[Rathulfr]

Just now, Obus Form said:

Play with forehead

I'm already doing that with a different part of my anatomy.  😎

[Obus Form]

15 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Sorry, no.  It is not true.  If that is your experience - which I very, very highly doubt - then find different team mates.

For Clarity and Posterity:

 

Spamming judgement is all we are doing on this forum, not using any other communication tools.  This is true.

[Obus Form]

Just now, Rathulfr said:

I'm already doing that with a different part of my anatomy.  😎

Don't be a dickhead.  Add it to your list plz.

[Rathulfr]

Just now, Obus Form said:

For Clarity and Posterity:

 

Spamming judgement is all we are doing on this forum, not using any other communication tools.  This is true.

This is the way.