Best Brute

[Unrandom]

Just found the game again. Which power sets for brute can +4×8 at endgame?

[Rathulfr]

All of them.

 

[CKent83]

2 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

All of them.

 

This is the way.

[Unrandom]

Which is strongest? V_V

Edited April 5, 2020 by Unrandom

[Unrandom]

Fire melee? >.>

[Without_Pause]

20 minutes ago, Unrandom said:

Which is strongest? V_V

Hulk. In all seriousness, how do you define strongest?

Edited April 5, 2020 by Without_Pause

[Unrandom]

Hmmm... That is a good question.

 

After reading a bit more: what would be best for AE fire farms, but also great for +4x8 endgame content?

[hakurr]

in today's game play with enough Influence and primary and secondary can be made to enjoy and do end game. that being said the flavor of the game at this time is Titan Weapons / Bio Armor.  it had the best results on the pylon test. as far as end game and farming i would recommend Radiation melee / Radiation armor

Edited April 5, 2020 by hakurr

[oOStaticOo]

AE Farms Spines/Fire, Spines/Rad, Rad/Fire, or Rad/Rad Brutes are the best options.  Overall game wise I'd say Kat/EnA Brute is one of the best.  TW/Bio probably right there with it.

[Without_Pause]

What works for fire farms isn't really what works for end game content. For fire farms, fire armor. For end game content, not fire armor. It also depends on how much you are willing to invest in it. If you want something which top tier, then TW/bio is in the running, but it is going to cost to get it to where it can be. I found it a bit underwhelming in its 20-30s. If I wanted something to farm S/L maps and for general content, I would pick Spines, Rad, or TW with /bio or /rad.

 

Also note if you are creating a fire farmer for the drops, you are literally wasting your time as influ/time is better generated through the market. If you want to create one to dual box and PL friends and SG mates, then by all means do so. This is why I suggest going for a general build versus a fire farmer. I honestly only really use my fire farmer to dual box.

[Werner]

15 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

For fire farms, fire armor. For end game content, not fire armor.

Not that you claimed otherwise, but you can build /Fire to be very solid for the game at large and still be only slightly slower on a fire farm than a dedicated farming build. I farm maybe 10% slower than top farming builds on my general-purpose SS/Fire build despite not having Rage, Musculature, or Assault. When fire farming, you have massive damage buffs from combining inspirations into reds and chugging them down. Do additional damage buffs on top of that help? Yeah, most of the time I'm not at the damage cap. But I'm often at the damage cap. And when I'm not, the damage bonus is so high that adding more is of only marginal utility. He's admittedly not my most survivable Brute. But he's very solid, and his massive AoE damage (admittedly much lower outside of fire farms, but still nothing to sneeze at) is probably more useful to most teams than my other Brutes.

15 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

if you are creating a fire farmer for the drops, you are literally wasting your time as influ/time is better generated through the market

Yes. Worth emphasizing. There are lots of ways to make influence fast. Farming was just nerfed, and in my opinion for the best, by no longer allowing double influence / no XP while exemplared. So only farm if you think you'd enjoy it, not if you think it would be a punishing grind but the only way to make quick cash. I personally enjoy it sometimes, just turning off my brain and mindlessly destroying huge crowds of enemies, no map, no missions, just pure carnage. It's not what I'm usually in the mood for, but sometimes, and I'm glad I have a "farmer" for those times.

[Obus Form]

17 hours ago, Unrandom said:

Hmmm... That is a good question.

 

After reading a bit more: what would be best for AE fire farms, but also great for +4x8 endgame content?

@Unrandom You're asking a very generalized question ("great for +4x8", and "best for AE Fire Farms"), for which there are 3 specific answers.  I will also answer for iTrials since everyone gets to iTrials after boredom of +4x8 settles in.

 

+4x8

Assuming you have the Influence to buy IOs to reach 45% S/L softcap, due to SS's rage increasing your damage, SS/Any-armor-with-damage aura is best for +4x8.  @Werner makes a good suggestion of Super Strength/Fire Armor due to the increased damage from SS's Rage, and /Fire Armor's Burn AOE damage hitting everyone.

 

Other Armor sets with damage aura include /Bio /Rad Armor /Dark Armor /Ice Armor (this one is relatively bad though, and /Stone Armor (this is really bad)

 

AE Farms

Spines/Fire is the undisputed champion of AE Fire Farming.  Spines is the only Primary Power set that has a damage aura, and /Fire's Burn AOE power hits everyone constantly.

 

Titan Weapon/Bio Armor

TW/BIo is a well known combo to be the best at highest single target AND AOE damage across all power sets.  /Bio has a damage aura and has the ability to buff all damage by a certain percentage in exchange for lowering your resists, and TW/ is the highest single target and AOE damage.

 

iTrials

If you ever set foot into iTrials, you will need better energy damage mitigation + a good heal.  I recommend either /Dark Armor (strongest self-affecting-heal in the game) or /Rad armor for good resists and high life regen.

[Psyonico]

1 hour ago, Obus Form said:

AE Farms

Spines/Fire is the undisputed champion of AE Fire Farming.  Spines is the only Primary Power set that has a damage aura, and /Fire's Burn AOE power hits everyone constantly.

I'd like to introduce you to Rad Melee

[Werner]

 

2 hours ago, Obus Form said:

...+4x8.  @Werner makes a good suggestion of Super Strength/Fire Armor due to the increased damage from SS's Rage, and /Fire Armor's Burn AOE damage hitting everyone.

Rage normally helps damage output overall, but perhaps by less than some people may think, perhaps typically 10% to 20% in normal content. Good, but not great, and on a survival-oriented build, or if you just hate the crash, perhaps not worth the crash. And as damage bonuses climb, Rage helps less and less, and eventually even starts hurting damage output as you approach the damage cap. So when farming with a highly-efficient SS/Fire build and using keybinds/macros to convert inspirations to reds and chug them down, you can expect similar clear times with and without Rage. So I'd suggest it on a damage-oriented normal content build. But I wouldn't suggest it on a survival-oriented normal content build, or perhaps surprisingly, on a dedicated farming build. I think I'm very much in the minority on that last suggestion, though.

2 hours ago, Obus Form said:

Spines/Fire is the undisputed champion of AE Fire Farming...

As @Psyonico suggests, Rad/Fire would dispute that. I think it's close, but I think the edge goes to Rad/Fire.

2 hours ago, Obus Form said:

...iTrials, you will need better energy damage mitigation + a good heal.  I recommend either /Dark Armor (strongest self-affecting-heal in the game) or...

I love /Dark Armor. It's my favorite secondary. But its energy resistance leaves something to be desired in incarnate content. You can kind of get there though - I have 65% after set bonuses, and Barrier caps it for 30 seconds, as did Melee Core for 2 minutes, but I'm running Assault Core now because for what I fight, I almost never need more than 30 seconds of capped resists during a fight. I haven't run any iTrials on Homecoming, but I'm guessing there are better choices if that's what you're specifically building for. Just guessing, though. I'd love to be wrong. 🙂

Edited April 6, 2020 by Werner

[Obus Form]

@Werner straight forward, you're providing anecdotal directionless detail that provides no further insight into answering the OP's question without the OP already knowing the answer.

 

All your answers to the OP are on the fence

5 hours ago, Werner said:

Yeah, most of the time I'm not at the damage cap. But I'm often at the damage cap.

What are you saying?  Are you often at the damage cap, or most of the time not?  It's like i'm talking to David Mitchell from Would I Lie To You.

 

2 hours ago, Werner said:

So I'd suggest it on a damage-oriented normal content build. But I wouldn't suggest it on a survival-oriented normal content build, or perhaps surprisingly, on a dedicated farming build. I think I'm very much in the minority on that last suggestion, though.

Aside from tanking Lord Recluse, what +4x8 content requires a survival-oriented builds?  Reach 45% s/l defense, get a heal, and we're done.  Even blasters can solo +4x8 with occasional death.  Notable exceptions include ITF defense cascade failure, end-management versus specialized mobs, psychic damage, pure energy damage, etc.  It's a case-by-case depending on the mobs, hence why level 50 PI +4x8 groups choose Council.  We both know these minute details, but the OP is requesting a general answer, to which you've provided anecdotal directionless detail.

 

5 hours ago, Werner said:

He's admittedly not my most survivable Brute. But he's very solid.

What does this even mean?  Is it he survivable or not? What makes SS/Fire more or less survivable?  We both know these answers.  Your answer is anecdotal and directionless.

 

5 hours ago, Werner said:

...and his massive AoE damage (admittedly much lower outside of fire farms, but still nothing to sneeze at)...

What does this even mean?  Is his AoE damage massive or low?  Why or why not?  How is the OP going to understand what you just wrote without prior understanding?  

 

 

2 hours ago, Werner said:

Rage normally helps damage output overall, but perhaps by less than some people may think, perhaps typically 10% to 20% in normal content. Good, but not great, and on a survival-oriented build, or if you just hate the crash, perhaps not worth the crash. And as damage bonuses climb, Rage helps less and less, and eventually even starts hurting damage output as you approach the damage cap. So when farming with a highly-efficient SS/Fire build and using keybinds/macros to convert inspirations to reds and chug them down, you can expect similar clear times with and without Rage. So I'd suggest it on a damage-oriented normal content build. But I wouldn't suggest it on a survival-oriented normal content build, or perhaps surprisingly, on a dedicated farming build. I think I'm very much in the minority on that last suggestion, though.

If you point out these problems with SS/, why are you suggesting the OP SS/Fire?  Why don't you suggest Rad/Fire, or Spines/Fire?  SS/Fire is your answer, except you're not using Rage?  Then go Rad or Spines??  

 

After all the details you've mentioned, what clear direction have you given the OP?

[Werner]

2 hours ago, Obus Form said:

8 hours ago, Werner said:

Yeah, most of the time I'm not at the damage cap. But I'm often at the damage cap.

What are you saying?  Are you often at the damage cap, or most of the time not?  It's like i'm talking to David Mitchell from Would I Lie To You.

I maybe see the damage cap at least once on 90% of the runs through $Comic Con Fire Farm$. So I'm often at the cap. But I maybe only spend about 20% of my time actually sitting at the damage cap on that farm. Since that's less than half, most of the time I'm not at the damage cap. Often but not most.

2 hours ago, Obus Form said:

Aside from tanking Lord Recluse, what +4x8 content requires a survival-oriented builds?  Reach 45% s/l defense, get a heal, and we're done.  Even blasters can solo +4x8 with occasional death.  Notable exceptions include ITF defense cascade failure, end-management versus specialized mobs, psychic damage, pure energy damage, etc.

You seem to have answered your own question. Though with a good team, the exceptions aren't likely to be serious problems either. The game doesn't require survival-oriented builds, but some people like to play survival-oriented builds.

2 hours ago, Obus Form said:

8 hours ago, Werner said:

He's admittedly not my most survivable Brute. But he's very solid.

What does this even mean?

My Katana/Dark Brute can survive more easily in more extreme situations. So my SS/Fire is not my most survivable Brute. But my SS/Fire handles most +4x8 end game content with few deaths when I'm playing with friends. So I consider him to be very solid.

2 hours ago, Obus Form said:

Is it he survivable or not?

Not a yes/no question, but... sure, yes, he's survivable.

2 hours ago, Obus Form said:

What makes SS/Fire more or less survivable?

I think it would be getting into the weeds to explain the fine details of the survivability differences between my Katana/Dark Brute and my SS/Fire Brute, particularly since Katana/Dark would make a poor fire farmer, so isn't a good answer to the OPs question. I felt like it was being suggested that the OP would have to choose between their two desires, "best for AE fire farms, but also great for +4x8 endgame content." My intended point in bringing up my SS/Fire anecdotally is that a */Fire can be built to be great at both, just like the OP wants. Perhaps I made that case poorly, and so what I had intended to say was unclear.

2 hours ago, Obus Form said:

If you point out these problems with SS/, why are you suggesting the OP SS/Fire?  Why don't you suggest Rad/Fire, or Spines/Fire?  SS/Fire is your answer, except you're not using Rage?  Then go Rad or Spines??  

This may only exasperate you further, but I wasn't even specifically suggesting SS/Fire, which is perhaps why my "suggestion" seemed so unclear. I do think SS/Fire is a decent suggestion, but my intent was to make a broader point (mentioned above) about */Fire using SS/Fire as my example. Rad/Fire and Spines/Fire, already mentioned, are good suggestions that will farm slightly faster. Savage/Fire and Claws/Fire are also not bad at fire farming. Branching out from /Fire, you mentioned Titan/Bio, which seems a good choice. It's a little slower at farming than the /Fire builds, but not by a huge margin, and has better single target DPS for things like AVs. I also find all the knockdown to be fun, but fun is pretty subjective.

 

My meandering on Rage was really just an aside that I perhaps shouldn't have brought up at all. It was random and directionless. I've put numbers and specificity to those meanderings in the past, but in this thread that would only be getting further off topic than it already was.

[Haijinx]

A Strong Pairing for a new player would be War Mace / Willpower

 

Simple, easy to build but very strong attack chain (One of the best available) 

Nice AOE ability  

A secondary with good Endurance Recovery that is also good for survival and benefits a lot from team buffs. 

 

[Haijinx]

2 hours ago, Werner said:

I do think SS/Fire is a decent suggestion,

This isn't the easiest to build for survival, but yeah this is a great combo.  One of my favorite brutes back in the day. 

 

Nice synergy between lots of recharge for healing flames, double-rage, fast recharging foot-stomps and burn baby burn. 

 

I wonder though if Fire/SS tanker might be the way to go these days on Homecoming. 

[Unrandom]

Thank you all greatly for all of the help and information!

[Without_Pause]

13 hours ago, Haijinx said:

A Strong Pairing for a new player would be War Mace / Willpower

 

Simple, easy to build but very strong attack chain (One of the best available) 

Nice AOE ability  

A secondary with good Endurance Recovery that is also good for survival and benefits a lot from team buffs. 

 

Just note WP doesn't have a damage aura so the farming aspect is on the lower side. Still a great set. I would honestly push Kat over WM for a new player since Kat is faster, hence more Fury and the attack chain comes together sooner, and DA further helps smooth the leveling process out. WM has mitigation and comes together in the end. I just think the curve for Kat is smoother. There was a lot of back and forth on if I wanted to go /wp or /elec when I rolled my Kat brute. I went /elec partly because I love damage auras on brutes, and I already have a level 50 /wp brute.

[Haijinx]

Farming is a different game really.  So was not a consideration. 

 

WM is the 2nd highest ST set dps wise, Kat is several notches behind it.  WM is only behind TW which is less user friendly. 

 

WM also has more AOE than Kat.

 

I was basing the recommendation on, player seems less familiar with the game, and wants something "strong"

 

WM is the obvious strong choice, there is even a decades old meme supporting it.  

[Without_Pause]

But are waiting until at least 26 to have what feels like a proper attack chain. That can be an issue with people who are new.

[Klutzy]

For a new Brute, I always recommend Dark melee. It's got a lot of utility, there are some nice powers available early, and Negative Energy damage isn't bad at endgame.

 

WM/EA is STRONG and PRETTY, though.

[Haijinx]

13 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

But are waiting until at least 26 to have what feels like a proper attack chain. That can be an issue with people who are new.

This is a good point.  There are some sets which fill out and feel better at low levels, and others that need T8 and T9s to feel complete.   Once of the annoying aspects of playing my STJ stalker is if I'm exemped below 27 I lose crushing uppercut, which really makes it feel different.   

 

But the OP was asking about +4, x8 performance so that's all over 26.  

 

 

[Haijinx]

10 hours ago, Klutzy said:

For a new Brute, I always recommend Dark melee. It's got a lot of utility, there are some nice powers available early, and Negative Energy damage isn't bad at endgame.

 

WM/EA is STRONG and PRETTY, though.

I was suggesting WP since its Easier to play than EA.

 

But /EA is of course easily capable of performing at +4, x8

 

Its my personal favorite Melee Secondary.