Make alternative IO sets to Luck of the Gambler

[Galaxy Brain]

4 hours ago, reib said:

Perma hasten Is not really needed.

From what I gathered in my guide I linked prior, there are only about 35 powers that "need" perma hasten to be perma, of those 17 need beyond perma hasten.

 

Beyond that, 10 need recharge cap.

 

Out of the 136 long recharge powers w/ durations, 39 of them.cannot be perma thanks to the recharge cap leaving us with 97

 

45/97 = 46% of these powers require perma hasten or beyond to perma, but in the grand scheme that 45 count is small compared to the total number of powers 

[Troo]

9 hours ago, Zepp said:

It is not power creep, it is just increasing the variety of mules (basically). You would still only be able to slot 5 of them.

one can argue with truth until the cows come home, it is still truth.

 

the only way I'd be on board with proliferating the stand alone 7.5 luck of the gambler recharge bonus: combine it with all other 7.5% recharge bonuses.

 

I don't want that so, I would prefer not to entertain this.

[Indystruck]

5 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

The term mule is really inaccurate. Are people taking Hover just to put an LOTG special in? Combat jumping? How about Invisibility, or Leaderships def toggle and vengeance? I know every one of those powers gets used actively even if my build doesnt focus on global recharge or has hasten or not.

 

Yes, people do that.  Especially things like Vengeance which doesn't see much use in late game content but can still take an LotG 7.5% without really sacrificing effectiveness, or dabbling into Concealment to get some utility while also buffing recharge. In short, "mule" is very accurate.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Indystruck

[Zepp]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

one can argue with truth until the cows come home, it is still truth.

 

the only way I'd be on board with proliferating the stand alone 7.5 luck of the gambler recharge bonus: combine it with all other 7.5% recharge bonuses.

 

I don't want that so, I would prefer not to entertain this.

The discussion here has been quite clear, this thread is about having other options for the LotG buff, not expanding it beyond 5.

 

Also, nerfing set bonus recharge buffs is in line with the expanded discussion of how terrible an idea nerfing hasten is.

 

No nerfs, just expanding options.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Zepp

[Haijinx]

8 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

The term mule is really inaccurate. Are people taking Hover just to put an LOTG special in? Combat jumping? How about Invisibility, or Leaderships def toggle and vengeance? I know every one of those powers gets used actively even if my build doesnt focus on global recharge or has hasten or not.

I have a EA stalker that has both Stealth and Overload as mules for LOTG 

 

Don't really need them for anything else.  

 

But that's cool, It let me have 2 more slots for the powers I do use. 

 

# of Slots > # of Powers in value imo 

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

12 hours ago, Indystruck said:

 

Yes, people do that.  Especially things like Vengeance which doesn't see much use in late game content but can still take an LotG 7.5% without really sacrificing effectiveness, or dabbling into Concealment to get some utility while also buffing recharge. In short, "mule" is very accurate.

If a power is seeing use for its primary function such as stealth/invis for avoiding combat, or vengeance which yes is situational but still gets used  for its main purpose a buff when an ally goes down, then even if they are also being used for LOTG specials doesnt suddenly shift them to mule status. A mule would bea  power that never gets used at all beyond being a slot for the specials.

 

And frankly I see plenty of opportunity in high end play for vengeance. I see folks eating dirt all the time on tin  mage/apex, LGs, and even ITFs because so often you get leveling lowbies alongside guys who are going to push at speeds that get the levelers overwhelmed veng is often the buff that helps keep levelers on their feet when one drops. I also find brutes often bite off more then they chew and become veng bait by default.

 

Hell I get plenty of use on veng that I tend to fit it into many of my builds and tend to feel its lack on builds I dont take it on. And sure it is a great power for the lotg special because you dont really have to slot up veng for it to be plenty useful as its base buff is pretty substantial. It can also take a PF for extra blue which is nice as well.

[Indystruck]

The power is getting picked for its ability to mule the LotG, and then the situational use is incidental. That would make it a "mule" power. You can use it, but you aren't expecting to. It's like going Kick or Punch/Tough/Weave and then using kick or punch to mule Kinetic Combat. You -can- use it, yes, but you aren't taking it because it's a great power, you're taking it because you wanted a place to squeeze out some extra defense.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

19 minutes ago, Indystruck said:

The power is getting picked for its ability to mule the LotG, and then the situational use is incidental. That would make it a "mule" power. You can use it, but you aren't expecting to. It's like going Kick or Punch/Tough/Weave and then using kick or punch to mule Kinetic Combat. You -can- use it, yes, but you aren't taking it because it's a great power, you're taking it because you wanted a place to squeeze out some extra defense.

Says you, I love the attacks from fighting, and pretty much dont care about tough and weave at all. Any good front liner doesnt need their paltry boosts. but cross punch is awesome!

[Indystruck]

Well, yes, says me, I thought that was apparent and didn't need a billboard advertising as such. 

[Zepp]

I would argue there are soft mules and hard mules.

 

A soft mule is a power you get for the IO slot, but then use - if you would not have picked up the power if it weren't for the IO.

A hard mule is a power you get for the IO slot and never use.

 

Furthermore, just because you use it, doesn't mean other players do. I have picked up Vengeance for the LotG mule in the past on a toon that only solos. Definitely never going to use that power, but I needed an extra LotG.

[SeraphimKensai]

I am all for build diversity. Personally I'm a min/maxer and like making builds. That said, I usually don't need to prioritize global recharge too much unless I'm on a Dominator ( I make all my Dominators Permadoms, it's just what I've done since IO's first came out to help my 1st villain Ravenscar a Grav/Fire Domi).

 

Hasten used to be a must have 6 slot power, as back in the day 6 slotting with recharge SO's would be enough to go perma-hasten. Then it became a  3 slotter after ED, and a 2 slotter after EB's. So with all the game changes we've inadvertently freed up 4 slots from Hasten.

 

That said with IO bonuses it's not uncommon to hit several +5%, +6.25%, +7.5%, or even +10% bonuses. But each are limited by the rule of five of the same.

 

The issue with the global 7.5% 1 IO bonus, is that it is limited to a defense IO, so it shows bias towards defense builds which can slot the IO in a multitude of powers.

 

This forces non defense based characters who want to slot that IO for it's benefit to chase defense pool based powers: Combat Jumping, Hover, Afterburner, Stealth, Grant Invis, Invis, Weave, Manuvers, Vengeance.

 

So non defense based characters are essentially drawn to Leaping, Flight, Concealment, Leadership, and Fighting. It reduces build variety as some might otherwise be drawn to another pool like medicine, presence, teleport, etc.

 

So wouldn't it be practical in effort to reduce bias to have a +7.5% recharge bonus IO be available in another category as well. I would suggest if that were to be the case though to avoid running/jumping to avoid the power creep of someone just slotting them all in the prestige sprints. And for those that don't know, yes a 7.5% recharge bonus in say a sleep set, wouldn't allow you to slot 2 in sleeps, and 5 in defense to get 7*7.5%, you're still limited by the rule of five.

 

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Zepp]

It would depend on implementation as to whether it was considered the same as LotG (although most in this thread agree that it should be considered the same as LotG). Just a note, Universal travel does not slot into prestige sprints, so my proposed route (Uni. Travel & Uni. Damage) would allow for a broad variety of builds.

 

The other path (Res & Heal) is also a good idea, but it still favors melee toons & Sentinels, who tend to need recharge less than Fenders, Trollers, & Doms.

[Indystruck]

Put it in a new universal damage set, maybe.

[Obus Form]

On 4/11/2020 at 5:53 PM, Major_Decoy said:

I agree. I suggest a resistance set, a heal set, and a to hit debuff set.

 

Ruck of the Rambler

 

Tuck of the Tumbler

 

Lick of the Gimbler

Rick of the Rolling

[Obus Form]

Why not.....?

 

Haste of the Recharging

 

Recharge of the Speeding

 

Speed of the Hasting

 

Rush of the Hour

[tidge]

On 4/12/2020 at 7:01 AM, Bentley Berkeley said:

The term mule is really inaccurate. Are people taking Hover just to put an LOTG special in? Combat jumping? How about Invisibility, or Leaderships def toggle and vengeance? I know every one of those powers gets used actively even if my build doesnt focus on global recharge or has hasten or not.

I have toons with that use Hover, CJ, Grant Invisibility, Invisibility slotted with LoTG at level 49. I play a lot of content below level 40, so in that sense the powers are literally chosen to take advantage of the Global effect of the slotted IO. I have other toons that take and slot those powers at lower levels for flavor reasons, however the (travel) powers taken at low levels are likely to be slotted with a Universal Travel IO otherwise those pool powers taken above level 20 will almost always have a LoTG.

[tidge]

21 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

So wouldn't it be practical in effort to reduce bias to have a +7.5% recharge bonus IO be available in another category as well. I would suggest if that were to be the case though to avoid running/jumping to avoid the power creep of someone just slotting them all in the prestige sprints. And for those that don't know, yes a 7.5% recharge bonus in say a sleep set, wouldn't allow you to slot 2 in sleeps, and 5 in defense to get 7*7.5%, you're still limited by the rule of five.

I apologize for my lazy search-fu, but Sleep seems like a particularly biased choice as I'm not aware of which Power/Epic/Patron pools are available to all ATs that can slot Sleep IOs. This is a very different situation than Defense (or Travel or Attack power) IOs. AFAIK, Stun or Knockback would have been more applicable choices with less bias.

 

I know that it is practically pro forma to be perma-Haten on the Presence Pool, but that pool allows slotting of Fear, Taunt, Healing, and End Mod IOs. Both Fear and Taunt are available to be slotted in 'first pick' powers, and both Fear and Taunt have fewer IO set choices than Sleep (and Defense, obv.) This is one of the (many) reasons I evangelize for the creation of (at least) a fifth (PVP or Purple) set for each of them. Personally I wouldn't want a 6th piece in either hypothetical set to be Global Recharge, but one of the set bonuses would presumably be a Global Recharge bonus.

[SeraphimKensai]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

I apologize for my lazy search-fu, but Sleep seems like a particularly biased choice as I'm not aware of which Power/Epic/Patron pools are available to all ATs that can slot Sleep IOs. This is a very different situation than Defense (or Travel or Attack power) IOs. AFAIK, Stun or Knockback would have been more applicable choices with less bias.

 

I know that it is practically pro forma to be perma-Haten on the Presence Pool, but that pool allows slotting of Fear, Taunt, Healing, and End Mod IOs. Both Fear and Taunt are available to be slotted in 'first pick' powers, and both Fear and Taunt have fewer IO set choices than Sleep (and Defense, obv.) This is one of the (many) reasons I evangelize for the creation of (at least) a fifth (PVP or Purple) set for each of them. Personally I wouldn't want a 6th piece in either hypothetical set to be Global Recharge, but one of the set bonuses would presumably be a Global Recharge bonus.

Oh I by no means was necessarily suggesting only sleep, just tossed it out as a variable placeholder. We could have multiple categories covered.

 

But I saw discussion of a new universal damage set, and if a proc in that potential set was a global 7.5% then that might be the way to go over all as every set has some damage components giving them equal footing to potentially slot such a proc. Doing so might very well minimize the potential slotting bias. 

 

Which might help serve to free up some power choices for people and increase potential build diversity (Although I think there's a lot of agreement in other posts that a lot of the pool powers could use a good once over).

[BrandX]

On 4/7/2020 at 2:47 PM, EyeLuvBooks said:

What I would like to see is all of the 'junk sets removed from the game entirely or have them upgraded so they're actually worth having.

 

How about an alternate to LotG with +Rech for Resistance sets?

 

How about a couple of sets that are 7% or 6.5% instead of 7.5%? That way the players who don't want to farm for Inf don't have to drop 5-7 million on the LotG?

 

We have -KB on Defense AND Resist sets so we have lots of alternatives there, why not have alternatives for the others?

 

I'd settle for a Healing buff smaller than Numina's or Miracles because I'm an altaholic. If I can outfit ALL my characters with less expensive IOs then I'm good with that. As it is now, you're looking at hundreds of millions for ONE character.

 

Why are there so many junk sets? I understand that some rarer sets are better and that's how it SHOULD be but why not have an alternative to Crushing Impact that gives a 4% +Recharge for s 5-piece set?

 

I dislike the idea that there are a dozen or so pieces that everyone wants and the rest are vendor trash. I think that the game would run better and the players would be better off with less junk.

 

You don't need to farm for influence to getr 5-7 million on the LotG.  I get all these without farming.  I get them for running the content.  TFs, missions, whatever I want.  I don't generally farm anything.  Unless running TFs has suddenly become farming 😛

 

Play the game, build up to awesome builds.