Make Red Side Great Again

[Apparition]

I would like to suggest temporarily doubling the INF and reward merits from red side content (over a three or four month period, say), to give people strong incentive to check out red side and see for themselves how great it is, from the zones themselves, to the story arcs, to the different enemies.

 

A lot of people are new to the game and have only played blue side because "that's where everyone else is."  This would give them incentive to check out red side for themselves.

[Cobalt Azurean]

MAGA: Make Apparition Great Again

[Rathulfr]

While it sounds like a good idea at first glance, I doubt it will actually solve the problem.  What will happen is that we'll see a surge of Null the Gull Vigilantes that go slumming for double (quadruple) XP for a brief period of time, and then they'll all shift back to blue side when the period is over.

 

Even in its hey day, red side never appealed to most players.  It has always been significantly underpopulated, even in the best of times, right after CoV launched.  We all created our villains back then to check out the new content, and a few of us even got a few to 50.  Then later we all we went back to playing heroes, as usual.

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Rathulfr

[ArchVileTerror]

As said; yup.  Inf bonuses won't attract people interested in Redside.  It will attract people interested in Inf.

 

I think the best way to incentivize people to be playing Redside is to give players the power to make an impact in the game world.

 

It's been suggested before, and it would take some development effort, but if Redside could -trigger- Blueside zone invasions, I think that would be a huge step in the right direction.  

Essentially a short Trial (15 minutes, a la Death From Below/Drowning in Blood/Summer Blockbuster), which upon completion gives the Team Leader a pop-up which asks "Which zone do you want to attack?"  That zone then gets a regular auto-level-scaled Invasion Event.  And if the invaders aren't defeated before the timer runs out, the Villains who initiated the invasion get themselves a Badge and bonus Merits.

 

This also has the benefit of making players feel like they're Villains!  They're big!  They're bad!  They're important and powerful enough to launch attacks on Paragon City!

 

Two birds, one very big stone.

[ArchVileTerror]

Actually.  On second thought, you know what?

 

Let's combine the two!

 

Whenever an Invasion is successful, all Redside Mayhem Missions grant double Infamy Rewards for an hour!

Narratively, Paragon City is reeling from failing to stop a villainous invasion, and all Villains can then capitalize on that to grab more cash, resources, and assets while making themselves scarier in the eyes of Paragon's citizens.

Gameplay-wise, a successful invasion basically encourages all those Vigilantes and Rogues to get their butts back Redside so they can be part of that bonus period.

[ArchVileTerror]

T- T- T- TRIPLE POST!

(sorry)

 

Not Double Inf.  Devs don't like Inf.  I forgot.

 

Instead, make it so the Mayhems drop Merits for the next hour.  That's better.  Like 1 Merit for every 30 Seconds added to the clock.  That shouldn't be too much, right?

[Rathulfr]

3 minutes ago, ArchVileTerror said:

Actually.  On second thought, you know what?

 

Let's combine the two!

 

Whenever an Invasion is successful, all Redside Mayhem Missions grant double Infamy Rewards for an hour!

Narratively, Paragon City is reeling from failing to stop a villainous invasion, and all Villains can then capitalize on that to grab more cash, resources, and assets while making themselves scarier in the eyes of Paragon's citizens.

Gameplay-wise, a successful invasion basically encourages all those Vigilantes and Rogues to get their butts back Redside so they can be part of that bonus period.

I actually like this idea better than just "temporarily and arbitrarily turn on double rewards for a period of time", because it gives the players agency, and an incentive to run significant red side content. 

 

I don't necessarily like the idea of prompting the villains for "which zone do you want to attack", because we all know they're going to pick "Atlas Park" every time.  But I do like the idea of villains successfully completing a SF triggering an event on blue side.  The event could be random, or could correspond to a parallel zone as the SF in question.  For example, the Cap au Diable SF could trigger an event in Steel Canyon.

 

And granting double Inf rewards for villains during the event is a good incentive for playing redside and completing SFs on redside (instead of constantly grinding the same old blue side TFs).

 

[Muppy]

If this were to happen, I'd expect something from Blueside as well. I'm... not entirely sure how it'd be for them, but it'd trigger the same way as it would for Villains after they complete a TF. Not sure people would take it well if it was ONLY Redside. I love the Isles and I want more traffic there, but I also want some level of fairness for both sides. Safeguards for Heroes, Mayhems for Villains... so there would have to be something for Heroes to enjoy as well.

[Rathulfr]

1 minute ago, Muppy said:

If this were to happen, I'd expect something from Blueside as well. I'm... not entirely sure how it'd be for them, but it'd trigger the same way as it would for Villains after they complete a TF. Not sure people would take it well if it was ONLY Redside. I love the Isles and I want more traffic there, but I also want some level of fairness for both sides. Safeguards for Heroes, Mayhems for Villains... so there would have to be something for Heroes to enjoy as well.

There's always one.  "Did you bring enough for the whole class?"  NO, I DID NOT.  BITE ME. 😄

 

(I'm joking: please don't take offense.  I'm not disagreeing with you.)

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Rathulfr

[Muppy]

2 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

There's always one.  "Did you bring enough for the whole class?"  NO, I DID NOT.  BITE ME. 😄

*Cries as she gets a cupcake taken away from her...*

 

Seriously though, sorry if I'm being "one of those people". I just don't want a cluster of people getting upset cause one side got something cool.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Muppy

[ArchVileTerror]

I would suggest the Zones be vetted by the Devs first.  So, for example, Kings Row, Talos, and Brickstown are your choices.  Alternatively, only zones that can be selected as Hazard Zones.  Boomtown, Terra Volta, Perez Park.

It's workshoppable.

 

As for Heroes invading Villain zones . . . eh . . . they don't really need that, do they?

Besides, this idea of Villainous Invasions DOES give the Heroes something:  It gives them the chance to react to a threat and BE HEROES!  And earn some Badges in the process.

 

I mean, the WHOLE POINT is that Heroes have WAY MORE STUFF than Villains already.  This isn't giving something cool only to the Villains to spite the Heroes.  It's giving Villains something cool to CATCH UP with the Heroes.

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by ArchVileTerror
More context.

[Rathulfr]

3 minutes ago, Muppy said:

*Cries as she gets a cupcake taken away from her...*

 

Seriously though, sorry if I'm beingf "one of those people". I just don't want a cluster of people getting upset cause one side got something cool.

Yeah, and as we've seen with the recent attempt at a simple QoL change to allow for upgrading enhancements, people will bitch and moan about EVERYTHING, no matter how trivial.  I swear to gob, there's just no pleasing everybody.  Even if the devs plainly say, "Hey, this intended to make playing red side appealing," there will be at least 10 pages of whinging about how it's not "fair" to blue side.

 

(edit) The irony here is that I'm a blue side player, predominantly.  I don't like red side because it's depressing (and I have my own personal issues with that).  But I have played red side occasionally, and was even part of an active red side VG, for awhile.  But without additional incentives (like my friends playing red), I don't actively choose red side.

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Rathulfr

[Naraka]

48 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

While it sounds like a good idea at first glance, I doubt it will actually solve the problem.  What will happen is that we'll see a surge of Null the Gull Vigilantes that go slumming for double (quadruple) XP for a brief period of time, and then they'll all shift back to blue side when the period is over.

 

Even in its hey day, red side never appealed to most players.  It has always been significantly underpopulated, even in the best of times, right after CoV launched.  We all created our villains back then to check out the new content, and a few of us even got a few to 50.  Then later we all we went back to playing heroes, as usual.

 

Ehh, I'd rather you not talk for us.

 

If anything, the main reason I ended up going blue is because it's easier to get TFs.

 

I like redside plenty because I guess I'm one of those hipster centrists who like to get a taste of everything, see all sides of the coin.  I actually enjoyed it just fine having the ATs limited by heroes and villains and requiring going through some trials to convert.  Not saying we need that back, but I always felt people that whined about it were just extremely picky and always want to be catered to.  Same for people that "only" like blue for the nebulous reason of wanting to be a "hero" while they go vaporizing the faces off of bad guys and pretend they are "arresting" them.  If you can't be true to yourself, no need to go the extra mile to lie to me too lol

[ArchVileTerror]

Also, uh, @Apparition babe . . . can we, um, workshop the thread title?

 

I mean, I know we're villains.  We're evil!  But . . . dude.  I ain't THAT evil.

[Naraka]

45 minutes ago, ArchVileTerror said:

As said; yup.  Inf bonuses won't attract people interested in Redside.  It will attract people interested in Inf.

Sounds like a proper Rogue at least.

 

45 minutes ago, ArchVileTerror said:

I think the best way to incentivize people to be playing Redside is to give players the power to make an impact in the game world.

How about them dozens of purse robberies happening right in your heroes' faces and you don't do anything?

 

I think expecting Redside to have magical world-shifting mechanics is unrealistic and unreasonable.  

[Galaxy Brain]

6 minutes ago, Muppy said:

*Cries as she gets a cupcake taken away from her...*

 

Seriously though, sorry if I'm being "one of those people". I just don't want a cluster of people getting upset cause one side got something cool.

Heroes already got the cool stuff. Also, we're villains so we're used to not playing fair

[Muppy]

1 minute ago, ArchVileTerror said:

I would suggest the Zones be vetted by the Devs first.  So, for example, Kings Row, Talos, and Brickstown are your choices.  Alternatively, only zones that can be selected as Hazard Zones.  Boomtown, Terra Volta, Perez Park.

It's workshoppable.

 

As for Heroes invading Villain zones . . . eh . . . they don't really need that, do they?

Besides, this idea of Villainous Invasions DOES give the Heroes something:  It gives them the chance to react to a threat and BE HEROES!  And earn some Badges in the process.

I can agree with that... And when you say invasions, do you mean actual player characters swoop into the zone, or Rogues Gallery npcs start flooding the streets? Or just one somewhere around the city that can operate as a sort of GM?

 

1 minute ago, Rathulfr said:

Yeah, and as we've seen with the recent attempt at a simple QoL change to allow for upgrading enhancements, people will bitch and moan about EVERYTHING, no matter how trivial.  I swear to gob, there's just no pleasing everybody.  Even if the devs plainly say, "Hey, this intended to make playing red side appealing," there will be at least 10 pages of whinging about how it's not "fair" to blue side.

 

True... No one will be happy regardless. I'm one of those types who WANTS people to like what they get, but yeah... Blue side DOES get a lot of attention as it is with tons of people on it's side, so this might be just what Redside needs.

 

Just now, Galaxy Brain said:

Heroes already got the cool stuff. Also, we're villains so we're used to not playing fair

Hah, this is very true!

[Lines]

 

I think this is where the idea of invading paragon stemmed. It's such a cool idea.

 

I don't think baiting people over with rewards is the answer, but starting to build bridges through cause-and-effect between the two sides would go a long way, I think.

[MTeague]

I'm continually perplexed by how many people don't enjoy redside at all.  But in the end, I don't really *need* to understand it. 

Not their cup of tea, okay.  Nothing I can really do to change that.

 

Bribing people to play redside is either not going to work (not big enough bribe) or will be resented / percieved as unfair (too big a bribe).

 

I will say the many things that I enjoy about redside, and why I think people should give it more of a try than maybe they have in the past.

• Far more interesting architecture.  less glass-and-steel, more twisty-turney neighborhoods, tunnels where you might not expect them, etc.  
• Different and equally amusing billboards around town.
• NO "Filler" missions. That's right folks.  Everything's a story arc.  No "the Security Chief in Perez Park asked for you by name". or random "kill 50 carnies in peregrine island"
• yes, it starts out City of Lackeys, but it doesn't STAY that way.  As you level, the tone of the missions changes more and your character is treated with much more respect in the dialogue. 
• Mayhem missions.  ZOMG so much fun.  Really lets you /flex and feel your villain come into their own.  You are just Big Mean Stompy and all shall fall before you.
• Tip missions.  Much better villain / rogue flavoring. 

 

but people are gonna try it, or they won't. 

I don't think it merits developer action. 

This isn't something where loot drops are at stake or the whole game is designed around an equal number of red vs blue.

 

And heck, what about GOLDSIDE?

 

[Rathulfr]

5 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Ehh, I'd rather you not talk for us.

I never claimed to be talking for anyone but myself?

[ArchVileTerror]

I mean Zombie Invasion, but it's Gangers/Soldiers/Robots/Demons/et cetera*.  Depending on what the Team picks for their Trial.  A voting mechanic could be made using the tech we see in the Summer Blockbuster.  This isn't some magical impossible task.  It's all doable!   It will just take time, effort, a lot of bodies, and serious engagement from the playerbase to beta test the hell out of it.

 

* I'd suggest Wild Animals too  . . . buuuuut I recognize that one as too much of a hot-button.  Basically, though, any of the Mastermind Henchpet groups, as NPCs.  No actual direct player-Villain involvement in the Blueside Zones.

[Rathulfr]

Just now, ArchVileTerror said:

I mean Zombie Invasion, but it's Gangers/Soldiers/Robots/Demons/et cetera*.  Depending on what the Team picks for their Trial.  A voting mechanic could be made using the tech we see in the Summer Blockbuster.  This isn't some magical impossible task.  It's all doable!   It will just take time, effort, a lot of bodies, and serious engagement from the playerbase to beta test the hell out of it.

 

* I'd suggest Wild Animals too  . . . buuuuut I recognize that one as too much of a hot-button.  Basically, though, any of the Mastermind Henchpet groups, as NPCs.  No actual direct player-Villain involvement in the Blueside Zones.

Hell, I'd be happy with an Arachnos invasion, or any standard villain group, generated randomly.  We don't need to make it overly complicated.

 

[ArchVileTerror]

Sadly, Arachnos is balanced around level Tiers.  That would mean any Invasion in a low level zone would have Wolf Spiders, who are a breeze to knock down for Incarnates, while it would be nothing but insanity in high level zones, where low level players wouldn't be able to contribute so well.

 

Unless they made a Standardize Arachnos Group specifically for Invasion events?  That seems like a bit of work.

I think Henchpets with the first Upgrade applied are just the right difficulty for every level range.

[MTeague]

I admit, I would love to see a Hellion invasion of Founders Falls.  If the Hellions could you know, actually win, and not die in 2.5 milliseconds.

A Crey invasion could be interesting, too. 

Crey is one of those groups you just love to hate.  Allllllmost as good as 5th Column in that regard.

[Muppy]

2 minutes ago, ArchVileTerror said:

I mean Zombie Invasion, but it's Gangers/Soldiers/Robots/Demons/et cetera*.  Depending on what the Team picks for their Trial.  A voting mechanic could be made using the tech we see in the Summer Blockbuster.  This isn't some magical impossible task.  It's all doable!   It will just take time, effort, a lot of bodies, and serious engagement from the playerbase to beta test the hell out of it.

 

* I'd suggest Wild Animals too  . . . buuuuut I recognize that one as too much of a hot-button.  Basically, though, any of the Mastermind Henchpet groups, as NPCs.  No actual direct player-Villain involvement in the Blueside Zones.

Oh yeah, I can definitely get behind this! An invasion of goons or what have you is super cool.